Lei Fang changes in DOA5U

[Einzelkind]

After using her for a while, I feel like Team Ninja wanted to push her more into a defensive playstyle again. By nerfing 6h+k, taking away the string from 8k and getting rid of her running qcf p, they basically killed her already limited range game. Getting rid of most of her guard breaks doesn't help either. I think everyone saw the mid kick hold nerf coming, but I think it could've been a lot worse. 3pkk, 3ppkh+k is a pretty solid combo after it. Just need to find something decent if you're next to wall. She still feels very good,though. Her two new moves from Unshu are pretty cool and the pigtails are god tier.

 

[Lobo]

After using her for a while, I feel like Team Ninja wanted to push her more into a defensive playstyle again. By nerfing 6h+k, taking away the string from 8k and getting rid of her running qcf p, they basically killed her already limited range game. Getting rid of most of her guard breaks doesn't help either. I think everyone saw the mid kick hold nerf coming, but I think it could've been a lot worse. 3pkk, 3ppkh+k is a pretty solid combo after it. Just need to find something decent if you're next to wall. She still feels very good,though. Her two new moves from Unshu are pretty cool and the pigtails are god tier.

100% with her range game being even worse. But does that mean she plays more defensive?

I had a match the other day where a Hitomi player was perfectly content sniping me with 46p and being safely out of range from anything I could do besides trying to bait him running into a 1p+k. Same concept goes for Ein 46p, Jann 66k, and half of Ayane's damn movelist. They can literally play hit and run to their heart's content and laugh as we futilely try to 9pp in

If anything, I think TNs forcing us to play more risky by ignoring the spacing side of the defensive completely. They're basically making it so that run up grab, or run up block are our only ways of getting in outside of the super telegraphed 9pp. We really can't afford to be more than 2 char lengths away, or else our options become super limited.

She's still nigh untouchable once we do get in. I do love me some 3p+k/1p+k hitboxes. Those 2 combined with the with unshu parries, regular parries, sabakis... yeah, Lei couldn't care less about being at disadvantage up close.

 

[Yoyo]

3p+k has a weird hit-box too?

 

[NightAntilli]

They changed the enemy's launch animation to that weird twirl. I only noticed that pp6pp doesn't connect on normal hit anymore. I don't know if the counter hit juggles got worse as well. Didn't have time to check yet.

They also nerfed k2k, which doesn't launch anymore if the first kick hits. And if the second launches it also has the new animation. Following up with 9pp or 2p+k,p isn't possible anymore. 46p works. But the really tightened up the input for the 46 and 64 motions.

I didn't test the mid kick hold yet. The usual 3p, qcfp etc. combo is in her combo challenge, but I'm not sure that it's guaranteed anymore.

Ok thanks. But I was hoping to learn more about it's frames on block. It gave huge advantage in the DOA5 1.03a version and was a great move to put some pressure on blocking opponents up close. Does it still have that capability or has the frame advantage from that move also been removed?

3p+k has a weird hit-box too?

3P+K was one of her best moves in DOA5. If it's the same, it's a godly move, despite it being unsafe. You simply have to know when to use it. You can't just throw it out.

Sad to hear that her long range game has become worse...

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Oh have I got some juicy shit for you guys .. been working my ass off all day in training mode ..
hopefully I'll try my best to release something within the week

 

[Einzelkind]

Ok thanks. But I was hoping to learn more about it's frames on block. It gave huge advantage in the DOA5 1.03a version and was a great move to put some pressure on blocking opponents up close. Does it still have that capability or has the frame advantage from that move also been removed?

The frame advantage on 7k varies from +3 to +5 depending on the distance. The further away, the better. All of her other guard breaks got nerfed,though.

6h+k is -3 now and no longer guard breaks (gives a bound stun on counter hit).

1p+k is -3 uncharged (no guard break) and +5 fully charged.

bt p+k is -5 uncharged (no guard break) and +9 fully charged.

4ppp is -5 uncharged (no guard break) and +8 fully charged. Gives bound stun on hit.

Her new Unshu mid kick is -5 on block. Other than that,I think her frame data stayed the same (except for the general parry nerfs). Was her qcf p sabaki safe on block? Can't remember, but it's -7 now.

Oh, and her 4t wall throw is 214t now, meaning it changed from a 10 to a 12 frame throw. And her force tech game is pretty much gone, so ppkh+k or 3p4p, p2p2k don't connect anymore on some juggles.

