MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
why? Because guaranteed damage doesn't make you untouchable you need the full package these days.
The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
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DR2K
Well-Known Member
Becuase you have to guess multiple times to get to anything guaranteed worth damage, lol.
dawnbringer
Active Member
This is confusing because people incorrectly use "i" prefix when mentioning non-impact frames. Impact frame is the first active frame. Whenever one uses in-game frame data it shouldn't be written as i#.
For example, Jann Lee's fastest mid is 11 frame/i13 punch.
This isn't always true, as Ayane is one of the few who has the ability to get damage through less guessing. 64H+P eliminates that altogether, and has a guaranteed "damaging" force tech into pressure.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Zack, Christie, and a few others would like to have a word with you.
Murakame
Active Member
Kokoro Vs. Leifang. I say 6-4 in Lei's favor. In this fight Lei's parry would be useful against Kokoro's mid and high punches. However Kokoro still has her heichu, 3K mixups , 2H+K and low punch / kick mix ups to keep Lei from abusing that although those are a bit slower than her mid and high punches so the parry is really only slowing Kokoro down not shutting her down like it does to some characters. Lei has great crushes so Kokoro has to be careful with her offense since one wrong move will give Lei the opportunity to get some nice damage. Lei has much more tools at her disposal to win this whereas Kokoro must rely on her offense which IMO isn't as hard to deal with as Leifang.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Not trying to be rude or anything, but my point still stands.
How? "One" stun into launch (or throw) isn't multiple guessing. It's stun > launch. You have only one chance to guess at my launch.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
One stun into launch doesn't do a whole lot of damage on average.
Ayane can get 50-60+ damage on a consistent basis just from stun > launch, that's really good. It's one of the few (but many) reasons why this character is really good. She also has guaranteed force tech at "every launch height". One stun into launch for force tech on average is more than enough for her to keep up momentum throughout the round/match.
If I stun you "once", and you hold high/mid or block afterward, I have the option to throw you with 64H+P.
64H+P > 4P+K > BT4P > BTPP6P2K is a guaranteed force tech with 50+ damage. Which leads into a nasty 50/50 (3P, 66KK4, 664H+P) mixup that you're not getting away from. That's all just from one guess.
Ayane has the luxury of not being forced to use the stun threshold so much to get decent damage. But she sure can go for it. Hell, she can get force tech with 8KK (8K is a normal hit launcher and a hi crush) just for hi crushing you.
50-60+ from one guess is good damage. We're not talking about other 3D fighters. We're talking about Dead or Alive 5.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Well it's not even good damage compared to what you can get off a deeper stun.
There's like no point in discussing anything with you. You have no legitimate argument saying how that's not good damage from one guess after I gave relevant examples why it is. You're just going from one matter to another.
If a character has the option to do stun > launch for good damage OR stun > launch > force tech. That is really good. Ayane gets rewarded for less risk, which is always a good thing.
If a character has the option to do stun > launch for good damage OR stun > launch > force tech. That is really good. Ayane gets rewarded for less risk, which is always a good thing.
That's the low point of her damage, and that's what she gets when you sacrifice damage for guaranteed force tech. And I'd gladly take that.
CH 6PP -> PPPK is 79 (CH 6PP -> 4P2K is 61+FT)
CH 6P -> 4P -> PP4PP7K is 77 (CH 6P -> 4P -> PP6P2K is 69+FT)
CH 6P -> 4K -> PP6KK4 -> 7K is 88 (CH 6P -> 4K -> 6P -> 4P2K is 71+FT)
CH 3F+K 4K PP6KK4 -> 7K is 96 (CH 3F+K -> 4K -> 6P -> 4P2K is 78+FT)
These are all pretty low guessing situations, for fairly good reward (the 3F+K is one isn't a guess at all).
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Zack has a a jumping uppercut where he ducks then jumps and spins as he leaves the ground. I don't know the input for it but it was really good in DOA4. Try that if you want a crush.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
it's 3P+K I know what it is. His duck punches and 7k are crushes as well. I think 33p is a crush too.
Jefffcore
Well-Known Member
I agree. The only thing Kokoro does better than Mila is play the stun game, but Mila doesn't really have to. Mila makes it really difficult for Kokoro to get the stuns she needs because she has better moves and SS, and her speed is about the same (if not faster with the use of 2p). They both play range pretty equally.