What was the point of Force Techs, exactly?

[Jefffcore]

There were no holds on the ground in DOA4. In DOA4 the situation was worse because there was a frame where you COULDN'T hold when you were forced up.

You should try playing some other fighting games. Though, if you don't like losing control of your character, maybe you shouldn't play fighting games.... I like being rewarded for things and having to think, as oppose to playing a shallow guessing game.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Force teching isn't going anywhere so this discussion is pointless. Unless people just want an open forum where they can whine publicly then by all means continue.

Oh I'm gonna use Blaze's hilarious comparison from now on, Helena Queen of the Puppy Kickers!

 

[SilverKhaos]

I'm Rikuto summed it up pretty well.

If a man comes at me with a knife he clearly has to ability to overpower me. In the end I have to beat his ass to kill him or he will kill me in a few swipes possibly one stab. If I happen to have a good enough offense to knock him down and get the knife away from him (i.e. breaking his arm, hitting the pressure point to release his grip, KOing him on the ground) I will take that chance.

Now what use would it do me to leave him on the ground when I obviously hit him hard and he didn't scratch me yet? The situation resets and now I'm kill bait again.

Same with DOA. JL has the opportunity to kill Helena in a few good guesses (in a best case scenario, 2). If she gets her offense going, why would she let him start up if she's knocked him down? Here's the thing as well, the mix-ups on wake up aren't really that hard to deal with...

Forced Techs aren't hard to deal with either. The only reason it's harder to cope with some other character's forced techs after the fact is because of them having better guard breaks, offensive holds (Lei) and the duck being a bit too slow.

You should really take advantage of this tactic because you've got a false sense of honor in this. These are fights not sparring matches for a kids karate class.

1) If you've knocked him on the ground, then you've beat him into the ground. You already beat his ass. but if you get start trying to kick him while he's down, he'll probably still knife you for being dumb enough to get that close.

slightly off topic, but a "knife" does not equal "obviously has the ability to overpower" anymore than long fingernails do. Its just a sharp utensil that is nothing more than an additional hazard, not a gamebreaking advantage.

2) Force techs can't be "dealt with", that's the entire concept. The only real option (unless i'm mistaken, in which case feel free to elaborate) is to never get knocked down.

3) "false sense of honor"? What? It's just not fun to beat on someone who can't do anything about it. And this is a videogame, it's supposed to be FUN.

 

[SilverKhaos]

I like being rewarded for things and having to think, as oppose to playing a shallow guessing game.

lol, if that were really the case then you would be against things like this as well.

 

[SilverKhaos]

Most force tech situations can be avoided by tech rolling. Not all but most.

I know, but I play online lol. tech rolling isn't always a valid option.

But beyond that, it shouldn't be the ONLY option. I mean, the way it is now, they might as well have just taken out the ability to be knocked to the ground, entirely.

 

[Gruff757]

1) If you've knocked him on the ground, then you've beat him into the ground. You already beat his ass. but if you get start trying to kick him while he's down, he'll probably still knife you for being dumb enough to get that close.

slightly off topic, but a "knife" does not equal "obviously has the ability to overpower" anymore than long fingernails do. Its just a sharp utensil that is nothing more than an additional hazard, not a gamebreaking advantage.

2) Force techs can't be "dealt with", that's the entire concept. The only real option (unless i'm mistaken, in which case feel free to elaborate) is to never get knocked down.

Manually Tech yourself so that you "dont lose control of your character"

3) "false sense of honor"? What? It's just not fun to beat on someone who can't do anything about it. And this is a videogame, it's supposed to be FUN.

I dunno, beating the crap out of the opponent, in a game designed to do just that, seems fun to me.

 

[Jefffcore]

But you can do something about it: you can not get knocked down (or knock them down first), or guess properly to get out when you're forced up. The concept is to not have to deal with the real broken mechanic: wake up kicks. If I guess right and knock you down, I shouldn't be at disadvantage.

You play to win, or you play to have fun. If it's not fun to play the way it's meant to be played, don't play.

lol, if that were really the case then you would be against things like this as well.

Guessing isn't thinking.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

1) If you've knocked him on the ground, then you've beat him into the ground. You already beat his ass. but if you get start trying to kick him while he's down, he'll probably still knife you for being dumb enough to get that close.

slightly off topic, but a "knife" does not equal "obviously has the ability to overpower" anymore than long fingernails do. Its just a sharp utensil that is nothing more than an additional hazard, not a gamebreaking advantage.

2) Force techs can't be "dealt with", that's the entire concept. The only real option (unless i'm mistaken, in which case feel free to elaborate) is to never get knocked down.

3) "false sense of honor"? What? It's just not fun to beat on someone who can't do anything about it. And this is a videogame, it's supposed to be FUN.

