I'm going to be on the beta all day tomorrow (literally), so I'll be posting my findings and theories at some point of the day.
Ayane Dead or Alive 6 General Discussion
- Thread starter Force_of_Nature
- Start date
- Status
I'm further examining the 3H+K, to be honest, -13 doesn't really hurt the character that much in regards to spacing. In DOA5, 3H+K really was the best long range move in the game because of it's reach, nearly perfect strike speed, being a tracking mid, good pushback and blockstun, strong screen positioning and follow up game. And it was always safe, at -3. To say that this move not only spoiled us would be a lie on top of lies.
3H+K still does exactly what it does in DOA5 (U and LR), it's just unsafe and doesn't have push back anymore. So, what does this mean?
1) Firstly, it's not a braindead spacing tool anymore that you can put on the opponent's block. This will force Ayane players to improve their footsies and better work on their spacing. The character has a plethora of tools at her disposal, and they're all very good tools.
2) It is no longer a low risk/high reward move. Instead, you must learn how to poke at the space opponent's want to get into (honestly this is what the move is actually for, DOA5 just made it....really good lol).
3) You can still whiff it at safe ranges as usual, just keep in mind that you need to be better about your spacing with it now.
All in all, the move is still good, it's just not a low risk on block anymore.
EDIT:
So, I've found the real conclusion for 3H+K being unsafe now.
You can confirm Break Blow into it, and fairly easily. It's 88 damage from Break Blow (88 damage for whiff punishing), you can definitely rack up more damage if you Break Blow Cancel.
If 3H+K were still -3 on block, this move would be incredibly busted.
But all in all, still a fantastic move, but our trade is high risk/high reward now.
This also makes 3H+K a more attractive option in critical stun threshold, too.
3H+K still does exactly what it does in DOA5 (U and LR), it's just unsafe and doesn't have push back anymore. So, what does this mean?
1) Firstly, it's not a braindead spacing tool anymore that you can put on the opponent's block. This will force Ayane players to improve their footsies and better work on their spacing. The character has a plethora of tools at her disposal, and they're all very good tools.
2) It is no longer a low risk/high reward move. Instead, you must learn how to poke at the space opponent's want to get into (honestly this is what the move is actually for, DOA5 just made it....really good lol).
3) You can still whiff it at safe ranges as usual, just keep in mind that you need to be better about your spacing with it now.
All in all, the move is still good, it's just not a low risk on block anymore.
EDIT:
So, I've found the real conclusion for 3H+K being unsafe now.
You can confirm Break Blow into it, and fairly easily. It's 88 damage from Break Blow (88 damage for whiff punishing), you can definitely rack up more damage if you Break Blow Cancel.
If 3H+K were still -3 on block, this move would be incredibly busted.
But all in all, still a fantastic move, but our trade is high risk/high reward now.
This also makes 3H+K a more attractive option in critical stun threshold, too.
Last edited:
Indeed. The i22 recovery on the move is still great for making the opponent potentially hesitate on punishment, as long as the move isn't done close. The move doesn't have BT66P+K's or BT4H+K's pushback so you can get throw punished for free if your opponent is on point, which is made worse because your backturned and can technically get i5 thrown for free. But yeah, no one has exactly punished it so far from what I have seen haha. Basically, if your punishment of 3H+K isn't on point, you're going to get blown up.
Another note, 6K is only +12 on NH. That sucks. I liked it when it was +15 on NH.
Another note, 6K is only +12 on NH. That sucks. I liked it when it was +15 on NH.
Actually, I'm going to post it here, then edit my above post afterward.
So, I've found the real conclusion for 3H+K being unsafe now.
You can confirm Break Blow into it, and fairly easily. It's 88 damage from Break Blow (88 damage for whiff punishing), you can definitely rack up more damage if you Break Blow Cancel.
If 3H+K were still -3 on block, this move would be incredibly busted.
But all in all, still a fantastic move, but our trade is high risk/high reward now.
This also makes 3H+K a more attractive option in critical stun threshold, too.
