DOA5 and Sexualization: Too Much?

Has Team Ninja gone too far with DOA5 in regards to sexualization?

  • Yes, completely. They really need to back off.

    Votes: 59 33.7%
  • Well, borderline. They should be careful.

    Votes: 42 24.0%
  • I dunno. Whatever.

    Votes: 18 10.3%
  • Not really, no. They're good at the rate they're going.

    Votes: 36 20.6%
  • Not far enough, I say! Full speed ahead!!!

    Votes: 20 11.4%

  • Total voters
    175

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Oh don't worry, because as I stated I'm done with this shit and I'm done with you period.

You've done nothing but insult and belittle me all because you pretty much couldn't even tell a single point I made, then you decided that apparently, I must have been joking this entire time, rather than the singular point that I've made, dude, you can go straight the fuck off with that nonsense.

I never said OMG is a fucking feature jackass nor did that ever come off that I even fucking used it or anything like that, so congrats, you and MASTER LEGEND are the masters of the little freaking empty space you both have that is called your brain...I said that I seen it as something hilarious rather than sexual THREE. FUCKING. TIMES in this whole fucking thread, great job guys for apparently having tunnel vision too.

I'm done with this fucking topic, I'm done with you DestructionBomb period. And as I already stated before, this is virtually a "My way or Get The Fuck Out" way of thinking and it's shit like this that makes it hard for anyone to give a fuck about this game when not even the fucking community can not act like assholes because "I gotta be right and seem right, fuck anyone else whose seen as wrong".

I already knew the second this topic was made, shit like this was gonna happen and I was absolutely right.

Crap, Firewall isn't working. Oh what's this? You called me a jackass? did you insult a forum member? a member who enjoys the fighting side of the game?

Not sure where Master Legend came from but I guess I'll pat his back? Dunno. I'll drop a like on your post for no reason at all.

Love you too. So this debate is officially over right? Wooo thank god. Now back to the topic. Werewolfgold you are a genius, that is all.
 

David Gregg

Well-Known Member
Thought this thread could make it to 5 pages without crashing and burning. Guess I was wrong. And on that note...

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Xhominid The Demon Within

Well-Known Member
Just to be clear, that kind of abject name-calling of other users that we have all just witnessed is that kind of thing I don't like.

So..., don't do it in my topic, mkay? I'll feed you to my wolves. I surely will. I swear on me mum.

I can step up and say I contributed badly on that front and I apologize...to Master Legend.

I'm getting way too fed up for this nonsense and knew that the thread was gonna devolve into this and I still got swept in the current. I should have instead reinforced my position so that there's no way that it could have exploded like it has.

I'm not sure if he was in this thread or not and I should have stated I don't see OMG as a MODE, I see it as a SETTING since it's in the settings and it took me forever to unlock it on the 360(I unlocked it 2 months ago and I got this game a day after street date) and I barely use it on top of that. I use it like I do the DOA2 Old Man settings...barely and for laughs only. I don't and never will see it as sexy. I find it funny and if it's gone next game, so fucking what? We didn't have that level of OMG in DOA3, 4 or DOA2U or Dimensions to my knowledge and neither did DOA5 vanilla, so why would I be whining that's it's not there in DOA6?

But I'm tired of taking hits to my credibility because apparently, I'm not all going crazy over the fanservice or Marie Rose and anything pertaining to her. This is the same crap I despise when Yurlunger used it in the Casual Thread and it's the same crap now Destruction caused. All over stupid ass fanservice that BARELY hurted the game till the DLC, which TN has already stated in interviews that they know they are going too hard at it.
I NEVER was 100% fanservice, I played this game since DOA2: Hardcore because of the GAMEPLAY first and foremost, if I gave a shit about fanservice that badly, I would be scouring the internet for porn like I did when I was 11-12 and not bother with even buying the game and getting my brother to buy it.

So again, I'm done with this thread until there is some rational ability to have conversations without tossing fans under the bus for not being "real enough".
 

PhoenixVFIRE

Well-Known Member
Am I just jaded for not really finding DOA that sexy? There's specific THINGS sure, but as a whole, not really.
This soo much...

Like, I guess I can see how the "OMG" mode is subliminal, but I honestly thought it was hilarious. I don't think I've found DOA's boobs to be sexy since DOA3. After DOAX happened, I found myself laughing more than turned on(if ever tbh lol).

For me it's always been gameplay >>>>>>>>>>> fanservice. If they gave everyone in DOA realistic sizes and toned down the boob physics and fanservice, it would affect me exactly 0% because that's how much I give a shit about it.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Now that the ridiculous argument is over and I reign champion once again for the 20th time, let us proceed with the topic at hand.

