Lei Fang changes in DOA5U

[NightAntilli]

I liked 2K as a trip. It's fast (15 frames), and on fastest slow escape, it grants you +12 on counter hit. 2P, which is equally as fast, grants you +0 on both counter and high counter hit. Her 2F+K is generally too slow for up close, especially against characters like Christie and Sarah. She has no other low to compensate. I guess instead of 2K we'll have to resort to 1P unshu or something.

 

[VirtuaKazama]

Well the patch is now live. Anyone got a chance to use 1.04 Lei yet?

 

[Yoyo]

well 2K gives her +19 on counter and hi counter hit. Is that good? Also 6T gives a wall splat and near breakable objects like in home it leads to the sitdown stun .

 

[StrikerSashi]

I got hit a bunch of times trying to use 2K as a crouch tech. Oh, well.

 

[NightAntilli]

I got hit a bunch of times trying to use 2K as a crouch tech. Oh, well.

I posted the following before in another thread, and although I have not played V1.04 yet, I already know the results from that nerf. Yes it's actually a nerf, despite the move being made safer.

Time to put some things into perspective, regarding the Leifang change in V1.04, of 2K from crouching to standing. She lost a great tool. It was one of her best defensive moves when expecting a high from the opponent, but still trying to play it a bit safe. If you get the counter hit, you get a decent advantage. If the opponent just stands and blocks, you're at only -6, giving them only a breakable throw. It's the only viable low she had for up close combat. This is what she has now, all with fastest stagger escape:

Leifang, 2K, (15 frame low kick, no tracking)
NH: -6, 10 dmg
CH: +12, 22 dmg
HCH: +12, 25 dmg

After the change, you have to resort to the unsafe moves like 66K (-12 on block), 3P+K (-15), 1P (-11), 4P (if it actually crushes the high), or the crappy lows that are 2P and 2F+K, to try and beat high attacks. Wait what? 2F+K crappy? YES. Here's why.

Leifang, 2F+K, (20 frame low kick, no tracking)
NH: +6, 20 dmg (up close)
NH: -10, 10 dmg (far away)
CH: +6, 25 dmg (up close)
CH: -10, 16 dmg (far away)
HCH: +6, 30 dmg (up close)
HCH: -10, 16 dmg (far away)

And here's 2P (15 frames, no tracking):
NH: +0, 5 dmg
CH: +0, 6 dmg
HCH: +0, 7 dmg

One can easily see the benefit of 2K here. It's fast and very useful on counter blow. The others, not so much. She gets +12 advantage compared to only the +6 of 2F+K. 2P is not even worth mentioning.

People have been saying they found it weird that Busa and Fu got their 2K to standing position in a prior DOA5U version, while Leifang didn't. It actually makes sense that way. Why? Because Busa and Fu have other lows to compensate at least partially. They both have a genius 1P that trumps their 2K. Let me demonstrate. All are at fastest stagger escape.

Busa, 1P (16 frame low punch, tracks)
NH: -7, 18 dmg
CH: +10, 22 dmg
HCH: +10, 27 dmg

Gen Fu, 1P (18 frame low punch, tracks)
NH: -3, 20 dmg
CH: +15, 25 dmg
HCH: +15, 30 dmg

They might not be 15 frames, but they are still fast enough, they track, they do more damage, and they give superior advantage compared to Leifang's lows. Do they need a crouching 2K? Not really. Does Leifang? Seems like it, don't you think?

 

[StrikerSashi]

Still have 1P as a high crush, though that's not really consistent. Very sad.

 

[Yoyo]

Her 2K is least -3 on NH and +19 on CH and Hi-CH,and only way that she can be thrown if they low block the kick, but at least there is a positive to her situation her 6T wall splats (extra damage when throw punishing ) and near breakable objects she gets a free stun so at least she got "something" to make up for it. :/

 

[Berzerk!]

Overall no big change to LF despite 2K. She'll be fine. The added safety to her strings ending in palm (66P) is nice, the improved input to 6H+K is great for stick players, making that tool more reliable (I prefer it to 2K anyway), and that throw on wall will be a neat little tactic.

 

[StrikerSashi]

I never had a problem doing 2H+K, honestly. 6T is fairly useful, though.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

2H+K was always a problem..
Appearently it was a bug since DOA4 programming that carried over up to 5U... (Shimbori's fault.. he admitted it lol)

As for Lei overall shes still very solid.. glad they didnt tamper with her much.