So, I've found the real conclusion for 3H+K being unsafe now.
You can confirm Break Blow into it, and fairly easily. It's 88 damage from Break Blow (88 damage for whiff punishing), you can definitely rack up more damage if you Break Blow Cancel.
If 3H+K were still -3 on block, this move would be incredibly busted.
But all in all, still a fantastic move, but our trade is high risk/high reward now.
This also makes 3H+K a more attractive option in critical stun threshold, too.
Yeah, the guaranteed follows up off of 3H+K are still nice, and the break blow makes things even sweeter. DOA6 obviously wants to discourage highly abusable stuff with good rewards. Another heads up is that 2H+K is only +9 on NH now.
I think the fact that moves are less + on NH is a side effect of SE being gone and stuns being shorter in general. I like this change though, as stuff that used to stun and force people to hold no longer does this, which adds to the defensive mind game. Now it is foolish to hold after moves like Ayane's 2H+K or Jann Lee's P6P because they are only +9 now and do not guarantee a follow up, so the more knowledgeable player will have an advantage in situations like these. If a player KNOWS They don't necessarily HAVE to hold a follow up, it can give that player more confidence on defense.
2H+K is now a tool to get frame advantage with a small poke (kinda like an advantage low in Tekken), rather than a way to get the stun mix ups going.
Also, I guess I finally found an advantage to basically skipping DOA5 with the 3H+K change. Since it was -7 in DOA4, it had to be spaced well to prevent getting punished (i5 throws still punished, albeit with a tighter window than is in 6). I really don't think this is a bad change, and the move is still completely useful and still quite strong. Plus, with all of Ayane's movement options, a good player can reliably space this move to be safe anyway.
I haven't had a chance to mess around too much yet. Does anyone know if the second P in 6PP can be held after 64H+P? If not it's probably a better option after the throw than 4P+K. Is there enough time to do a 6P3P?
So far this game looks to be moving away from heavy stun resets and playing the stun game in general. I think the emphasis will more on the neutral and just using stuns to get a launch since launch heights have been normalized. I like this change a lot since I hated the style of play brought on by the extended stun threshold and low early threshold launch heights of 4 and 5.
2H+K is now a tool to get frame advantage with a small poke (kinda like an advantage low in Tekken), rather than a way to get the stun mix ups going.
Also, I guess I finally found an advantage to basically skipping DOA5 with the 3H+K change. Since it was -7 in DOA4, it had to be spaced well to prevent getting punished (i5 throws still punished, albeit with a tighter window than is in 6). I really don't think this is a bad change, and the move is still completely useful and still quite strong. Plus, with all of Ayane's movement options, a good player can reliably space this move to be safe anyway.
I haven't had a chance to mess around too much yet. Does anyone know if the second P in 6PP can be held after 64H+P? If not it's probably a better option after the throw than 4P+K. Is there enough time to do a 6P3P?
So far this game looks to be moving away from heavy stun resets and playing the stun game in general. I think the emphasis will more on the neutral and just using stuns to get a launch since launch heights have been normalized. I like this change a lot since I hated the style of play brought on by the extended stun threshold and low early threshold launch heights of 4 and 5.
Exactly. At first they appear like "nerfs", but they're essentially tweaks in accordance to DOA6's reduced stun game. It's mostly likely to discourage stun shenanigans and to encourage "stun-launch" more.
I doubt it can. 6PP was guaranteed in DOA5LR off of both 64T and 64H, and is even part of a combo challenge now. 6P3P I don't think is guaranteed, but you can do 6P3 shenanigans off of 64T or 64H if you so desire.
Ok cool thanks! Sorry I’m a little behind on the tech but I’ll catch up.
I actually think Ayane is very strong in this game so far. She has a real BT roll mix up now which is very scary. I just wish they gave her a BT S since characters like Rig have S from his flamingo stance, but that’s probably just me being greedy. I just like it when they give her more BT options since that’s a big part of her game.