For me it's always been gameplay >>>>>>>>>>> fanservice.

Thank you.

EDIT: I'll write on Xhominid's wall for the sign of our friendship. Hopefully everyone likes it.
 
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Yurlungur

Well-Known Member
But I'm tired of taking hits to my credibility because apparently, I'm not all going crazy over the fanservice or Marie Rose and anything pertaining to her. This is the same crap I despise when Yurlunger used it in the Casual Thread and it's the same crap now Destruction caused. All over stupid ass fanservice that BARELY hurted the game till the DLC, which TN has already stated in interviews that they know they are going too hard at it.
I NEVER was 100% fanservice, I played this game since DOA2: Hardcore because of the GAMEPLAY first and foremost, if I gave a shit about fanservice that badly, I would be scouring the internet for porn like I did when I was 11-12 and not bother with even buying the game and getting my brother to buy it.

A) Spell my username correctly it's at the side. There is no e in it and the @ button is free.
B) I don't even bother trying to argue with you anymore because you constantly need to play the opposing view of sexualization is completely fine when a good portion of people including team ninja said it hurt the game(indirectly). Now, you agree with it's actually factual instead of a huge opinion of people saying it which a lot of people did. If you're not into 100% fan service then you really need to stop saying fucking black when other people say white that is why your credibility is being "Hit" at this point a huge amount of people will agree with me on this especially after reading a huge amount of previous posts you wrote. Tch.
 

Awesmic

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
"Too much" is subjective, varying from one's opinion to another.

I got absolutely no problem with fetish outfits, don't get me wrong... but if you ask me, there's too much costume slots of certain fetish outfits with a different coat of paint. While it may be too late to consider this at this stage of DOA5's life cycle, TN needs a new marketing strategy for DLC costumes in general in the future, or rather DOA6. Swimsuits / bikinis / schoolgirl / bunny outfits are relatively easy to make compared to some more elaborate designs. If they're gonna be shared across the board with the female cast, why not do something more economical with it, such as bundle it all in a DOAX game (yeah, I said it, sue me), and make all the obtained fetish gear compatible with said DOA fighting game (the next-gen systems should be able to handle that after all)?

Also, to expand on that idea, why not make the compatible *insert fetish costume here* imported from said DOAX game fully customizable, taking only one costume slot instead of several?

(Ex. One Bunny suit, customizable. One Swimsuit type, customizable, one Schoolgirl outfit, customizable, etc.)

It eliminates the "same costume, different coat of paint" issue, and everyone's happy on that end. That way, more time can go into making some more original, stylish costumes as an actual DLC pack worth buying.

I know I'm not gonna be on everyone's good side for saying this, but I'm a firm believer in there being a delicate balance between aesthetics and gameplay for a fighting game. But I also believe in a marketing format that makes sense. For better or for worse, whether you want to accept it or not, DOAX is just as much a part of the world of DOA as the fighting games are. And at the end of the day, DOAX is a relaxing casual game where the goal is building your sexy wardrobe. And there are fans out there like me who genuinely like it for being just that. And this is coming from someone who plays Harvest Moon which is another relaxing game of the sort.

For those that enjoy it, why not reward them with the fetish costumes to play in the fighting games rather than have it force-fed as DLC? Some of you forgotten that this method was done before. Need I remind you guys that if you had a save file for DOA2 Ultimate, it was possible to install extra costumes from other versions of DOA3 to DOA 3.0 (US version)? So if that means TN should make another DOAX to rectify that issue, then I'm all for it. At least that part of the fanbase won't be left out in the cold. The devs can focus on creative costumes, the folks who love the fetish costumes (who are most likely more open-minded about DOAX) can customize it how they wish by playing compatible DOAX game, everybody wins.
 

Xhominid The Demon Within

Well-Known Member
A) Spell my username correctly it's at the side. There is no e in it and the @ button is free.
I don't keep up with snake themes and honestly, I don't really care to do so since I don't feel like playing perfect grammar at the moment Mr. Grammar Nazi.

B) I don't even bother trying to argue with you anymore because you constantly need to play the opposing view of sexualization is completely fine when a good portion of people including team ninja said it hurt the game(indirectly).
Funny because I played it when people act like it needs to be completely removed or other such nonsense rather than simply slowing down the DLC flow. I'm sorry you somehow see that as 100% me opposing anything that reduces the fanservice when that's not the case(I said it before and I know that's what I said).
Too much fanservice hurts the game. Taking it away removes the identity of the game. I always sought out the middle ground where there is gameplay matters but what makes the game...the game is still present.

