Final Fantasy Thread

[DestructionBomb]

The thing about Final Fantasy XIII is, it also had a fairly troubled development(just not to the point that it got completely changed to a new game like XV though).

The game was delayed by a good year or two too, I believe it was originally supposed to come out sometime in 2008 but was delayed to December 2009 and March 2010 respectively. There was probably cuts or scrapped content entirely, or just complete changes that seem unnecessary like Oerba Yun Fang getting a sex change and taking crimson Lightnings personality.

XIII had good ideas but just had poor execution, which unfortunately is something the entire trilogy suffers from. XIII-2 and LR were both major cases of 1 step forward 2 steps back. The biggest fault in their execution was probably the "hallway" maps and narrative, your characters are branded l'Cie and pn the run from PSI-COM and Barthandelus the Sanctum Fal'Cie right? This gives story reason for being linear and unable to go to towns etc. But...

Honestly to stop the maps from feeling like hallways they could have done what Tales does which still have the maps be A -B but have extra things to explore with item spheres or something like that so they're not claustrephobic.

For me, Narrative was executed poorly due to the fact that they just throw you into the world and dont give you any hint of what any of the world lingo is in the cutscenes(much) or gameplay. Instead, you have to look at the in-game glossary and read an entire books worth of stuff just to get the world building lol

That, and the whole party is temporarily split up thing lasts waaay too long you get split up in Chapter 3/4 and dont have the full party until Chapter 9....5 whole chapters into the game lol

I truly feel that FF13 could of had the increased potential of including the Overworld map style in similar to FF6/FF7/FF8/FF9. Overworld leads to an immense map for expanse and adding the small town feature where entering it returns to normal. Such as Balamb Garden in FF8 where in the Overworld you are about as big as a house, but when you actually enter the town/city? it's extremely way bigger than you like how it's suppose to. It's a lot cheap in the status but it's more effective to include majority of things without cutting and emphasize on details instead of turning everything in real time for realism. Not everything has to be realistic which I feel they are pushing this path way too hard.

Honestly, if FF13 had something like this with a small change in the story and extensive build up in story climax+post game relations, I will put it up higher than most FFs without including it's sequels.

 

[Nikotsumi]

Instantly subscribed. This is by far one of the best videos I've seen lately. He even defended FF13 and a bit of the Luminous engine for those that care since he provided some slight points to it (I actually had to give an extra +1 to FF13 now for something that I've completely missed from it by checking on the game a bit). This peasant right here, is true to the FF holy grail of words and a fan. If you want to understand it, watch and listen to the entire thing before getting your panties soaked in by the immense kool aid he will be giving you. Best part is (7:35 - 9:40)

His priority choosing is slightly different to most. For me, ehhhhh..I'd have to go with Story > World > Characters > Combat > Graphics > Music.

Music should be the least of incredible concerns since it's really a matter of taste.

Lol, I watched it yesterday and agree with pretty much everything in the video.
My priorities are also different, I'd go with Story > Combat > Characters > World > Graphics > Music.

 

[Tyaren]

Alright, watched the video... While he has some good points, for example that Square Enix should stop developing their own complicated graphic engines that aren't even optimized for current consoles but highend PCs, there are also a lot of points that he has no clue what he is talking about.
There was no story content cut because they put too much work into the graphics. There are completely different teams, with different expertises and objectives working on a game. It's not as if the same developers create a graphic engine on Monday, then model a flower pot on Tuesday, then have to sit down and think about the story on Wednesday, then work on the combat gameplay on Thursday, to only come back to developing the graphic engine on Friday.
The game development was a mess not only or mainly because of the graphic engine. Years of directionless back and forth, changing directors with very different visions, splitting everything off into a myriad of different media and trying to please the public at the same time did that to the game's story.

