Rikuto
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It completely justifies it. Why should I have to spread lies about a game so you can feel better at night?
To hell with that, I'm the one stuck actually playing this game. You haven't the right.
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It completely justifies it. Why should I have to spread lies about a game so you can feel better at night?
To hell with that, I'm the one stuck actually playing this game. You haven't the right.
Mailifang
Well-Known Member
We as in the community as a whole.Its everyone. Not just the competitive players or the casuals.Its everyone. I have been playing the DOA series since it debuted back in 96. I've been playing the game before a competitive scene even existed.If anyone has something to say about the state of the series whether its the game play or the community it is me and others who been fans and players of the series ever since it started. So I have done my part as a consumer of DOA as a product.As well as played the game and organized offline tournaments. I can't speak for everyone else, but how people play and enjoy a game is up to them. They paid the money they play the game in whatever fashion they see fit. I wish more people would attend offline events.But why should they when Its own high level community hates on the game as well as the majority of the fan base. DOA as series doesn't just belong to your or the high level community.It belongs to everyone who enjoys the games.
Tourneys don't mean shit as far as keeping a game's financial sustainability in terms of appeasing its fan base. And the DOA high level offline community should be happy that Team ninja is even paying attention to what you guys have to say.Companies really don't owe the players anything but a thank you for supporting our game. Far as I'm concerned Team Ninja is just "Glad Handing" you guys when it comes to hearing your suggestions. In the end it is there game,they made it, they choose how they game plays. You either like it or you don't.
Sam Sultan
Active Member
Take it easy there nobody wants you do to anything certainly not spreading any lies around also it is not something that you can do since it's a game accessible for everyone and thus even if you lie one can very easily check if it's true or not. I merely suggested that promoting the positive aspects of the game(facts) would help building the community and might be the way to go instead of only focusing on telling everybody about the negative aspects of the game and how bad the game is.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
This website is for competitive players. It was made with that idea, specifically, in mind. I don't care about casuals.
Mailifang
Well-Known Member
I know the games roots. The game still has its roots. Only problem is that some of you guys want to make the game something more than what it is. Every other FGC community doesn't have this issue. You guys want DOA 3.1. DOA 3.1 while good was an aberration that only handful of players played. Team Ninja seems adamant that they do not want the game to play that way. And since so few of the DOA community has played it the only ones that care are the ones who had. Which isn't very many.
The DOA high level competitive scene is so small yet vocal enough to get Team ninjas attention.And that's a good thing.Yet you guys got to realize you are not the end all be all authority on how the game should play. As soon as you guys start trying to get the community to come together as a whole and stop hating on it and the game, maybe the DOA community will get big enough to where Team Ninja will have no choice but to make drastic changes because financially its the smart thing to do.
Sam Sultan
Active Member
This website is only for competitive players really? Where does it say that it is? I would say this website is for everyone trying to learn the game or just talk about it with fellow gamers. If this is not the case then this website should have some kind of warning which says that only competitive players are allowed to sign up.
Mailifang
Well-Known Member
Well that's you and that's the problem. Most other FGC sites don't have this stigma. Your a competitive player that likes playing the game in tornaments with the comraderie and cash payouts.But if the fans casuals were not supporting it you wouldn't have a game to play or people to even debate with over this issue. DOA was called Dead or Alive for a reason. Tecmo was about to fold until Itagaki created this series. And the rest is history. Sometimes I wish we were like the american VF community. They just want to play the game. In the VF community all this casual and competitive bullshit doesn't matter. Just support and play your game.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
No one is actively going around for the express purpose of telling other communities to avoid DOA 5 (besides Tom Brady who doesn't even reside here).
You see this page?
http://teamninja-studio.com/doa5/imaf/
There I am, on the official website. Supporting the game.
Did you see me hosting the IPL stream for DOA 5 during all three days of E3, and at Hot Import Nights? Supporting the game.
Hell, I'm in the game's credits for Pete's sake.
So let me explain something to you. If I am telling you that there is something very, very fundamentally wrong with your game, guess what? There is. And I've earned the right to say it.
No, that's the website. You can come here to learn if you are not competitive, but learning does not entail arguing with the people who are actually playing the game competitively. It doesn't matter where you did this, you would get the same reaction.
CFW
Well-Known Member
Yeah because me not liking it and saying I don't like it is me being butthurt. ok. Because having an opinion about it is whining. That totally makes sense.
