Tomonobu Itagaki On Dead or Alive 5: “My Daughter Was Totally Ruined”

[crapoZK]

If Itagaki were to return to TN, I can't imagine anything else than just pure utter chaos going down. If that's how he truly feels about DOA in it's current state then he has no place there. I respect him because he gave birth to a once great series, which has now began to blossom again, but I cannot ignore the fact that he's being bitter about how the series and TN is doing without him. I get it, it's not easy for a father to see his little girl growing up and doing just fine without him. But he should feel proud of her success. Perhaps yes she has been rather spoiled, with all the DLC and what not being dropped on a regular basis. Some of which kinda makes me feel like they are oversexualizing the game a bit too much, such as the bikini packs, cops, nurses, etc., and others seem to lack any sense of creativity or originality. But hey if they're still making money I can't knock them too much for it. They've come a long way since Itagaki left, and I have high hopes for them in the future because they have proven and shown they have potential. And the community is even bigger than ever. I was stoked when DOA5 was announced and I enjoyed seeing it develop before release. It pretty much set the bar for the future of the series and while also showing us how TN was evolving as a team. I liked and appreciated what they were doing, the whole concept of fighting entertainment was appealing to me. Hell they even added a real story mode. That's something you don't see every day. But who really plays fighting games for the story right? Haha. And while I feel in some areas they may have gone a little over the top, and in other areas they are still lacking IMO, overall it was a fresh start that was badly needed and I'm glad to see they delivered. I'm not gonna get into a discussion about all the technical stuff and mechanics cuz I'm not very knowledgeable, I'll leave that to the pros. Some believe the game is shit, others say it's great, and in the middle people say it needs improvement but still playable. Me, I'm an optimist, so I'm just greatful to even have what we got and I'm happy to see the game doing well among the majority of the community at least and even the FGC as a whole. I'll always support the game no matter what.

Back to Itagaki...IF he were to actually do something for DOA as he claims, the only thing I'd like to see him do is bring his creative mind and restore the old charm that was lost in DOA. I can understand and sympathize with those who feel that past iterations had a certain "charm" that 5 just doesn't have. I can't really explain it but it's there. Here are some things that I miss.

1. Itagaki had a knack for bringing his culture into the game, and it was very well represented in the stages, they were beautiful. We need more of that nowadays. It's nice to see old stages being redone and returning in DOA5, but we need something new.

2. The costumes. Back then they had a way of making the character stand out and expressing themselves. They had a certain style that was unique to them. Once again, it's nice to see some old ones return, and some of the new ones aren't bad. But I'd like to something fresh.

3. Environmental interactivity. I guess you can kind of tie this one with the first. But we all know one of the things DOA has always been known for is how you can interact with the environment in different ways. I miss the old multi-tiered stages where they actually had some depth to them, like it's something you can explore. Everything is all flat now. Sure you can knock something off a cliff or through a wall or the floor, into a giant fucking statue or boulder, tank, etc., but it's still lacking. Fancy cinematics don't really make up for it. I wanna be able to walk down or up a hill or slope or stairs, or hell even a rooftop. Remember when you had to avoid a speeding car or a cheetah? Sure it may have seemed stupid but it sure was amusing to see other people get hit lol. I also like to see how the characters themselves interact with the environment, i.e. seeing Zack surf on your body down a flight of stairs or Hayabusa Izuna dropping you through a wooden bridge. Knocking people over partitions. Being able to easily slip in stages with water cuz it made you more cautious or added to your fighting strategy. Shit like that.

Stuff like this I can see Itagaki bringing back the so called "charm" to the series and I wouldn't mind if he did, in fact I'd welcome it. I know this is a very casual perspective but I hope some of you can agree on at least one point. Like I said, leave the technical stuff to the pros. With that being said, I'm just curious to see what will be his next move.

Open the Holy Bible and flip to FreeStepDodge, 12:26
Verse 3, please?

No but seriously, you got some low-key good points though.

