Why should DOA5 NOT have a 6-Point Hold system?
- Thread starter BlackOrochi
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ah Rikuto as a Bayman player thats how you get a good percentage of your damage,am i sensing hypocrisy in that statement?
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
But every character will have one, and you should absolutely go for it when you can.
qoodname
Active Member
Its true that its repetitive at some point and its needless to say that people will always go for the most damaging juggle possible. Im also aware that its not about going through the whole movelist in a fight but i like the fact that the defending player has a tool to punish people for becoming predictable. Sure the hold system needs to be tweeked here and there so its not as abusable as in DOA4. To answer your question, it doesnt matter if 2-3 attacks vary as long as you actually have to do so.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I use a character with good counters because there is no downside to my doing so. It's not hypocrisy at all, I'm just doing whatever it takes to win because my opponents are doing the same thing. Most of my damage still comes from other sources in DOA 5 though. Take away the counter from both sides of the table and I'm still outperforming my opponent in every other category.
Really, I lose nothing here. I'm telling you all, and team ninja, it's ok to nerf my counters. Nerf them into oblivion. Nerf everyones counters while you're at it. Your game will play much better without them being so prominent, I guarantee it.
Doug Nguyen
Well-Known Member
Yeah Dr.Dogg pretty much explained why i dont think counter recovery is not that big of a deal.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
I think I see Team Ninja's view very clearly. The Holds will BE heavy because THAT is the greatest aspect of the game. You remove holds in stun the game will get boring pretty quick. And of course you don't want your opponent to predict you, thats why you MUST have a mix-up game. If your too straight forward just wanting to do a same combo. People will have more of a reason to not like the game... Case in point, people criticize the fan-service and thats fine, but I never really hear them criticize the gameplay (other than some of you guys). Do you hardcores feel like you lose a lot? No offense whats so ever.. (Even though I lose a lot, I never want them to change something that doesnt need to be changed...unless I feel it is absolutely broken which at this point, its not. Me and my friend spent days on in playing the demo like it was the full game lol... JUST like the MK9 demo... my two cents)
Fighting Entertainment FTW!!!
You're in for a rude awakening. What happens when players evolve and learn to completely shut down holds into stuns? Which is looking like a huge possibility for some of the cast. You're only option is to play other mediocre players.
Codemaster92163
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Not entirely true. At tournaments, more than likely, but I try my best to do random, less damaging combos as well as integrate most moves from a movelist, regardless of frames and whatnot.
Allan Paris
Well-Known Member
I know that but, he said, "Punch, Punch, Mid." I figured he was speaking on characters that had that particular string and not a high to mid punch string.
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
There should definitely still be a good amount of it though. Just because.
No, I absolutely agree! I'm just saying that it might not be the main means of dishing out guaranteed damage for some of the cast. I'm not neglecting its importance. of course when the chance comes it would be stupid not to go for it.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
As Rikuto mentioned, it absolutely does. Just like DOA4 revolved around knockdowns into forced tech situations for an unholdable attack.
Now it may not be sit-downs and CB exactly, but it will be however a character can get an unholdable situation. Swap out sit-down stuns with limbo stuns and it doesn't change anything.
Let me also back up a bit and clarify since we're moving away from the original topic. I'm not against more recovery on holds. I'm simply saying it won't have as much of an impact during stun as creating more unholdable opportunities such as sit-down stuns and CB.
I don't think I'm limiting myself at all. In the ideal scenario, the opponent has one chance to counter during a stun. I will either bait the counter to punish, or go for probably one of three unholdable stun/launch options. If they guess right on that one chance to counter, good for them. But when they guess wrong I will punish them with a full combo.
Going by your route, the opponent has up to four chances to counter. Sure, you're giving yourself more options, but you're also giving the opponent more chances to escape those options.
There are basically going to be two types of competitive players in DOA5 and two types of characters (as of E3). The players will either embrace the unholdable stuns and mold their game around it, or they'll play the stun game and basically end up with something very similar to DOA4 (in terms of their general strategy).
You'll have the characters like Bayman who take full advantage of the unholdable stuns, and characters like Kasumi who can't do that and instead have to play the stun game (again, like DOA4). I guarantee any character who can't take advantage of unholdable situations will not be top tier... they may not even be mid-tier. Changing the recovery of stuns won't impact that, but giving them unholdable situations will.
I'll be providing a lot of Leifang info relatively soon, but to my knowledge she has two sit-down stuns. Neither of which are the second hit of a string.
Those videos don't really tell us the limitations of CB for each character. For all we know all of those characters can CB on the third hit in that build, but Shimbori wanted to show longer, more flashy combos.
When Bayman counters someone, a child cries in Africa. 1/3 life from a counter is not my idea of fun. >_<
And then you kick me out of your room for throwing you all the time.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
This is remarkably easier than most of you guys know.
It's all about putting yourself at just the right amount of disadvantage before you try it... or just tagging wakeup kicks. Can see those fuckers coming a mile away.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Do not discount the crying African children!
Shouldn't the title be 'Why should DOA5 NOT have a Hold system?'
DOA can absolutely have a universal hold system, it just needs to be toned down in its frequency of appearance so holds can actually mean something. If you gave the hold's properties to any other move, you'd consider it broken. The only reason people are so accepting of the hold in its current state is because you've just had to deal with it for so long and gotten used to it. In reality, the hold, in its current form, is a disease holding back DOA from growing and the series will continue to suffer until Team Ninja properly addresses it. DOA5 has taken a few steps to address it but really they're just band-aids on a wound that needs amputating. See what you can salvage, cut out the rest and wait a while during the recovery period.
MajesticBlue
Active Member
So very true. I like to use moves around -8 or -9 to bait advanced counters. At least vs people who don't throw punish. If your opponent lets you get away with being unsafe anyways, you dont have much to lose. If you get hit you proceed to spam the next logical advanced counter of choice. lol
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