New Feature for 1.03A

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Mailifang

Well-Known Member
-Actually it is quite the opposite. You are here complaining that we are asking for something the game is not, and stating other FGC communities have not gone through it. The above proves my point to a T.

It also proves my point as well.

-And this is where you stop. You cannot make assumptions of what you feel The team was thinking, or where they may have gone. The collective talking with them states the exact opposite of what you have claimed. We were told exactly why they chose not to go said route, and it has absolutely nothing to do with sale figures. If this was the sole reason for gamplay changes, Doa5 would be a far different fighter. The game that is closest to Doa5(which is Doa4) sold far less than the combined sales of all the different varients of Doa2, and Sold far less than that of doa3. This would indicate that Doa4 was not liked well by its consumers.

I can make all the assumptions all I want as long as I can back them up. And the biggest reason that DOA4 failed is because you guys made it a mission to bad mouth the game. DOA4 also debuted on a console that at the time had technical issues(red rings of death) DOA4 on its basic difficulty was brutal.I knew people who just returned it because the arcade mode was too difficult. Then you add mediocre reviews and FGC bias.So that equals to a game that didn't meet expectations sales wise.

Even still DOA4 was the most publicized DOA game media wise of all the DOA games.It also introduced many casual players to the offline scene. It made quite of few you fighting game superstars and video game celebrity's.That lead to sponsorship's and getting paid to play. DOA4 may not have sold as well as other DOA games but in terms of making the series relevant it served a purpose more so than any previous DOA game.

They may have told you game sales don't matter but I call bullshit on that.The sales figures does matter.No only to maintain the companies bottom line but to also please the share holders. Their decisions also must have come down to keeping the the integrity of the game as a series. And that is all up to them.
 

Mailifang

Well-Known Member
Clearly you haven't been on SRK.

Actually I have.Too much theory fighter, unnecessary drama, and trolling.Most debates on that site consists of philosophy, politics, technical jargon, and bullshit. Hmmm sorta like the discussion we are having now.Only we are all adults and don't resort to petty insults.

I would never send any beginner level or new comer to the FGC to that site. Don't get me wrong their is a lot of good info there. Its just the forums are ridiculous.

::sips coffee::
 

Mailifang

Well-Known Member
Are you wise enough to understand this is not a democracy?


Actually since we are in America it is a democracy. But by all means if you feel that what I have to say is so bad to make me ban worthy than I can't stop you. You mentioned something about freedom of speech in one of your earlier posts. I believe that applies to me as well.
 

d3v

Well-Known Member
How about because DOA4's system was ass. Itagaki's vision for 4 runs contrary to good fighting game design. There's a reason every combo breaking mechanics in most legitimate competitive fighters are all limited in some form or other - because doing otherwise simply makes the game more random at best, and rewards bad players who suck at the neutral game at worst.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
I can make all the assumptions all I want as long as I can back them up.

You can't though.

And the biggest reason that DOA4 failed is because you guys made it a mission to bad mouth the game.

You're making more assumptions without being able to back them up.

Even still DOA4 was the most publicized DOA game media wise of all the DOA games.It also introduced many casual players to the offline scene. It made quite of few you fighting game superstars and video game celebrity's.That lead to sponsorship's and getting paid to play. DOA4 may not have sold as well as other DOA games but in terms of making the series relevant it served a purpose more so than any previous DOA game.

Yes, it now serves as a major point of resentment for every other superior fighting game with a community that wanted equal opportunity. Thank you for pointing out yet another major stigma it has against it.

They may have told you game sales don't matter but I call bullshit on that.The sales figures dose matter.No only to maintain the companies bottom line but to also please the share holders. Their decisions also must have come down to keeping the the integrity of the game as a series. And that is all up to them.

I don't think you understand how much benefit a Japanese development team actually notices if their game does well. Basically, "oh thank god I'm not fired." Although its more accurate to say "relocated" since firing doesn't really happen in Japan the same way it does here.

Unless of course you do too successful. Then they think your product is gold and replace you with someone they think will monetize it further, like with what happened to the director behind Dark Souls, and the reason Dark Souls 2 is going to suck (even though it will sell more copies initially).
 

Mailifang

Well-Known Member
How about because DOA4's system was ass. Itagaki's video for 4 runs contrary to good fighting game design. There's a reason every combo breaking mechanics in most legitimate competitive fighters are all limited in some form or other - because doing otherwise simply makes the game more random at best, and rewards bad players who suck at the neutral game at worst.


Maybe, but that is your opinion.I'm sure a lot of others here share that opinion. I have played worse fighting games on technical level than DOA4 . MvC2 was a broken hot mess.Yet that community embraced that crappy ass game and maintained a competitive active community for at least 10 yrs.
 

Mailifang

Well-Known Member
You can't though.



You're making more assumptions without being able to back them up.