Now, you agree with it's actually factual instead of a huge opinion of people saying it which a lot of people did. If you're not into 100% fan service then you really need to stop saying fucking black when other people say white that is why your credibility is being "Hit" at this point a huge amount of people will agree with me on this especially after reading a huge amount of previous posts you wrote. Tch.
And my rebuttal to that...is no.
I am what I am and if you feel that hurt that I play black to people's white and white to people's black, then you need to back off. I will always aim for Grey as I did when we found out Nyo was a character instead of Bankotsubo among others.
I'm sorry that I don't hit your typical standards and my previous points only "reinforce" your position, but I seriously don't care what others think, I thought that was obvious after my outburst about the typical Marie Rose drama in the Last Round topic. I say what I say and how I feel, without no real care past insulting me as a fan. So you can deal or not, that's your choice, I'm just here because I choose to be.
 

Aerospark

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
@Intelligent Alpha @oMASTER LEGENDo I dunno what you're talking about but it doesn't even seem tangentially related to anything. Cut it out.

Alright, I guess I can throw my hat in the ring now. Be forewarned. This is just me venting off the cuff so may contain salty language.

Over time, I've seen a lot of things coming out of Japan. And the more I payed attention, the more "shovelware" I noticed. It just seems like all of these manga, anime, visual novels, etc. just recycle the same characters repeatedly while changing the story slightly. And every anime season, there's, like, 12 harem anime. All with the same busty (and one flat-chested), doe-eyed, tropes fawning over the same lame, wish-fulfillment protagonist who doesn't even matter because the focus is all on how much everyone's boobs jiggle and when the next hot springs episode is. Over and over and over and over and over and over. So, yeah, that stuff doesn't interest me. But, it just keeps happening and people keep buying it. Oh, look, panty shots! Yay!

Liking sexy things is fine. But for me, I need more than that. People never try to mix it up and create interesting characters anymore. I don't need wish-fulfillment fantasy. I want interesting characters. I want things that are at least well written. But, it's like the majority of people don't care about that. As long as it has sexy, moe, waifu bullshit with an assortment of huge tits with different hair colors in it to make figures of and put on the half-naked (or naked) dakimakura and someone gets groped and they can never get married now. Over and over and over. And it's hella shallow. But, all of these companies just seem to push it out there like that's what they have to put out. I'm not even convinced that they want to anymore. It's just how it industry goes as a routine or something. It feels like they're not even trying anymore. And I think it's because the public isn't even making them try. Lowest common denominator, right?

Now, taking it back for a sec, I came upon DOA1 back in 98 or so for the PSX when my neighbor brought it over. Yeah, I looked at the boobs and were like lolwtflewd, but it had a cool atmosphere. The music was cool, the backgrounds were cool, the danger zones were cool, and I enjoyed the various characters (all of them). I geeked the fuck out over some ninja teleporting in a whirlwind of leaves and made sure I did an Izuna drop with Hayabusa at least once a round. And it was game over when I unlocked Ayane. She was, like, sparkly and shit. And she had this crazy spinning style and this rocking orchestral theme. This game oozed coolness for me. It had bikinis and stuff, but that was cool, too.

The stages got cooler in 2 and I thought that the costumes were really cool looking. Some of them could be considered sexy, but they all seemed to embody the characters or were just cool concepts. I really wondered why there were only images of the girls in swimsuits in the CG gallery. That actually made me angry. It's not that I disliked the swimsuits. I just thought it was odd to only have that.

DOA3 just seemed to be just badass. Yeah, the sexiness was still there, but all of the characters just seemed really cool and varied. And then DOAX happened and well... I could allow it as a side game. But, then look at what happened in DOA4. Leifang in DOA3 was all protecting kids from thugs and then in DOA4 it's like, "Oh, my boobs are so big that my tight shirt tore open. Oh, goodness me. Please don't grope me, sir." In DOA3, Kasumi's running for her life and sad that she can't go home and in DOA4, it's all "I'mma topless, pop singing mermaid! Wheeee!!" And Hitomi's ending and...

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At this point, I'm older and not as easily impressed. Things like Christie's ending didn't bother me, though. That's Christie being Christie. But, the most of the other stuff just seemed dumb. It had nothing to do with anything. It was just pandering for no reason. I want a reason. DOAX2 happened and that was just...ew. This is not cool anymore, guys.

