DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Crext
- Start date
The triangle system is strike, throw, hold. Two options that are in every fighter, so you're only really talking about the hold. You're also not telling me anything I don't already know, and know another layer of it. I'm not going to continue going back n forth about the Triangle System and the neutral game when it's clear there will be no agreement there.
Yeah, I already said that, twice.
You're literally looking at it from simple game design, there is more to it than that. Remember when I mentioned an OS in the Ayane forums recently, that's just one of many ways to apply favorable pressure to an opponent. This is knowing another layer of the game that most do not see. Just like most actually do not understand what a neutral game really is.
It's okay for you not to agree, but I do know what I know what I am talking about. Also keep in mind that I said this is a rough draft of mine. Only posted here to see what others will say. Seeing disagreement is likely to happen.
Yeah, I already said that, twice.
You're literally looking at it from simple game design, there is more to it than that. Remember when I mentioned an OS in the Ayane forums recently, that's just one of many ways to apply favorable pressure to an opponent. This is knowing another layer of the game that most do not see. Just like most actually do not understand what a neutral game really is.
It's okay for you not to agree, but I do know what I know what I am talking about. Also keep in mind that I said this is a rough draft of mine. Only posted here to see what others will say. Seeing disagreement is likely to happen.
Clearly, you haven't said anything relevant to a neutral game or tell me why you think Phase 4 is better than a couple of characters. Other than say Ein's CQC is laughable, which isn't an argument.
The last few discussions I've been part of in this thread, no one has ever given me a good or better reason why a certain character is better or worse. Saying "I feel such and such" isn't a debate.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
Dude where the hell have you been..... we missed you
Oh.. you know.. just chilling.. killing terrible demons along the way..
Tempest
Well-Known Member
If you don't feel like I've presented any valid arguments, then I honestly don't know what to say.
Essentially I believe that Phase 4 has enough damage for a basic nitaku situation between strike and throw to be sufficient for her to win rounds, with difficulty against a lot of the cast. Her matchups vary on a case by case basis, but in general her strike speed will eclipse her opponent which allows her to poke and prod until her player can find an opening. Her 67H gives her a strong deterrent against high punches that other characters in her speed bracket do not have. Her 2p allows her to keep characters with slow mid strike speed in check. Her spacing is not amazing, but she has solid tools like chifu p, and she can whiff punish with 3k, H+K and her 6P. She has above average throws considering her speed, gets good punishes on BT opponents and has a solid sit-down from sidestep.
Having bad block pressure is not the end of the world in a game where true block strings do not exist outside a very small subset of jailing pokes.
Never said anything negative about her damage, I actually said that's what makes her shine. Pretty much the only thing that does. 3K, H+K and 6P are decent whiff punishment. Solid whiff punishment is something like 236P from Hayate, Ein, Hitomi, Raidou and Jannlee.
Her having an advance hold against high punches still isn't nearly enough to nullify the issues she has. Tina has an advance hold for high punches too, and she has better tools than Phase 4. There are other characters that have a sitdown stun from their sidestep too. My character gets a greater reward for it than Phase does, even with 4K for whiff punishment. Guaranteed 60-70+ with no environmental influence.
To the underlined, having bad on block pressure actually does matter. It matters a lot. PP6P and 66K P+K for example, are bad on block pressure. No one will think so with 66K P+K because no one actually ever fuzzy guards the situation. Phase is stuck for punishment when it happens, even if you teleport into nothing.
You just don't see this because no one does it. The average player will guess at something, rather than think ahead.
Like I said, it's fine if you don't agree on Phase 4. But I haven't been proven otherwise from you that she isn't low.
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Lulu
Well-Known Member
LoL.... what is that ?Oh.. you know.. just chilling.. killing terrible demons along the way..
Darkslay
Well-Known Member
Believe me, i would love to. But he lost to (apparently) the worst character in the game lol.
Kwiggles is simply a better player than Jaegar. As far as that match up goes, he also didn't punish Kwiggles either, at all. That is another reason.
Darkslay
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Character choice doesn't matter, the player who picks the character does.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Kwiggles is the only one that uses Phase 4 but that may be due to lack of knowledge of the character. Him and his bro play all the DLC characters since it seems the community gave them the cold shoulder.
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Not necessarily true. Steady would have won the EVO side tournament if Kwiggles did not switch to Christie. Character knowledge also plays an important role.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
I think the match up there matters..... since Steady Is great Jacky player and Kwiggles as a fantastic Christie player.
Although I'm not entirely sure what the matchup between those two is like.... and by not sure I mean I know didly squat.
Darkslay
Well-Known Member
Not quite either. Kwiggles had Christie for 3 matches, more than enough for Steady to make an adjustment, he switched to Jacky and almost took 2 games in a row, Steady allowed his nerves to get the best of him in the last match (I'm not the only person that said this) going for a simple 1P+KP > 6P > P > CB setup in EVO Grand Finals? Are you serious?
Lulu
Well-Known Member
Is it just me or does this seem to happen enough times to be considered a pattern ?
You missed the point I made, entirely.