The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[J.D.E.]

I just can't wrap my head around this Hayabusa is absolute garbage thing that I keep hearing. So he isn't great at everything like he used to be. His crushes are still solid, he has a variety of safe strings, lots of guard crushes that track, high damage output. So Hayate does "everything" better than Busa outside of punishing? I guess I forgot all those tracking guard crushes Hayate has.

I get that he is not top tier any more but I honestly think people were simply spoiled by 7 years of having a character who excelled at every single aspect of the game with no weaknesses to be exploited. He's still good at a lot of things and not so good at others. Saying they "killed" Hayabusa is completely ignoring all his strengths and only focusing on what he lacks.

Never said he was "bad" just that he's working harder in DOA5 to get the win. He still has tools to his disposal & yeah I agree with you on

I get that he is not top tier any more but I honestly think people were simply spoiled by 7 years of having a character who excelled at every single aspect of the game with no weaknesses to be exploited.

 

[Jefffcore]

Like I said before all this theory fighting doesn't work out in practice in a game like DOA5. The better guesser is going to win regardless of the match up(thank you triangle system) and Helena has the ability to override any match up in the game if she can score the knockdown, because she can guess better every time. At this point it doesn't really matter if you have an OH that nets you 50% at a wall, if you can hit a CB in 2 hits, if you have the safest moves, a 9 frame jab, it's a 10-0 match up or the biggest E-penis.

Matchups become irrelevant as soon as the stun system is in play, every character is equally viable because of this.

When you're talking match ups you assume both players are of equal skill; "The better guesser" doesn't exist.

How can she guess better exactly? It's not a perfect weapon.

She gets what? 120 from a Hi counter BKO? Perfect situation, Helena has to guess the same way 3 times to win a match. (Good players aren't holding, so that wont happen anyway)

Perfect situation for Jann: 2 guesses to get to CB, and 2 combos to kill you. That's 4 guesses, and it's a hell of a lot more likely to happen because Jann Lee is cray.

Lets say Mila tackles you on CH, that's 70 damage if she lets you break the last hit. That's 4.1 tackles to kill you, and a lot more likely to happen.

The BKO throw is probably the easiest thing from it to avoid unless you're on a wall, so you're adding 4 more guesses making 8 if she can't get a BKO throw. On top of that she's not getting the same damage so she has to do it more making it like 9 or 10 at least.

Lets say Mila gets CB on CH. Then she does her pseudo and tackles (you can only stop it if you crouch). If I let you break it that's still over 150 for an extra guess, making it 5 guesses. I'm still at advantage. If I did that again it would be 10 guesses, the same as Helena. Difference is, Mila is a safer character, and shuts all Helena's options down at neutral.

Mila wins that match up, and Jann Lee obviously wins it.

 

[DR2K]

When you're talking match ups you assume both players are of equal skill; "The better guesser" doesn't exist.

They can win the match up 9-1, but they don't matter once Helena gets the knockdown. She has this thing called frame advantage and not dealing with wakeup kicks all the time. All the time. As great as you say Mila is, the character just does not perform well at a tournment setting. Even Jann is getting used less, but Helena's are popping up left and right. She completely ignores aspects of the game that they have to deal with no matter what.

 

[Jefffcore]

I JUST gave you an example of the exact same thing from Mila. She doesn't perform well because people haven't figured her out, and the game is 2.5 months old. Tournament play is NOT the basis for tier lists. Helena isn't safe, so if she guesses wrong she's fucked, Mila ISN'T.

2.5 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're debating with no facts, and you're saying the same thing over and over. You can't tell me Helena wins because she gets a knock-down when I can tell you 5 other characters that can do the same thing.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I JUST gave you an example of the exact same thing from Mila. She doesn't perform well because people haven't figured her out, and the game is 4 months old. Tournament play is NOT the basis for tier lists. Helena isn't safe, so if she guesses wrong she's fucked, Mila ISN'T.

4 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You're debating with no facts, and you're saying the same thing over and over. You can't tell me Helena wins because she gets a knock-down when I can tell you 5 other characters that can do the same thing.

It's 2 months. September 25th, October 25th, November 25th, plus 18 days. So 2.5 months.