 

[Nightpup]

Honestly, I agree with a couple of the points Itagaki made. DOA was intended as a game that anyone of any skill level can play decently to some extent. Adding in Critical Bursts, Power Launchers, Sitdown stuns, all of that stuff, creates a skill gap. One that I can't say I'm too happy with. If a skill gap should ever happen, it should not be something a game forces. It should be something that is naturally developed by the community itself. Super Smash Bros. is a good example of this; there's no inherent in-game techniques that make the good players better than the bad ones. Skill gaps come from knowledge and skill at the game itself. Of course, there will always be advanced techniques to pick up on, but those were almost never PURPOSEFULLY IMPLEMENTED into the game. I dislike things like these, where, "Hey! If you learn this technique, that puts you above those that can't perform it!" no, I don't agree with that. Being better should be about actually being better at understanding and utilizing the game's core mechanics. DOA prior to DOA5 was nice with this because it didn't have anything real "special" that a novice wouldn't be able to do. Combo throws and holds were the extent of it, really. No fancy combo extenders with Critical Bursts or Power Launchers. But once DOA5 came around .... I just didn't like the battle system anymore. I liked the Power Blows. But that's really all.

To be quite honest, I don't necessarily know what I'm arguing here. And I'm sure there are tons of flaws to whatever logic there may or may not be in that paragraph. And I'm sure many people disagree with my stance on how fighting games should approach how "skill" is displayed. But whatever. Just wanted to get my two-cents out there.

 

[ninemil]

DOA prior to DOA5 was nice with this because it didn't have anything real "special" that a novice wouldn't be able to do. Combo throws and holds were the extent of it, really. No fancy combo extenders with Critical Bursts or Power Launchers. But once DOA5 came around .... I just didn't like the battle system anymore. I liked the Power Blows. But that's really all.

To be quite honest, I don't necessarily know what I'm arguing here. And I'm sure there are tons of flaws to whatever logic there may or may not be in that paragraph. And I'm sure many people disagree with my stance on how fighting games should approach how "skill" is displayed. But whatever. Just wanted to get my two-cents out there.

I get where you're coming from, but limiting the skill cap by removing any immediate technique-based skill gaps, only limits the game's potential for depth, (and thus, player creativity and unpredictability.) Raising the skill cap and doing away with the anime/magical girl aesthetic is what drew me to the game, specifically, but that's a personal aside.

A lot of people criticise the story, and perhaps the implementation could have been better, but if you've played through that and done all of the challenges from each stage, there's nothing in the list of added mechanics that 5 brought to the table, that you shouldn't be aware of. It's a shame that they didn't include it with Core to ensure more of the people coming into the game for the first time learnt the basics, but I can understand why they didn't from a business perspective. Either way, I consider it a must-play before stepping online, and it certainly put me in a better position as someone coming into the series properly, for the first time.

 

[ninemil]

A little more, just to add to my perspective: looking back, it sounds silly now, but I still clearly remember the first time I landed a Power Blow Combo to complete that final story mode stage's challenge. I was grinning like a retarded monkey for hours, it was ridiculous.

First thing I did was go back to Fang, who I'd decided to main, to learn the same thing on her. It took ages to get the 236P down, but god did it taste good when I nailed it. I think I'm still using the Power Blow Combo title, even now, lol.

I guess my point is that while technique-based skill gaps sting the first time you encounter them, they do allow for much greater personal development, as a player. Sure, some people are going to kneejerk and walk away, but I'd rather be in a situation where there's always something new to learn, than one where boredom sets in, as you've learnt everything you can. 5U has such a deep, broad toolset, across it's cast.

 

[Argentus]

A little more, just to add to my perspective: looking back, it sounds silly now, but I still clearly remember the first time I landed a Power Blow Combo to complete that final story mode stage's challenge. I was grinning like a retarded monkey for hours, it was ridiculous.

First thing I did was go back to Fang, who I'd decided to main, to learn the same thing on her. It took ages to get the 236P down, but god did it taste good when I nailed it. I think I'm still using the Power Blow Combo title, even now, lol.

I guess my point is that while technique-based skill gaps sting the first time you encounter them, they do allow for much greater personal development, as a player. Sure, some people are going to kneejerk and walk away, but I'd rather be in a situation where there's always something new to learn, than one where boredom sets in, as you've learnt everything you can. 5U has such a deep, broad toolset, across it's cast.

ehm....i've had the opposite experience. I'm not a fan of power blows or critbursts, because I mostly see people just trying the same setups over and over online. Feels like those mechanics killed the variety/diversity in the game.

 

[ninemil]

ehm....i've had the opposite experience. I'm not a fan of power blows or critbursts, because I mostly see people just trying the same setups over and over online. Feels like those mechanics killed the variety/diversity in the game.