I'm kinda over you saying that I'm whining when you're the one whining about people whining. Bye.
Mailifang
Well-Known Member
This site is catered towards competitive players.But they are open enough to allow DOA players to join even though they can't stand most of them.Not all competitive players feel this way though.You got to realize that these players only care about the game play and excelling at it at a competitive level.Preferably offline play. Their goal of educating the DOA community on the game and getting playes to play offline is good.Its just they're attitude going about it can come off as very intimidating. They have their reasons behind this behavior. As a DOA fan or player you become ill tempered over the amount of bullshit this game gets from the est of the FGC.
-Clearly you do not. Such a statement would have never been made from you knowing the history of the series. We want the game to go back to its solid foundation. Infact, the past couple of games were less Doa than what they previously were. You are 100% incorrect when stating other parts of the FGC did not go through this. VF community did it with VF3, and the series went back to its Vf2 roots with Vf4. The TK community bitched about TK4, and TK5 was more to their liking. The Street fighter Community bitched about SF3, and they went back to more or less back to SF2 type of play
-You have not fully grasped the scope of the situation. No one here wants another Doa3.1. Doa3.1 is merely a reference we go to because it is the most solid Doa to date. It should also be noted that All the doa's leading up to Doa3.1 share many of the same solid elements that form a solid foundation. One not need to play 3.1, to get an understanding. Since you have not spoken directly with Team Ninja, you personally do not know the reasons why they did not take that route completely. I and several others have, and its definitely not because they were adamant about making the game more competitive.
-This portion right here is quite funny. Who did you asked that stated they cannot stand new players?
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Half the function of this website is for existing competitive players to congregate and talk about the game and events.
The other half of its function is to educate new players and prospective community members.
Accommodations have been made so that both of these pools of individuals can BS with each other and talk about other things as well.
At no point in its design, however, were casuals coming in and arguing with established players about the game part of its intended design. This is the part that sounds intimidating, but I have to ask... why is it so intimidating to simply not lecture about things you don't understand and are not a part of yet?
Are we so lax in the world with our free speech that having the responsibility of not spreading misinformation is too much to bare? Would you go into class and start lecturing your teachers about a subject you are unfamiliar with? If not, then why do people insist on doing it here?
The other half of its function is to educate new players and prospective community members.
Accommodations have been made so that both of these pools of individuals can BS with each other and talk about other things as well.
At no point in its design, however, were casuals coming in and arguing with established players about the game part of its intended design. This is the part that sounds intimidating, but I have to ask... why is it so intimidating to simply not lecture about things you don't understand and are not a part of yet?
Are we so lax in the world with our free speech that having the responsibility of not spreading misinformation is too much to bare? Would you go into class and start lecturing your teachers about a subject you are unfamiliar with? If not, then why do people insist on doing it here?
Sam Sultan
Active Member
Yes i have seen you support those events and i think it is good what you do like i said before.
On another note having an opinion about the game or a vision for the game is a right everybody has as a fan of DOA games and part of the DOA community competitive or not competitive . You might view it from a competitive point of view and want the game to be different than maybe a casual player or other also competitive players who just got other idea's for the game that is your right sir and you are entitled to it as is every body else. If the vision you have for the game was the way to go for everybody im sure TN would have implemented your suggestions in to the game and made it better. But since not the same opinion is shared by everybody they can't just neglect the one side while giving the other side what they want so they just stick to what they think is best for the game or rather for their wallet.
On another note having an opinion about the game or a vision for the game is a right everybody has as a fan of DOA games and part of the DOA community competitive or not competitive . You might view it from a competitive point of view and want the game to be different than maybe a casual player or other also competitive players who just got other idea's for the game that is your right sir and you are entitled to it as is every body else. If the vision you have for the game was the way to go for everybody im sure TN would have implemented your suggestions in to the game and made it better. But since not the same opinion is shared by everybody they can't just neglect the one side while giving the other side what they want so they just stick to what they think is best for the game or rather for their wallet.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
To have an opinion you have to understand that which you are forming an opinion about. Otherwise, it's not an opinion. It's ignorance.
I take exception to people who allow the spread of ignorance. It does nothing but waste people's time in a parasitic fashion. I think I'm going to have to have a little chat with Mr. Wah and Cyber about solving that problem soon.