 

[StrikerSashi]

What situations did it mess up before?

 

[Berzerk!]

its noticeable on accurate controls like an arcade stick. DOA4 introduced mushy input detection to "benefit" pad play.

Basically, you would get neutral H+K instead of 2H+K in various situations, such as doing the input during free walk. Really hampers the use of the move when you can't rely on it. Hoping its back to being highly reliable.

 

[StrikerSashi]

I use a stick, but I guess I never usually do 2H+K during free walk.

 

[NightAntilli]

Overall no big change to LF despite 2K. She'll be fine. The added safety to her strings ending in palm (66P) is nice, the improved input to 6H+K is great for stick players, making that tool more reliable (I prefer it to 2K anyway), and that throw on wall will be a neat little tactic.

6PP is safer, but in general she got less safe when she wants to crush something. If you try to crush a high with anything now, and the opponent simply blocks, you'll get punished since every high crush is at least -11 on block. With 2K, you could still be safe against the majority of the cast if the opponent simply blocks.

At least the current crushes have follow-ups...
3P+K, imo her best crush right now, but also the most unsafe since it's -15 and has no follow-ups.
66K, great (unsafe) crush that can even crush mids, has a follow-up, but the second kick is easy to react to and is unsafe also.
1P, inconsistent in crushing, has two different follow-ups. If it wasn't for the inconsistent crushing this would be her best crushing move. She can go into unshu or simply do the second punch. Although the second punch is unsafe, it refrains people from simply grabbing after the first punch, since the grab beats a blocked first punch and beats unshu at the same time. It kind of gives unshu a bit of false safety.
4P, inconsistent in crushing, has a safe follow-up, leaves you BT.

I agree that she's still solid, however for a character that can mainly be played defensively only, it's a shame she lacks a proper (semi-) safe high crush.

 

[StrikerSashi]

I'm pretty sure 46P crushes highs as well.

EDIT: But I don't really use it, honestly. Pretty ballsy move to just throw it out there. I mainly use 2P and 1P now. 2P is usually only when I need to actually duck immediately.

 

[NightAntilli]

2P is so crappy against characters that are faster than Leifang... Or even equally as fast. In general I forget that move exists lol.

I honestly love 46P. One of her best moves. It sometimes seems to crush everything lol. Not just highs.

I forgot to mention 33P in my prior post. Due to its execution and slow speed I find it unreliable to use as a proper crush, but, it does give a nice stun on CH.

 

[Yoyo]

2P is so crappy against characters that are faster than Leifang... Or even equally as fast. In general I forget that move exists lol.

I honestly love 46P. One of her best moves. It sometimes seems to crush everything lol. Not just highs.

I forgot to mention 33P in my prior post. Due to its execution and slow speed I find it unreliable to use as a proper crush, but, it does give a nice stun on CH.

If 3P+K can crush anything, 46P can :G

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

I may be an unorthodox leifang player. But it seems to work out well for me.

I personally like her crouch (3)P lift stun. Its a launcher on CH and it covers nice range.

As for 2P its decent for what its intended for.. its by no means a VF 2P but sometimes I go for it for a quick crouch state in case Im in trouble with a mix up between highs and OH. But, Ive been using 2H+K alot more lately for the same reason despite it being unsafe since it grants nice frame advantage.

the other thing is Unshu and sabakis. Alot of Lei players dont seem to effectively use them. You dont just throw them out.. they are more effective as reactionary moves because their active frames are quite short. One example would be 6P4.. if u insert it straight a way it wont punish the opponents high or mid P.. but if you press 6P then wait for the response and punish with the 4 it works.

I think I'm gonna make a more refined tutorial stream for her for doa5u

 

[jjinkou2]

....
One example would be 6P4.. if u insert it straight a way it wont punish the opponents high or mid P.. but if you press 6P then wait for the response and punish with the 4 it works.

I think I'm gonna make a more refined tutorial stream for her for doa5u

I always liked your tuts. I'm eager to learn from your next about the sabaki. I brainless throw them anytime with obviously bad results .

 

[StrikerSashi]

You mean you react to highs and mids? That sounds like some HonzoGonzo stuff, honestly. 10/12f reactions sound insane even if you're just watching that split second after block stun.