Perhaps it's because I main Fang, but if someone's funnelling to the same strings over and over and not mixing it up, I don't find it difficult to shut them down and punish. The netcode doesn't exactly help combating it tho.

 

[Argentus]

Perhaps it's because I main Fang, but if someone's funnelling to the same strings over and over and not mixing it up, I don't find it difficult to shut them down and punish. The netcode doesn't exactly help combating it tho.

never said it was difficult to punish. Doesn't stop it from happening though. People still trying over and over...

 

[x Sypher x]

I share the same sentiment with some of you guys. I think the whole addition of the power blow and power launcher and critical burst is kinda silly. I understand why they did it though, from a business perspective, and for the sake of adding something new, it was meant to be flashy and attract players old and new with their whole "fighting entertainment" motto. But at the same time it seemed kinda gimmicky, like oh yeah I've seen that before. It's no different from other games that have super moves, although most require meter build up. I like the concept, and getting guaranteed damage is always rewarding, but the game would have done just fine without it.

@Nightpup: There will almost always be a skill gap in almost any game that can be played competitively, regardless of the mechanics. And I agree, some of them are rarely implemented on purpose. They just so happen to be there and it takes a keen eye for someone to catch it. You pretty much hit it right on the money about Smash bros. Melee is a prime example. There is so much depth to that game it's not even funny. When I first heard about wave dashing I was like, "wtf is that?" I had to look up everything about advanced techniques on YouTube just to find out what everyone was talking about. I learned about a lot of shit I didn't even know existed in the game. I don't think the developers even knew about them right off the bat. It was the players who invested so much time into it and studying every little detail.

In fact, I firmly believe that deep down at their very core, video games are never truly designed to be competitive. It's the players who create that realm. As long as a game has a multiplayer feature, people will compete against one another. Now that's not to say that developers don't care about whether their game can be played on a serious level, they can always cater to the competitive players if they so please, but that's just not part of their foundation when creating a game. I don't think anyone goes head on thinking "I'm gonna make an fps or fg or mmo so that players everywhere can compete against one another and play in tournaments or special events or competitions and even play for money." Yes there are games that are designed in such a way that makes it possible, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's their goal. Their main concern is whether people will enjoy playing it. Will it be fun? That is key. A shitty game will be a shitty game no matter how you look at it. But a good game has the potential to be played on any scale the players so please, depending on the genre. But at the same time, the harsh reality of it, especially nowadays, if you're going to make a fighting game or a first person shooter for example, it would be ideal to design it in a way that can appeal to not just the casuals but the competitive scene as well. Because like I said before, it's the players that make it possible for a game to exist in that realm. If a game is played in local tournaments or even majors it creates more exposure for the game and that's important when it comes to sales, promotion, sequels, etc., because the more people who know about it, the more copies are likely to be sold in stores everywhere and the more popular it will be. This is good but at the same time it can potentially hurt a game because now developers have to keep not just the casuals happy but the competitive players as well. And sometimes it's tough to cater to both at the same time because it can create a division between their fans. But whether they like it or not, the competitive scene plays a big part when it comes to sales and revenue and such. Casuals will buy games regardless of mechanics and features and what not. But the competitive scene makes it possible for the game to grow into something more than just a game.

 

[Female Tengu]

ehm....i've had the opposite experience. I'm not a fan of power blows or critbursts, because I mostly see people just trying the same setups over and over online. Feels like those mechanics killed the variety/diversity in the game.

But even the casual crowd now tries to go for some nice set ups now. That's something you have never seen during DOA4 times. Most players actually start playing that game in a more offensive way. They adopted to other mechanics besides spaming holds and turtling....and that's a big plus in my eyes.

 

[ninemil]

They adopted to other mechanics besides spaming holds and turtling....and that's a big plus in my eyes.

This is exactly what kept me from playing the series before 5. That, and how painfully like the cast of an 80's arcade game everyone looked.

 

[crapoZK]

I mostly see people just trying the same setups over and over online.

Well if it works... then...


No but seriously, how can you play like that? That's like playing a scripted robot.