There is also some plain misinformartion in the video, that a real graphics nerd instantly notices:

Final Fantasy XIII characters are not made of 30k polygons, that's a way too high estimate. 8k-10k is the right number:

Which is actually very little for that time.
The estimate for FFXV character models is also not right. It's 20k polygons for the hair and 80k polygons for the rest of the model. Combined about 100k:

I do agree with FFPeasant on the fact that for most people the immense jump in polygons, texture and shader quality and animation bones makes hardly any difference. They simply don't see it. FFXIII still looks amazing to this day. Some of it's environments, or lets call them backgrounds, because that is what they really are, look even better than FFXV's open world environments. But that is the catch! Crystal Tools was not an engine fit for a current gen open world game. You can't just easily reuse and update it as FFPeasant requested. The Luminous Engine, however unoptimized it is for the current consoles, gave us one of the most beautiful and detailed open world environments that we have seen yet. The game looks absolutely stunning on the PS4 Pro.

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

On the topic of SE stopping use of in house engines, they're already doing that tbf.

Kingdom Hearts 0.2 Birth By Sleep etc etc., Final Fantasy VII Remake and Kingdom Hearts 3 are all using Unreal 4, it seems thats the engine they're using for all future releases on both sides of the company SE Japan and SE Europe

 

[Nikotsumi]

Final Fantasy XIII characters are not made of 30k polygons, that's a way too high estimate. 8k-10k is the right number:

Which is actually very little for that time.
The estimate for FFXV character models is also not right. It's 20k polygons for the hair and 80k polygons for the rest of the model. Combined about 100k:

So, FFXV characters' hair is made with twice the polygons of a whole XIII character. I had imagined a lot more polygons were used for XV characters, but not this much. This is really intersting (and shocking xD), I assume it took them A LOT of time to create those models.
----------------------------------
On another note, did you guys experience anything weird in FFXV? Noctis did just perform a link-strike with a Chocobo in my game, but there's wasn't a Chocobo, or there was an invisible one [?].... anyways the game started freezing like crazy for the whole animation lol
Some time ago, there was also a Ronin wandering peacefully in Altissia, and I wasn't able to attack it xD

 

[Jadeinchains]

Okay I just finished watching it! He instantly gets props for praising XIII trilogy.

I agreed with a lot of what he was saying though there was little things I didn't, the main thing of the video though I agreed on him with, graphics aren't the most important thing though I've always thought that, I can really make a list of what's most important to me for Square because its all important and should have as much attention as it needs, I would say though that the story, world and characters are the absolute most important. Obviously music is important but like it was said before that's more down to personal taste.

One of the things I'd say though is that its important they still strive to make the graphics as good as they can and improve with each entry, I think they should stick with the luminous engine though for now ( or unreal 4 like grunt said ) since its an amazing engine and they know more how to use it now.

I still think FFXV is one of the most beautiful games ever even if it did have problems though and it shows the potential of the luminous engine.

 

[Tyaren]

So, FFXV characters' hair is made with twice the polygons of a whole XIII character. I had imagined a lot more polygons were used for XV characters, but not this much. This is really intersting (and shocking xD), I assume it took them A LOT of time to create those models.

The Final Fantasy XV models are with about 100k polygons among the top of their class in video gaming. And there are up to 5 of these insanely detailed characters on screen at the same time plus a dozen enemies and that in a huge open world environment. That is definitely a technical achievement.
(That's why I glance so often over to the fugly Tekken 7 with it's two low polygon characters in an enclosed stage, and I despair. I hope Soul Calibur 6 or DOA6 will show us what true current gen 3d fighters can look like.)

Speaking of character models, lets have two cool close ups:

 

[KasumiLover]

The Final Fantasy XV models are with about 100k polygons among the top of their class in video gaming. And there are up to 5 of these insanely detailed characters on screen at the same time plus a dozen enemies and that in a huge open world environment. That is definitely a technical achievement.
(That's why I glance so often over to the fugly Tekken 7 with it's two low polygon characters in an enclosed stage, and despair. I hope Soul Calibur 6 or DOA6 will show us what true current gen 3d fighters can look like.)

Speaking of character models, lets have two cool close ups:

Sigh...you must really hate Tekken XD And those close ups are definitely avatar worthy, I wanted to get some like that but I fouled up my chance -_-

 

[Tyaren]

Sigh...you must really hate Tekken XD And those close ups are definitely avatar worthy, I wanted to get some like that but I fouled up my chance -_-

Nah, I don't hate it at all. (I enjoyed TTT2 quite a bit.) I just think it's genuinely ugly, from it's art style to it's graphical tech.