Mailifang
Well-Known Member
Hmm I'll give you the VF 3 and TK4 arguments. But that was over 10 to 12 yrs ago.And it just proves my point of how drastic changes can alienate a fan base. The SF3 argument only goes so far because while the SF community did bitch about it. It wasn't until years later when a core but small group of hardcore players embraced it. Sounds similar to how you guys embraced DOA 3.1. So this point can support your argument that drastic changes can be a good thing for the high level community.Sadly all versions of SF 3 failed in term,s of player support and financially. Which is why Capcom didn't make a true SF sequel until almost 10 yrs later
True I have not spoken to any Team Ninja rep.But I know bullshit when I see it. I dabble in the culinary arts . I do baking as small business. My customers always give me feedback on what they like or don't like about things I bake for them. I do my best to please my customers but at the same time I can't please everyone. Some one or some people are not going to like the way I bake my cookies or cakes.They won't like the way they taste or the texture of the cake as it rests on their pallete. And that's fine. I will still stick with my recipes because they have gotten me more satisfied customers then disappointed ones. My integrity towards what I bake makes my products consistent in terms of sales and flavor. That's what my customers want and what they expect when they buy my goods.
Team Ninja I'm sure is the same way. Its their game.The series has sold millions of copies worldwide without a huge offlline competitive scene to endorse it. They don't really need you guys suggestions. But they acknowledge this communities passion for the game by allowing you to be heard. Some of you guys are biting the hands that feeds you when it comes to the way you guys bitch about the game. You want the game to be better and that's fine. But its not always going to be on your terms.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
There is a hand that feeds me? Why wasn't I informed of this?
You're acting like we're dependent on TN for something here. We're not.
Adhering to us does get the game better publicity however, and helps them a lot. Even if the competitive scene itself is small, word of mouth surrounding a game is huge. Friends have friends have friends have friends. If the first friend speaks negative, most of the friends afterwards will as well.
Mailifang
Well-Known Member
I get what your saying. Teachers may be knowledgeable but they are not always right especially when it comes to a subject you may know more about than they do. I wouldn't lecture them though unless they are forcing me to accept flawed information that I don't totally agree with. A good teacher will recognize and acknowledge a student who studies and knows more than what the teacher is teaching.
Any time you create a public forum you have to be prepared for difference of opinions. And sitting on a high horse and saying your the end all be all of anything will just make you troll bait even if you are right. Nobody likes having anything stuffed down their throat saying" this is how it is and the way it should be done". You and I want the same goal but our motivations and ways we go about achieving that goal are different. I straddle both sides of this argument because I've been on both sides. But I'm also wise enough to see the big picture.The big picture wins out more than anything. And that is just play and support your game. And realize that if you want this community to get respect by the FGC then your going to have to get the community to come together as a whole.
You,Master,Vanessa, Mr Wah, Mamba and every other top DOA won't remain on the top of your game forever.If you want the offline scene to grow and be around for future generations of players your going to have to develop and nurture more talent by opening up to the whole DOA community. I'm not too worried though we got quite a few up and comers in the DOA offline scene.
-Actually it is quite the opposite. You are here complaining that we are asking for something the game is not, and stating other FGC communities have not gone through it. The above proves my point to a T.
-And this is where you stop. You cannot make assumptions of what you feel The team was thinking, or where they may have gone. The collective talking with them states the exact opposite of what you have claimed. We were told exactly why they chose not to go said route, and it has absolutely nothing to do with sale figures. If this was the sole reason for gamplay changes, Doa5 would be a far different fighter. The game that is closest to Doa5(which is Doa4) sold far less than the combined sales of all the different varients of Doa2, and Sold far less than that of doa3. This would indicate that Doa4 was not liked well by its consumers.
Mailifang
Well-Known Member
Exactly. But the negativity you guys are passing along is counter productive.Your undermining a lot of work involved into getting DOA5 any kind of street cred within the FGC. The good thing is that the offline scene has been putting on great shows at tournaments. Far as I'm concerned the players have shown what the game is like at a competitive level while still letting the FGC know they are playing DOA. As evident of some players dressing the female characters in their swimsuits in most matches ^_^. That is true pride and showing support for your game.
And you are depending on TN to provide you product to fulfill your passion for offline competitive play. If you guys didn't you wouldn't be complaining so much. You guys would've have moved on and played other games. Adhering to you guys does make the product better in some ways. And some of your suggestions could be destructive. Its not your decision to make in the end.
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