 

[Jefffcore]

It's 2 months. September 25th, October 25th, November 25th, plus 18 days. So 2.5 months.

lol Even better.

2.5 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MasterHavik]

Relax Jeff... just be one with the wind man.

In other news...Zack vs. Genfu makes me wanna kill myself.

 

[Jefffcore]

I am. That one was for comedic affect.

 

[HiguraShiki]

Can someone just beat Helena in a tournament and put her back at bottom tier. I liked it much better when she sucked.

 

[MasterHavik]

Well Ayane beats Zack 6-4 it would be 7-3 if I didn't have the funk roll.

I am. That one was for comedic affect.

.....No offense...I like you and everything...but you're not funny. Come to FR and i'll help you upgrade those jokes and humor approach.

 

[J.D.E.]

Well Ayane beats Zack 6-4 it would be 7-3 if I didn't have the funk roll.
.....No offense...I like you and everything...but you're not funny. Come to FR and i'll help you upgrade those jokes and humor approach.

Actually 7-3. Ayane has so many punishers & so many ways she can hurt Zack. She doesn't even have to turtle against him. She can do whatever she wants against him regardless of turtling or just.. attacking. It's really a fight for her to lose.

 

[MasterHavik]

Actually 7-3. Ayane has so many punishers & so many ways she can hurt Zack. She doesn't even have to turtle against him. She can do whatever she wants against him regardless of turtling or just.. attacking. It's really a fight for her to lose.

it was mostly her ranged game that got on my nerves. Up close isn't that bad. But her runaway game works against him because eh has trouble with characters that can space better than him.

 

[J.D.E.]

it was mostly her ranged game that got on my nerves. Up close isn't that bad. But her runaway game works against him because eh has trouble with characters that can space better than him.

Kasumi beats him there up close. Even though she's anti-turtler, she has hoshinipo dash that closes in on opponents. She has 3 options with that: P K or T. If you're turtling, & if I can catch you with the hoshinpo dash throw or a 33T, I'm taking some damage bro. She's also punishing ever bit his P or K strings with either a neutral T or 6T. She's hard to get out of his face. She also can just stun him for either 4P 3P & then use H+K 6K (also PPK 6K) for a juggle combo with. 6-4

 

[iHajinShinobi]

The Ayane vs Zack match is 6-4. It's more favorable for Ayane because she can do stuff at mid range that Zack can't do. Up close, Zack still has good speed (10i hi/12i mid) vs her speed (10i hi/13i mids/12i low) and high crushes.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Some posts were deleted for breaking the rules set forth earlier in the thread.

 

[MasterHavik]

The Ayane vs Zack match is 6-4. It's more favorable for Ayane because she can do stuff at mid range that Zack can't do. Up close, Zack still has good speed (10i hi/12i mid) vs her speed (10i hi/13i mids/12i low) and high crushes.

zack's fastest mid is actually i13. you forgot to add 2 bro. Why do people overlook Zack's speed. Yeah he isn't super safe, but man that speed.

 

[Musourenka]

In my personal opinion Kokoro loses to:

Brad Wong 7-3
Jann Lee 6.5-4.5
Mila 6-4
Lei Fang 6-4
Bayman 6-4

It is pretty late so I will elaborate when I have time to express why i think these are bad match ups.

Interesting. I was thinking Koroko does worse against Fang than Lee, mainly because of Fang's crush + parry game.

 

[J.D.E.]

Kasumi vs Ayane: Agressive Turtler vs the Aggressive Rushdown. The typical sister rivalry. 5-5. Ayane has her sister in the in the spacing & range. Kasumi is the fast pressure character in this obviously. Kasumi has a crazy wall game & tears you apart with her constant pressure. Ayane excels with the punishers & crushers & yomi. However at a mid range a patient Ayane has to keep Kasumi out because a patient Kasumi can get it. Dead even. Just the way a rivalry should be. lol

 

[iHajinShinobi]

zack's fastest mid is actually i13. you forgot to add 2 bro. Why do people overlook Zack's speed. Yeah he isn't super safe, but man that speed.

6P is 13 frames? I thought it was 12, maybe I'm thinking of someone else..

 

[Jefffcore]

13i isn't very fast.