So, DOA5 happens after all that time and they were like "Yeah, things got kind of ridiculous" and I'm like "Yes, they did. Glad you realized." I didn't take "toning it down" to mean "removing all sex appeal". Part of the coolness was it being sexy. Ninjas and explosions and flying cars and I'm like, "This is awesome. DOA is about to smack people in the face!" And then the Ayane vs. Hitomi video came out and suddenly fans were apparently like, "Why aren't their boobs bigger? MAKE THEM BIGGER DAMN IT! MOAR JIGGLE!!" And, I'm just like, "Are you plebes serious? Do you not see this hotness going on in front of your face? There are other things that make the game cool, you know? Jiggly boobs are only a small piece of the puzzle."

So, then they released the pre-order bikini pack. And, I said, fine. One set isn't gonna hurt anybody. And then, people found the super secret bikinis for Tina, Christie, and Lisa. And, I was like, sure. Work for your fanservice. And then the DLC started. And, then I was like, wait...something's wrong. And then it just kept getting worse. Ultimate came out, and they started making sure that you got good looks at the girls being vulnerable and panting in their character profile pictures. No. Bullshit. Being sexy is fine. Dumb pandering I can do without. But, it just didn't stop. The story mode was fine and took itself seriously. But, everything else surrounding the game became "Look at the hot, sweaty, women!" And then they were like, "We've got something that you've all been waiting for! GRAVURE VIDEOS!" Let's bring back Sixaxis jiggle!

Dafuq? And more bikinis, too. And it's never enough. People don't want anything more substantial than cheesecake. But, I'm gonna need something more substantial. What's the point in even having all these other features is all your going to promote is cheesecake? Yes, money is money. But, as game makers, you decide what type of game you want to create and how you want the game to be promoted. Sexy is more than just taking off your clothes. It's about attitude, too. Sometimes, subtlety goes a long way.

And now with maid outfits, nurses, etc. There's not even any personality in it anymore. Oh look, come to this fighting tournament. Oh, don't mind the fact that all of the girls are wearing towels.

What's the point? You're just mindless, waifu bullshit. Oh, look. A cute loli for no reason and no character development! Just like all the other shovelware. And people just throw all their money at it. Oh, look at how the softness engine makes the boobs look. I DON'T FUCKING CARE. And I kind of hate that so many people apparently are placated by it. Oh, if you want the full boob experience, you DEFINITELY need to go next-gen. Give me a break. If you want to just make a Japan only H-dating game filled with busty women and your blank, male protagonist, then do it. But, you decided to release a fighting game, worldwide. It should be about more than boobs. And you can't be neglecting half of your in-game fighters along the way. I want interesting characters, damn it. I want something deeper and less shallow. I don't need wish fulfillment.

That's enough of that. I'll post a more coherent, shorter, and technical post next time.
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Oh man, where to begin on DOA5's sexualization?? While I can't deny that the sexualization has been there from the start, it was honestly pretty damn tame compared to what we have now, in my opinion.

You have this diverse selection of female characters, from a mythological japanese creature, CEO of a company, and a fucking T'ai Chi Ch'uan prodigy. Each with their own unique back story, personality, and personal goals.

You have Ayane, treated like shit from childhood because of how she was born. She was the black sheep of the family and her village, her entire life she wanted to prove to herself and to everyone else that she was better than dirt, that she was not what people thought of her. And over time, she rose up through the ranks of her clan and became the leader of the Hajin Mon sect at sixteen, after putting down her adoptive father.

Then you have Helena, literally a head bitch in charge, who watched her mother get shot and die right in front of her during a performance after a failed assassination attempt. Helena entered the 2nd Dead or Alive tournament for the sole purpose of finding out who killed both her parents. In the 3rd tournament she needed to find out the truth about Project Alpha. I think the only time she entered the tournament just because at first, was the 4th one, but, she eventually wanted to end everything related to DOATEC by blowing the tri-towers and herself up.

I could go on and on, but that's too much to write. Now, take all of these interesting females each with their own personal ambition, right? Take all of that away. Strip them down and make them completely dull and boring, dress them up in whatever fetish outfit, whatever skimpy outfit, make them just barely wearing anything. They're nothing but sex objects now whose only purpose is to make the male ejaculate over his TV Screen. That's all people care about, no one cares about how interesting our characters are, they're just sex objects. That is exactly what DOA5 did with the illusion that "they're still interesting female characters."

