RhythmikDesigns
Active Member
Most force tech situations can be avoided by tech rolling. Not all but most.
What was the point of Force Techs, exactly?
- Thread starter SilverKhaos
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Blazeincarnated
Well-Known Member
At least let the muthafucka get up! It just doesnt sound honorable, but maybe thats just me..
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Honor is a fictitious load of crap that has no place in fighting games.
Get that nonsense out of your head. If you simply let somebody get up there would be point in knocking them down in the first place. If you were to just let them get up and do whatever they wanted it wouldn't be a fighting game, it would be a turn-based RPG.
dawnbringer
Active Member
Strikes do only 30% of their damage on downed opponents (with exceptions). There's no way to re-launch downed opponent. It means that a very damaging sweep that does 40 points of damage will only do 12 points on downed opponent, like a jab.
Simply lying there and eating minor damage, waiting for opportunities, is a decent way to defend. Forced wake-up options counter that.
Simply lying there and eating minor damage, waiting for opportunities, is a decent way to defend. Forced wake-up options counter that.
as a person who has the same mentality as you i can see what you mean, however going easy on someone is just as cruel actually more so in my opinion.if you want to get any better its something you have to get passed
Sorry if you took that out of context Blaze, but ego's got nothing to do with what I posted. But it definitely helps when you learn when and how to consistently work force techs in your favor to make that comeback (or ground grabs that give frame advantage or extra damage for some).
It may not be a "Level-3-X-Factor-Wesker-Mahvel" kind of comeback, but it's something to keep the opponent guessing wrong in your favor, as opposed to letting the opponent make you play his/her game and resetting the whole situation of the hard work you put in trying to get in. Picture it like watching a good yuri hentai manga fanfiction between two chicks you always wanted to see get it on, only to have it ruined by having unwanted males interfering at "the good part". Nobody likes to get robbed.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
God, I would hate to think of how Helena would cope without the ability to avoid wake up kicks, especially seeing as she didn't get buffed in the patch... sends shivers down my spine just thinking about it.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
It was a generalisation, some lousy mid punch, mid punch, mid punch strings becoming safe from non grappler's doesn't mean much. Being able to CB from BKO doesn't make her any better as a character. But she does get +1 on 236P+K now lol
Every character I read about got new sit down stuns, new feint stuns, faster pokes, damage increases, more frame advantage and so on. I wouldn't call what she got buff's, especially with what other characters got. Fuck, the top tiers buff's are better than hers and their nerf's aren't even that bad.
Helena's +13 sit down stuns desperately needed improvement to make her a real DOA5 character but she didn't get it. Reading how so many characters got new sit down stuns and got their old ones improved kinda pisses me off.
Anyway I'm off topic so I'll leave it at that.
Chaos
Well-Known Member
That's another reason why people gets so irritated when they're fighting against Helena.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
People get frustrated because they don't have a clue how it works and simply cry "broken" before they even experiment with how to deal with it. I can get out of it just fine so I see no reason why other people shouldn't be able to.
Then again I've had people say it's cheap to do air combo's in DOA seeing as there is no way to get out of it so I guess people will complain regardless.
I have to laugh at comparing force teching to beating a defenceless puppy. That is so over dramatic what a retarded thing to say.
Back to whining about how underpowered the frame-data slaves think Helena is?
Even without her force tech crap she has great stun-delay potential and good mix-up, meaning that even sans FT-BS she can abuse the guessing game of DOA better than most and it actually makes her quite formidable.
Helena's stupid force-tech should have been nerfed, and slight buffs should have been assigned to some of her non-BKO strings. That's it.
Even without her force tech crap she has great stun-delay potential and good mix-up, meaning that even sans FT-BS she can abuse the guessing game of DOA better than most and it actually makes her quite formidable.
Helena's stupid force-tech should have been nerfed, and slight buffs should have been assigned to some of her non-BKO strings. That's it.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
Okay, apologies for the hostilities earlier. I took the chance to get some sleep.
Anyways, if I recall, I used to be able to counter while on the ground in DOA4, making it so Force Techs were a non-issue. At the very least, I distinctly remember countering people TRYING to kick me while I was down.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
In a real fight i'd want them to STAY DOWN, and I wouldn't be able to FORCE them to get up.
Vie du Soleil
Member
Well I'll disagree with the OP's opinion on force teching. It actually doesn't work nearly as well as everyone thinks it does. As someone else mentioned nothing is guaranteed from the FT it only introduces a guessing situation where Helena has enough advantage to get the first attack if she guesses right. To go further the FT mix up game is VERY situational and I for one won't try it outside of a few choice situations. Helena has a great knock back move for juggle ending and has almost as many options when running up to an opponent. Finally I'll say that tech rolling, while still leaving the defender at disadvantage, is remains very viable. Helena has tools for each situation but not for both if that makes sense. If you tech or don't tech and she's not expecting it her follow-ups will often whiff.
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
If a man comes at me with a knife he clearly has to ability to overpower me. In the end I have to beat his ass to kill him or he will kill me in a few swipes possibly one stab. If I happen to have a good enough offense to knock him down and get the knife away from him (i.e. breaking his arm, hitting the pressure point to release his grip, KOing him on the ground) I will take that chance.
Now what use would it do me to leave him on the ground when I obviously hit him hard and he didn't scratch me yet? The situation resets and now I'm kill bait again.
Same with DOA. JL has the opportunity to kill Helena in a few good guesses (in a best case scenario, 2). If she gets her offense going, why would she let him start up if she's knocked him down? Here's the thing as well, the mix-ups on wake up aren't really that hard to deal with...
Forced Techs aren't hard to deal with either. The only reason it's harder to cope with some other character's forced techs after the fact is because of them having better guard breaks, offensive holds (Lei) and the duck being a bit too slow.
You should really take advantage of this tactic because you've got a false sense of honor in this. These are fights not sparring matches for a kids karate class.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
Um, no...a consistent offense is supposed to be the hard part in a fight. Not "okay I can't control my character after being knocked down". Coming back should be easy, its why people don't just rush in, in a real fight.
Can make all the excuses you want, its still BS with no real justifiable reason to be in a fighting game beyond "give offensive players a Kid Mode so they don't have to be careful".
Getting hit so hard you go to the ground is the consequence. Being lightly tapped on the ground then losing control of your character as they get up and set themselves for another hit without your input isn't a "consequence". Thats just BS that has no legitimate place in a fighting game.
Now, as for me, to clarify....i couldn't care less if I win or lose. It's when I don't get to even PLAY that I call BS, like with Force Techs.
Its infuriating because this is a videogame. I should not be losing control of my character. Ever. As bad as they are, at least with juggles, its just an issue of "can't do anything". But with THIS? My character is now actively performing normally controllable actions that I in no way did any input for. That's COMPLETE BS.
It's not like ground bouncing, or being knocked back, those are (vaguely) acceptable ways to maneuver your opponent. But just a kick to someone on the ground and their character goes on autopilot to stand back up? No, there is NO excuse for that.
RhythmikDesigns
Active Member
So why not just tech roll to avoid the force tech?
but the thing is, in a fighting game, keeping the opponent's back off the ground, preventing them from running to a wake up kick and making them defend against your shenanigans is the same as keeping the opponent on the ground and dealing with your fury in real life. You are giving them the choice to take a licking or lock up and defend.
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