 

[Jyakotu]

DOA is a game that's very mix up heavy, thanks in part to the hold system. That's the biggest strength of the series, imo. The fact that you can't rely on the same strings and getting rewarded for making the right read. That's why the 4 point hold system in DOA5 just works. That's why the CB, PB, and PL system works. They reward players for analyzing their opponent's patterns and making the correct reads.

 

[Cadaveri]

Honestly, while I'm super grateful to the creator of the series.. I feel that the best way for him to improve the game is to stay away from it. Shimbori has done good job with doa5 (only bad thing compared to older doa's are the stages, which not all but some are pretty dull in comparison).

+ I wan't to add that bashing the current dev team on facebook isn't very professional at all.

 

[Argentus]

Well if it works... then...


No but seriously, how can you play like that? That's like playing a scripted robot.

Exactlt. My guess is its a holdover tactic from other fighters, like seeing a halo/cod player throw away their entire clip by reloading after every shot in a tom Clancy game. Its just them trying to focus on their most damaging combos. In this case, cab/pub/pl setups.

 

[Haipa Sonikku]

In fact, I firmly believe that deep down at their very core, video games are never truly designed to be competitive.

Not sure you got the knowledge and/or experience as since the 1st generation back in the 1970s, there was this thing called Score, High Score, Ranking, etc which players competed in and have had documentaries since then based on it i.e. King of Kong.

 

[ninemil]

+ I wan't to add that bashing the current dev team on facebook isn't very professional at all.

Itagaki's from that generation of 'super directors' who believe their experience and prior-successes trump all, and therefore they have the right to say whatever they wish, wherever, and to whomever they wish. Japanese respect culture gone horribly wrong.

It's the same generation that had been fucking things up at Square for the past half-decade, and getting away with it, because no one would cross the line to question their failures. At least our super-pounces like John Romero, crashed and burned, and were chased out of mainstream development by the bank managers early on.

I do hope the current TN team don't take his words to heart. They really have given the series a wakeup call. Given how saturated indie development is now, a triple A Dead or Alive in the same 'anyone can win, look, pretty anime girls!' style, really wouldn't have remained successful much longer. Garage teams can knock out similar on Steam with minimal effort these days.

 

[x Sypher x]

Not sure you got the knowledge and/or experience as since the 1st generation back in the 1970s, there was this thing called Score, High Score, Ranking, etc which players competed in and have had documentaries since then based on it i.e. King of Kong.

Yes I'm well aware of that. But like I said, it's the players that create that realm of gameplay. Just because something like high score is integrated in a game doesn't mean it has to be or is meant to be perceived as something where competition can exist. Some people like to challenge themselves and try to beat their high score. I suppose in a sense that can be considered as competing against yourself in an effort to improve yourself. But, it is in mankind's nature to compete with one another, so I digress. I'm just saying most of the time video games are not created with the intent for people to compete in them. Video games don't create competition, people do.

 

[Jyakotu]

I'm just saying most of the time video games are not created with the intent for people to compete in them. Video games don't create competition, people do.

So you mean genres like racing, sports, FPS multiplayer, MOBA, fighting, etc. Those aren't created for competition? I'm pretty sure the whole point of these specific genres are to compete with other people. And even then, every objective of any game is to win. Thus, you are competing against the AI in order to win the game.

 

[Rikuto]

Itagaki's from that generation of 'super directors' who believe their experience and prior-successes trump all, and therefore they have the right to say whatever they wish, wherever, and to whomever they wish. Japanese respect culture gone horribly wrong.

It's the same generation that had been fucking things up at Square for the past half-decade, and getting away with it, because no one would cross the line to question their failures. At least our super-pounces like John Romero, crashed and burned, and were chased out of mainstream development by the bank managers early on.

I do hope the current TN team don't take his words to heart. They really have given the series a wakeup call. Given how saturated indie development is now, a triple A Dead or Alive in the same 'anyone can win, look, pretty anime girls!' style, really wouldn't have remained successful much longer. Garage teams can knock out similar on Steam with minimal effort these days.

At least we could always vent our frustrations on John Romero by skipping to the last level of Doom 2 and shooting at his head on a stick. Were this an option in the Japanese side of the industry I would feel far less annoyance towards certain parties.

 

[ninemil]

At least we could always vent our frustrations on John Romero by skipping to the last level of Doom 2 and shooting at his head on a stick. Were this an option in the Japanese side of the industry I would feel far less annoyance towards certain parties.

lol, indeed ^^