 

[Davey2100]

I just noticed that Lei-fang can do after her unshu parry but is there really much of a use in it? I never really did use her much and I guess the opens up more mix-up options.

Can't see much use for the tho, not really a big fan of in general tho.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

I just noticed that Lei-fang can do after her unshu parry but is there really much of a use in it? I never really did use her much and I guess the opens up more mix-up options.

Can't see much use for the tho, not really a big fan of in general tho.

Its useful in a sense that 1K is a lot safer than 2H+K ...
and the fact that you can re-enter unshu with 1KP4 makes it even better ..
I decided not to cover this in my video, but I might squeeze in 1 extra combo using it just to point out its practicality ..

 

[NightAntilli]

Its useful in a sense that 1K is a lot safer than 2H+K ...
and the fact that you can re-enter unshu with 1KP4 makes it even better ..
I decided not to cover this in my video, but I might squeeze in 1 extra combo using it just to point out its practicality ..

If 1KP is still -8 on block, unshu after it is not useful at all, since the defender gets a free grab. Not a lot of people knew how to punish that, but it's pretty straightforward if you know your frames.

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

If 1KP is still -8 on block, unshu after it is not useful at all, since the defender gets a free grab. Not a lot of people knew how to punish that, but it's pretty straightforward if you know your frames.

I'm not talking on block ...
1KP > unshu on hit is amazing ...

and I was comparing the 1K with the 2H+K .. NOT 1KP ..
1K is -12 on block ... 2H+K is -18
however .. with the glory of string delay .. you can play with inserting the P (or K) to adjust your frames .. (if needed)

on the other hand its a standing LOW .. meaning 1H+K would be far more useful as a high crush ..

so you really have to weigh it out ..

 

[NightAntilli]

Yeah I actually used the 1H+k quite a few times against jab-happy opponents. Not sure if that will work now... I'll have to play with the unshu again to see when it's useful and when it's not.

 

[Lobo]

I was playing around with unshu, and that noticed that if you 4p+k (successful parry) on CH or HCH, the follow up unshu k (and unshu p+k as well) will immediately put them in critical state for a CB.

Never noticed if this was the case for unshu p+k in vanilla, so it might not be a new change, but either way, I like how the game is rewarding you better timing your parries.



I like 1kp out of unshu over 2h+k now, because a popular thing for most opponents to do is duck after lei goes into unshu, because of how deadly her unshu throw is. If I were to do 2h+k, they get a free low grab from ducking something they weren't even trying to duck. With 1kp, you avoid the p getting blocked, and can cancel into unshu again to try to put on more pressure.

 

[Berzerk!]

Lobo the problem with that tactic is players who use low defensive hold, not just ducking. The low CH, which ducks Unshu throw, counters 1K or 2H+K, and stays ducked for 1KP.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

Yeah most of the times i use the parry i only just use p+k ot the throw or just nothing after it

 

[Einzelkind]

I do like the new low kick out of Unshu as way to get out of the stance quicker. I already try to get rid of my habit to go into Unshu even though my enemy blocked my attack, but the new kick makes it easier to get out of this situation once it happens.

The one hit CB set-up after you successfully parry an attack is great. But I really miss her force techs (but that's a thing most characters have to deal with).

 

[Lobo]

Lobo the problem with that tactic is players who use low defensive hold, not just ducking. The low CH, which ducks Unshu throw, counters 1K or 2H+K, and stays ducked for 1KP.

Oh, I know. I never said the move was good. Just that in comparison to 2h+k, you don't get immediately punished if they duck. I still never use either one.

Unshu K on the other hand is an amazing addition, because now they have to pick OH, mid p, or mid k. I thought the original mix-up between punch and OH was already great, but the third option is just icing on the cake.

 

[FightersLegend]

 

[GLoRToR]

We can has an actual, full update on her move list and changes? Who's the Lei mod right now?

 

[phoenix1985gr]

I dont think there is a specific mod for each character

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

My vids almost done .. got caught up .. sorry guys .. I'll try my best to release ASAP

by the way ..
I dunno if anyone noticed ...
Parry no longer switches sides when you parry a punch ...
this is GREAT news ..
it means you can simply auto-pilot the follow-up after without worrying about switching sides