No.3) So clearly you never do air combo's then right? There is nothing they can do about it after all it's only fair! When someone breaks Mila's takedown you let them go right? You have a huge advantage so that would be game breaking too right?

Beating up on someone who can't retaliate isn't fun? So you never attack after landing a sit down stun then?

There is so many hypocritical things in what you are saying.

 

[SilverKhaos]

but the thing is, in a fighting game, keeping the opponent's back off the ground, preventing them from running to a wake up kick and making them defend against your shenanigans is the same as keeping the opponent on the ground and dealing with your fury in real life. You are giving them the choice to take a licking or lock up and defend.

Except in a real fight they have the choice of taking a licking or locking up and defending, as you said. With Force teching, there's no latter option, its just "take a licking".

In a real fight, when someone is knocked to the ground, the attacker has two options: 1) Attack them while they are down, and risk being counterattacked. Or 2) Let the opponent try to get up, then punish them when they retaliate.

The main rule behind a fight is "don't make the first move", and in an actual fight the "one person is on the ground" situation is a perfect example of that.

 

[Jefffcore]

Video games =/= to real life. Stop comparing them!

 

[SilverKhaos]

But you can do something about it: you can not get knocked down (or knock them down first), or guess properly to get out when you're forced up. The concept is to not have to deal with the real broken mechanic: wake up kicks. If I guess right and knock you down, I shouldn't be at disadvantage.

You play to win, or you play to have fun. If it's not fun to play the way it's meant to be played, don't play.


Guessing isn't thinking.

Not a whole lot of thinking behind "low poke and they lose control", either.

Also, how the hell are wakeup kicks "broken"? If you can't block or counter them, just back the hell up so they don't reach you. That's nowhere NEAR "broken".

And if you've knocked me down..you already won that little skirmish. You don't need any more advantage than that.

 

[dawnbringer]

The concept is to not have to deal with the real broken mechanic: wake up kicks.

It's good even without taking wake-up kicks into account. Because forced wake-up, if executed successfully, gives major frame advantage to attacker and forces opponent into state in which real damage can be dealt. (You cannot do a lot of damage to grounded opponent.)

 

[Rikuto]

Silver why don't you just admit that you don't want there to be consequences for anything you fuck up on?

Because that's pretty much the only thing you ever ask for.

 

[Jefffcore]

Not a whole lot of thinking behind "low poke and they lose control", either.

In any other game, you lose control the moment you get hit. Just sayin'. It means you have to play defense, it means you have to work harder, it means you need to know what their options are, etc, etc. Getting hit in DOA is a slap in a lot of cases, and then you don't know what's gonna happen.

Also, how the hell are wakeup kicks "broken"? If you can't block or counter them, just back the hell up so they don't reach you. That's nowhere NEAR "broken".

Because if I knock you down, there's no logical reason I should be at disadvantage. If I knock you down stairs, I shouldn't be forced to guess what wake up kick you're gonna do when you're on the ground.

And if you've knocked me down..you already won that little skirmish. You don't need any more advantage than that.

One his is no damage, and promotes more guessing.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

This thread was funny earlier, now it's just sad.

 

[Gruff757]

Except in a real fight they have the choice of taking a licking or locking up and defending, as you said. With Force teching, there's no latter option, its just "take a licking".

In a real fight, when someone is knocked to the ground, the attacker has two options: 1) Attack them while they are down, and risk being counterattacked. Or 2) Let the opponent try to get up, then punish them when they retaliate.

The main rule behind a fight is "don't make the first move", and in an actual fight the "one person is on the ground" situation is a perfect example of that.

are you not holding block when they FT you?????

 

[SilverKhaos]

Silver why don't you just admit that you don't want there to be consequences for anything you fuck up on?

Because that's pretty much the only thing you ever ask for.

It's funny, because that's mostly what you want lol. Most of your responses to these kinds of things are basically "I want to be able to have a constant offense with no risk of interruption or retaliation regardless of how reckless it is".

All I want, on the other hand, is balance.

 

[SilverKhaos]

are you not holding block when they FT you?????

I am, but they just grab, etc.

I'm just irritated by the sheer audacity that they can control my character at that point, not me.

 

[Rikuto]

No, you want a way out of fucking up that doesn't require the use of intelligent thought.

I want to be rewarded for the neutral game which requires a ton of intelligent thought.

 

[Yaguar]

We should turn this into a compassion thread. Fill it with hearts and rainbows. I'll start.

I respect everyone's opinions but I must disagree. I like the wake up kick mechanic because it allows me to force my opponent into a little trap. If they block my attack then I feel like I should reward them with a cookie for not being silly and trying to strike me whilst I have a frame advantage.

If they happen to force wake me up and hit me then that was my own silly fault and I wont get a cookie... But they are nice people so they let me have a cookie anyway, pat me on the head and tell me I'll get it next time, don't worry.

/Compassion.