Yeah, in the past they were. Now? They're a goddamn joke. Now, Dead or Alive does not have the most interesting, the most deep, nor does it contain the best damn plot in a fighting game or a game in general, but it was still something. Dead or Alive 5's sad excuse for a story was messy, all over the place, and just in general felt like it was put together at the last minute. It seems almost every female character has had their personality either sapped from them or completely altered so much they did a 180. For what reason? Make them sexy, ditsy, or something else.

Honestly, Team Ninja cares more about objectifying and downgrading their female characters rather than how long their series will live. The DLC is out of control, we have copy and paste fetish outfits and bikinis being slapped onto the females over and over. Ayane has what, 35 outfits now? How many of those outfits actually fit her character? Team Ninja pops these outfits out like no tomorrow knowing that people will eat it the fuck up.

When it comes down to sexualization, you can say Team Ninja tried to bring it down a notch, but people weren't happy with that. They didn't care about how fucking fascinating the Scramble stage looked or the new gameplay mechanics. Their eyes were focused on the size of their precious video game titties, and when Team Ninja received backlash for it, they kicked it into overdrive mode and somehow forgot how to have some chill.

Team Ninja's advertising also sucks fucking ass. They did good for DOA5 promoting it with a bunch of gameplay videos, new characters, new outfits, they showed the world "Hey we're back and we really want people to take us seriously this time", but, with DOA5+, DOA5U, and DOA5:LR, it was "look at the boobs, touch the screen to fight but we really want you to see the boobs, look at our new movie mode where you can ogle the girls' boobs, ass, and whatever else, you can now look at how physically and emotionally vulnerable she looks after losing a fight over and over again in the movie mode isn't that so sexy and creative??? Look at all these bikinis and fetish wear we release every 5 minutes. But also, have this balance patch lol." The fact that they also had this "big surprise" planned for us that turned out to be Gravure videos of the girls crawling and rolling around on the beach in pretty much nothing is just downright insulting and disappointing.

And now with Last Round on the way, the only news we've gotten is some new outfits, new hairstyles, and two new characters, one being a resurrected male and a female who is supposed to be the biggest. Biggest what? Biggest tits, biggest ass, biggest height, biggest weight? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is barely any news on gameplay changes as well, am I right? They're too busy focusing on their "Soft engine" to make their characters look more "realistic" to worry about how their game is perceived and taken seriously, and honestly, I think there's a big problem with that?

This game is fucking sexist, there's no denying that. But there are people out there going "There's nothing wrong with being sexy!", yes, I know, but there is a fine line between sexy and sexist, Team Ninja seems to have no clue where that line is. You can enjoy Dead or Alive for what it is. You can enjoy the gameplay, the fanservice, or something else, or everything about it, but, you cannot sit there and say this game isn't sexist because it is.
 
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UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I personally don't mind the sexualization, but it does bother me that they lifted more than half of these themed female costumes streight from online lingerie catalogs. How they haven't got into legal trouble for is amazing, but I guess lingerie and costume companies probably have better things to do than try to sue game companies.

They do know their target demographic though, so I'll give em that.

But at this point, I'm only buying stuff that's cool; the recent police pack is cool because it actually has two male characters (Rig & Bass) and it has a Big Boss Man reference, so that's cool.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
Well if there's one thing Tecmo is good at it's selling sex to 14 year olds. If they're proud of this amazing and original strategy so be it, but the characters are beyond saving at this point.

The good news is that even if TN became more juvenile, most of the industry matured. We have characters like Ellie from TLOU now, Clara from Watch Dogs, and even in the indie scene there's stuff like Fallow which I just heard about and it sounds awesome.

I guess TN's argument is that this is a fantasy game so the girls should be completely unrealistic, which is fine but I think other devs handle it better. SF4 is the cute girl at the gym while DOA5 is that spray tan street walker with the fake tits
 

EMPEROR_COW

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Me ? Ruin DOA? I'd like to see a single mother fucker around the world who is supporting DOA more than I am.

If anything I'm trying to save it.

I'm going to be posting something really big really soon... something probably nobody saw coming.
you know what? fuck it ... I'll just leave this here and let you all speculate your tiny dicks off because frankly I don't give two fucks what a handful of heavily pimpled masturbating teens at the peek of their hormone levels think at this point.
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Goarmagon

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Me ? Ruin DOA? I'd like to see a single mother fucker around the world who is supporting DOA more than I am.

If anything I'm trying to save it.

I'm going to be posting something really big really soon... something probably nobody saw coming.
you know what? fuck it ... I'll just leave this here and let you all speculate your tiny dicks off because frankly I don't give two fucks what a handful of heavily pimpled masturbating teens at the peek of their hormone levels think at this point.
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An interview with Tomonobu Itagaki?
 
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