I can't really give a shit about holds anymore. They can do whatever they want and people will still play the fucking game.
3-Point Hold v. 4-Point Hold
- Thread starter MrMoon360
- Start date
FakeSypha
Well-Known Member
Fixed it for you.
I don't think they'll change the hold system. They'll keep it the same.
Yeah, guess I just saw the news.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
What news?
daman077c
Active Member
They changed to 4 point holds, which changes a lot, to be honest. I'm wondering if they're going to keep Advanced Holds (considering that's what they originally had) strictly as the hold for Powerblows, or something to that effect.
Relius Starkiller
Active Member
4-point holds equals My boy 
's is back in business - Thats my BNB.
I wanna thank my boy Hayashi for coming to his god damn senses.
's is back in business - Thats my BNB. I wanna thank my boy Hayashi for coming to his god damn senses.
x Sypher x
Active Member
4-point holds equals My boy
I wanna thank my boy Hayashi for coming to his god damn senses.
Dam lol
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Oh right. I'm a bit... out of the loop on consumer news you could say. lol
BlackOrochi
Member
Wrong.
http://freestepdodge.com/threads/actual-odds-of-beating-the-threshold.735/
In reality, it is rewarding the defender for guessing randomly like a jackass more than 70% of the time, according to the actual math.
Also, who's to say this is because of someones "insecurity" as an attacker? I could just as easily claim someone requires the hold system as a crutch because they are insecure about their own defense prior to getting hit.
Indeed Rikuto, the mathematical approach is undeniable
As a math fan myself, my calculations were somewhat different and the differential wasn't that drastic, but the conclusion remained the same: Odds of inflicting damage (not only "finishing combos") obviously increase with the 4pt Hold System and odds of successful Hold Spamming decrease.However, perhaps it's because I'm actually satisfied with odds of the 3pt Hold system that I don't feel the need for Team Ninja to mess around with them.
I also retract the term "insecurities" because it is sort of inappropriate. What I meant to say was making defense harder to change the odds (and help attackers) didn't seem right to me. I always found it fair that defending yourself from an assailant should be naturally simpler and more accessible, and that it is up to attackers to dig more into strategy and options to outdo a shielding defender.
Secondly, I think that making defense harder doesn't necessarily improve the appeal of the game. I'm thinking of those tekken & SF players I always try to reel in to the DOA world. Some of them already have a hard time guessing high-mid-low Holds, so if you add in another point, you add in another barrier. In my opinion, expert players can easily deal with the odds of 3pt, especially if you add in move and combo variations (odds may not increase as much as with the 4pt Hold system, but they do increase). So by switching to a 4pt system, I believe that we are actually favoring expert players to the detriment of less experienced players.
That being said, what did you think of that Hybrid 3pt-4pt Hold system in the Demo? (3pt for basic Holds, 4pt for Expert Holds)
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
The problem with 3 point holds in any form is that any time you are stunned, you are always playing a 50/50 to get out of it because low holds also avoid highs.
So the guess is really just low or mid... and you have to do this somewhere between 3-5 times total before you can launch someone on the appropriate height for a decent juggle.
It's unrealistic to expect an attacker to consistently win a 50/50 coinflip that many times in a row. That's a bad enough problem by itself, but when you add the hold damage from previous games its just pouring salt onto the wound.
So the guess is really just low or mid... and you have to do this somewhere between 3-5 times total before you can launch someone on the appropriate height for a decent juggle.
It's unrealistic to expect an attacker to consistently win a 50/50 coinflip that many times in a row. That's a bad enough problem by itself, but when you add the hold damage from previous games its just pouring salt onto the wound.
BlackOrochi
Member
Yeah I see what you mean. But a 50/50 chance of landing a successful hit isn't THAT disturbing, ain't it? ... I mean, with those odds, I find that landing a successful hit is even more rewarding ! ... Or is that just me? lol Plus, it's part of what makes the game so great in the first place.
BlackOrochi
Member
I would see a problem if my goal in DOA were to land long combos. But my goal is to win, and performing long combos isn't the only way to achieve that. So I don't necessarily want to wait the end to launch my opponent. If I can do it sooner, I will. If I want to take a chance and wait until the end, then it's a gamble that I'd have to take by assuming the consequences of diminished odds.
BlackOrochi
Member
I'm glad they changed that!