Yes, it now serves as a major point of resentment for every other superior fighting game with a community that wanted equal opportunity. Thank you for pointing out yet another major stigma it has against it.



I don't think you understand how much benefit a Japanese development team actually notices if their game does well. Basically, "oh thank god I'm not fired."

Unless of course you do too successful. Then they think your product is gold and replace you with someone they think will monetize it further, like with what happened to the director behind Dark Souls.



So far I'm doing a pretty good job even though the caffeine is wearing off and I am sleep deprived. Because so far your posts are getting smaller and your trying to attack my credibility on my knowledge of the FGC and DOA as a whole instead of staying on topic. Your out of ammo and I'm out of coffee. I've said all I have had to say so far. So in the spirit of sportsmanship(oh noes! there goes that evil word again) and my respect for you I'm gonna politely bow out the discussion before we both end up butthurt and something we don't mean to say.
.
I go to know you a little bit better though.So that's all good. No matter what you say I still respect you as a player and a person.

Deuces.
 

Rikuto

P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Actually since we are in America it is a democracy. But by all means if you feel that what I have to say is so bad to make me ban worthy than I can't stop you. You mentioned something about freedom of speech in one of your earlier posts. I believe that applies to me as well.

No, you are on the internet on a privately owned website. You have no rights that are not given to you. You are a guest in someone else's house, and they determine the rules.

Furthermore America is not a democracy, it is a republic. A democracy would be if everyone threw in a stone to vote for every single issue. We don't do that in America. That's what the senate and congress are for.
 

Mailifang

Well-Known Member
No, you are on the internet on a privately owned website. You have no rights that are not given to you. You are a guest in someone else's house, and they determine the rules.

Furthermore America is not a democracy, it is a republic. A democracy would be if everyone threw in a stone to vote for every single issue. We don't do that in America. That's what the senate and congress are for.

Riiiiight. I still love you though.^_^
 

shunwong

Active Member
Wasn't this about tits? I see the point top players are trying to make though. In VF I feel rewarded for every hour I put into the game. In DOA5 I feel the more knowledge I have the more random it becomes.
 

d3v

Well-Known Member
Their decisions also must have come down to keeping the the integrity of the game as a series.
This whole concept of the "integrity" of the series is the problem. The best fighting series and developers are the ones that recognize the fact that fighting games as a genre are "emergent." This means that how the games are eventually played is dictated by the players.

Maybe, but that is your opinion.I'm sure a lot of others here share that opinion. I have played worse fighting games on technical level than DOA4 those. MvC2 was a broken hot mess.Yet that community embraced that crappy ass game and maintained a competitive active community for at least 10 yrs.
Except, thanks to how it was broken, MvC2 had a level of depth and competitiveness that few games can hope to match. All the "broken" stuff, all that was what kept the players coming back. This was a game where the top tiers changed drastically years after it came out - a point where other games would have died out. And even after that, the game kept developing and evolving, way beyond what the developers envisioned.
Compare this to the only "balanced" Marvel game - Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter. This is arguably the one with the flattest tier list. The problem however is that this was done by limiting what the players could discover. Outside of Omega Red and Wolverine, everybody had the same playstyle and the same combo flow of ground > launch > air combo > knockdown. By limiting and controlling what the players could do, the game ended up being flat with no room from growth.
 

virtuaPAI

I am the reason why you are here!!!
Staff member
Administrator
It also proves my point as well.
-You would like to think so but it contradicts your whole argument. Contradictions only prove one point, and it disproved yours.

I can make all the assumptions all I want as long as I can back them up.
-Here is the definition of Assumption for you:
A thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof: "they made certain assumptions about the market".
-You, unlike I have no proof in the matter at hand. You can back up your assumptions with more assumptions, yet you will continue to have no proof. This is why your statements will continue to have no validation, and come off as both arrogant and ignorant.

And the biggest reason that DOA4 failed is because you guys made it a mission to bad mouth the game
-Another inaccuracy from your part. Can you please start using some facts. For the record. Doa4 was supported very heavily by the community for two years before nothing good was found about it. This is what killied the game, not anyones bad mouthing.

They may have told you game sales don't matter but I call bullshit on that.The sales figures does matter.No only to maintain the companies bottom line but to also please the share holders. Their decisions also must have come down to keeping the the integrity of the game as a series. And that is all up to them.
-This assumption of yours is making you a bad debater. You are also picking irrelavent topics to argue about. So I would suggest that you start using some facts, and debate what is being presented, not some fallicious argument that is not being made.

So far I'm doing a pretty good job even though the caffeine is wearing off and I am sleep deprived. Because so far your posts are getting smaller and your trying to attack my credibility on my knowledge of the FGC and DOA as a whole instead of staying on topic. Your out of ammo and I'm out of coffee.
-You must not know how debates go. Your credibility/knowledge was brought into discussion due to you making statements about changing doa into something that it is not, than also bringing in how other Fighting game communities do not go through this. You yourself opened up the door for such questioning to take place. Posts are getting smaller because all you are doing is rambling and making assumptions, and going in circles.
 