I actually think Ayane is very strong in this game so far. She has a real BT roll mix up now which is very scary. I just wish they gave her a BT S since characters like Rig have S from his flamingo stance, but that’s probably just me being greedy. I just like it when they give her more BT options since that’s a big part of her game.
Yeah, I get what you mean. It's like back in DOA5 Vanilla when Ayane only had a front facing Critical Burst attack (6P+K), and then got the BT4H+K added in a patch. It's not really a bad thing so far, but it can be mildly annoying have you have a setup or something involving an "S" command, and Ayane is backturned (though of course you can turn around with the guard button).
EDIT:
@Jared @Force_of_Nature 6P3P (and 6P3H+K) is guaranteed after 64T in this game. It wasn't a guarantee in DOA5LR because of stagger escape. I can't hold or break hold out of it at all. Neither can the training dummy.
Also guys, Ayane's 6P+K causes a limbo stun on back turned opponents now. So any situations you think of to use this, practice these scenarios for an optimal punish.
My current punish on back turned opponents with 6P+K;
6P+K > 6P3P > BT6P > PKK > 236K (aim for close hit).
@Jared @Force_of_Nature 6P3P (and 6P3H+K) is guaranteed after 64T in this game. It wasn't a guarantee in DOA5LR because of stagger escape. I can't hold or break hold out of it at all. Neither can the training dummy.
Also guys, Ayane's 6P+K causes a limbo stun on back turned opponents now. So any situations you think of to use this, practice these scenarios for an optimal punish.
My current punish on back turned opponents with 6P+K;
6P+K > 6P3P > BT6P > PKK > 236K (aim for close hit).
Last edited:
Remember you have a lot of time after the PKK to dash up and do the drill kick for a close hit. Not sure if the wall carry is as good, but I think the wall carry has decreased in general since the first beta.
Good to know that that combo works though. The flashier the better. Also if you read a SS and hit them with an S, the 6P+K will limbo.
Oh HC 64H+P can you get a 6P+K limbo? I did it in the first beta but it could have just been my opponent not doing the right thing. I'm not on the game now but I'll test it when I am. I wonder if that would do more damage than the 6P3 options.
Good to know that that combo works though. The flashier the better. Also if you read a SS and hit them with an S, the 6P+K will limbo.
Oh HC 64H+P can you get a 6P+K limbo? I did it in the first beta but it could have just been my opponent not doing the right thing. I'm not on the game now but I'll test it when I am. I wonder if that would do more damage than the 6P3 options.
Naw, landing 64T on any hit status won't change the amount of frame advantage you gain. It'll remain as +16.
Also, what I like about ending PKK juggles with close hit drill is that you are right up in the opponent's face and can continue pressure. You're +9 if they tech roll. If they don't, I like to meaty with 1P > BT2P as I did in DOA5.
Also, what I like about ending PKK juggles with close hit drill is that you are right up in the opponent's face and can continue pressure. You're +9 if they tech roll. If they don't, I like to meaty with 1P > BT2P as I did in DOA5.
Ending a bound combo such as with 64T with a Close Hit 236K is pretty nice (though you have to dash in close to get the Close Hit property) for knocking an opponent into a corner like ending combos in SFV with Cammy's 236K Spiral Arrow/Cannon Drill for instant. And yeah, you get an extra 2 damage with CH 6P3H+K over a CH6PP in standard bound combos. I like the new moves Ayane got (though not really a fan of PPP.K or 66KK.K yet...).
66KK.K I really prefer over 6KKK for string/stun mix up after landing a critical stun. Doing 66KK.K will give way more offensive advantage than 66KK4 style juggles (even though 66KK4 juggles are still incredibly potent). But the knock back from 66KK.K is always a backwards tech roll. So you're always going to be at least +8 afterward midscreen.
Finally got some more time in. Is it me or is the push back on 3H+K practically all gone along with a little bit of range? Did someone already mention this here? The reward on hit is nice though.
The only thing this game is missing is something to scare people from staying on the ground to wake up kick. Less ground invincibility would be nice.
The only thing this game is missing is something to scare people from staying on the ground to wake up kick. Less ground invincibility would be nice.
- Status