 

[deathofaninja]

Final Fantasy has always been a highly underrated series. VII being one of the most underrated games of all time... I remember reading reviews for it and they made me so mad. People mindlessly attacked that game, and it touched my heart much like 15 ended up doing. I stopped following Final Fantasy games and just play them when they come out and I end up being really satisfied.

These are largely single player games so why give a fuck what anyone has to say? This isn't a competitive game.

If you follow a Final Fantasy game you have to remember you are going to see comments and opinions that end up being WalMart quality shit... because of its popularity it attracts a lot of toxic morons to it. SO don't seek out the poison @DestructionBomb as that defeats the whole purpose.

 

[Chapstick]

VII being one of the most underrated games of all time...

It's generally hailed as one of the best video games of all time and the people who speak out against it are usually ones that hate its popularity

 

[DestructionBomb]

I have to agree with Chappy DoTN Lmao. FFVII underrated? a bit hard to believe.

 

[Chapstick]

Don't think this has been posted yet (not my vid btw)

 

[DestructionBomb]

That one seems to be only images so far. I've been seeing a lot of out of bounds glitches. I should probably post some.

EDIT: Iris permanent party glitch. Want to try and trigger it. Let's go @Nikotsumi

 

[Chapstick]

I forget, can you glitch multiple characters permanently into your party?

 

[DestructionBomb]

I forget, can you glitch multiple characters permanently into your party?

Unfortunately, you are only able to hold one guest party member on your team. If another one comes in the previous guest character will be out the party and will just sit there immobile.

EDIT: Actually, there was a glitch where the player was able to create 20x Gladio/Prompto/Ignis in a battle. However if one gets KOed, they all get KOed. I'll try to find the video.

 

[Nikotsumi]

That one seems to be only images so far. I've been seeing a lot of out of bounds glitches. I should probably post some.

EDIT: Iris permanent party glitch. Want to try and trigger it. Let's go @Nikotsumi

OMG YES!!
I definitely wanna try this one, too bad it requires the ver1.00 of the game. Cor is the only one left xD

Also, now that we're speaking about glitches, I found this one >_>

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

It's generally hailed as one of the best video games of all time and the people who speak out against it are usually ones that hate its popularity

If anything I'd say it's overhyped, I imagine people going in 100% blind without knowledge of anything and people telling them its the best jrpg ever etc. etc.
They will probably enjoy it a lot more than people who play their first time being bombarded with that stuff.

I was the latter, so I genuinely expected to be blown away like I did with Persona 3 and 4. Instead, everything felt underwhelming or anti-climactic especially the end "fight".

Honestly, I think thats why I like IX, X, and even XIII more than VII. I went into them completely blind so it was fresh, unlije VII which everyone and their dog praises lol

Legit one of the reasons I'm excited for the remake, that some stuff will be brand new and fresh.

Tl;dr: I mainly dislike VII because I'm jaded it didn't live up to the hype. Also, its flaws that don't age well at all.

 

[Tyaren]

Also, now that we're speaking about glitches, I found this one >_>

I came in here to share this.
At this point it is getting frustrating... .__.
Well, they said they will expand/upgrade the game...let's see if they will do something with these cut areas in the future.

FFVII being underrated is the first time I have heard that, lol. It's usually THE most hyped FF. It is to the FF series what Ocarina of Time is to Zelda, Mario 64 is to the Super Mario series or what Soul Calibur II is to the SC series.

 

[Jadeinchains]

Nah, I don't hate it at all. (I enjoyed TTT2 quite a bit.) I just think it's genuinely ugly, from it's art style to it's graphical tech.

(Poor Tekken 7 has feelings too even If it is shockingly bad looking for the current generation. Anyway I think it's looking progressively better as time goes on.)

Anyway though I have to say I don't know a massive amount about FFVII but I've never seen it as underrated since people are always talking about it and saying its the best.

And I wonder when they'll say something? The festival event is supposed to happen and it was strange already to have it after the holiday pack tickets. And I'm guessing or hoping we'll see these locations get put to use. I want to see that city that was apparently like Manchester.