Mailifang

Well-Known Member
This whole concept of the "integrity" of the series is the problem. The best fighting series and developers are the ones that recognize the fact that fighting games as a genre are "emergent." This means that how the games are eventually played is dictated by the players.


Except, thanks to how it was broken, MvC2 had a level of depth and competitiveness that few games can hope to match. All the "broken" stuff, all that was what kept the players coming back. This was a game where the top tiers changed drastically years after it came out - a point where other games would have died out. And even after that, the game kept developing and evolving, way beyond what the developers envisioned.
Compare this to the only "balanced" Marvel game - Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter. This is arguably the one with the flattest tier list. The problem however is that this was done by limiting what the players could discover. Outside of Omega Red and Wolverine, everybody had the same playstyle and the same combo flow of ground > launch > air combo > knockdown. By limiting and controlling what the players could do, the game ended up being flat with no room from growth.

Hmm you make a good point about how the community embraced the broken aspects of MvC2 and built strategies around it.But that also proves my point about if a community can embrace a busted ass game and make it competitive then why are we even complaining about DOA5 when it is no where near that busted. Glitchy yes.Busted no.

When I say integrity I'm talking about the core aspects of the game play. Games may evolve and change over time when things are added or removed from the core game play structure. But the structure in all the top well known fighting games always remains the same, The fans, casual, and competitive players all have a say on how a game plays in that regard. The wants of the many outweighs the wants of the few.
 

virtuaPAI

I am the reason why you are here!!!
Staff member
Administrator
You missed the whole point of his argument:
Except, thanks to how it was broken, MvC2 had a level of depth and competitiveness that few games can hope to match. All the "broken" stuff, all that was what kept the players coming back. This was a game where the top tiers changed drastically years after it came out - a point where other games would have died out. And even after that, the game kept developing and evolving, way beyond what the developers envisioned.
 

Mailifang

Well-Known Member
-You would like to think so but it contradicts your whole argument. Contradictions only prove one point, and it disproved yours.


-Here is the definition of Assumption for you:
A thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof: "they made certain assumptions about the market".
-You, unlike I have no proof in the matter at hand. You can back up your assumptions with more assumptions, yet you will continue to have no proof. This is why your statements will continue to have no validation, and come off as both arrogant and ignorant.


-Another inaccuracy from your part. Can you please start using some facts. For the record. Doa4 was supported very heavily by the community for two years before nothing good was found about it. This is what killied the game, not anyones bad mouthing.


-This assumption of yours is making you a bad debater. You are also picking irrelavent topics to argue about. So I would suggest that you start using some facts, and debate what is being presented, not some fallicious argument that is not being made.


I'm actually a really good debater.If I wasn't I wouldn't piss so many people off.

*so far you haven't disputed the "facts" I have presented. Or you chose to ignore them.

*Your running out of ammo because now your posting word definitions.

*If I'm debating you down and getting you agitated with mere "assumptions".Imagine how bad this discussion would've have turned out if I had used actual facts.

*I have experience to back up my statements. Experience as a consumer, a fan, a player, being a part of multiple communities, playing a shit load of fighting games, enduring numerous forum debates on fighting game forums, and as a person running an in home business.

* Oh by the way I Always contradict myself. Hell, I debate with myself all the time.. The good thing about being a walking contradiction is that you tend to know what the other person is going to say before they say it.

* I only made points.It didn't become an argument until you guys made it one.

*None of this is personal to me.And I am not being arrogant. I don't claim to be the end all be all of anything like some of you are. Then when I let you guys know when you get out line concerning the DOA community you guys make it a personal vendetta to put me in my place.Which is typical in most FGC forums.

* By all accounts I 've been very civil in this discussion. I respect all of you guys.But just because I respect doesn't you mean I have to agree with everything you have to say. What ,we can't agree to disagree?
 

Mailifang

Well-Known Member
You missed the whole point of his argument:

No I read it clearly.Broken game mechanics is still broken game mechanics no matter how much you try to Say it adds to the "depth" of the game.

I can say the same thing about the fighting that appeared on the Xbox called Tao Fang::Fist of the Lotus. I played the crap out of that game and loved every minute of it.Even still that game was busted all to hell. Glitchers use the same "depth to the game" excuse when it comes to cheesing in competitive games.

You can play basketball with borderline flat soccer ball and still make the game competitive. You could even say that since the ball is kinda flat and heavier it will go in easier and not bounce off the back board. The shapes and indentations on the soccer ball makes it easier to grip and shoot. You can say that adds depth.To me you just made the game worse. It still isn't a proper basketball.

You get enough interested people you can make a competitive game out of anything. MvC2 just opened the flood gates to how asinine and hypocritical the FGC can be when it comes to why they prefer certain games over others.
 
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