System Frame Data Explained

[NightAntilli]

Still some stuff that doesn't make sense to me as far as frame data goes.

Anyone know why Kokoro 3K is guaranteed after 8P6P, but not her 6K? They both have the same number of startup and active frames, and 6K doesn't whiff or anything like that. Some other characters have things similar to this, but is just the best example I can think of.

It might still have to do with range. Maybe 3K indeed reaches on the first active frame, but 6K on the second active frame due to range? Just a speculation, but it's probably something in that direction.

 

[Heikou]

It might still have to do with range. Maybe 3K indeed reaches on the first active frame, but 6K on the second active frame due to range? Just a speculation, but it's probably something in that direction.

That could be the case. I guess I'll have to test it out next to an invisible wall.

 

[Tempest]

That could be the case. I guess I'll have to test it out next to an invisible wall.

I got it to connect on Zack Island against the invisible wall. Wasn't consistent, but It was happening occasionally.

 

[Swinky15]

hey sly how did you set up that excel spread sheet? i want to do one for Hayate when LR comes out for the pc

 

[Sly Bass]

bump.

 

[Lulu]

Its always good to know what the Universal Frames are, stuff that applies to all Characters like Crouching, Blocking from BT and Wake Up Kicks.
Speaking of which.... did they ever get around to fixing that 2 Frame Discrepancy on Strike Attacks from 5 Vanilla ?..... I mean..... I would test it myself but pshhhhh whos got the time for that

 

[Sly Bass]

Its always good to know what the Universal Frames are, stuff that applies to all Characters like Crouching, Blocking from BT and Wake Up Kicks.
Speaking of which.... did they ever get around to fixing that 2 Frame Discrepancy on Strike Attacks from 5 Vanilla ?..... I mean..... I would test it myself but pshhhhh whos got the time for that

2 frame thing is still in the game.

 

[Lulu]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!

Oh well.... its no big deal.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Its always good to know what the Universal Frames are, stuff that applies to all Characters like Crouching, Blocking from BT and Wake Up Kicks.
Speaking of which.... did they ever get around to fixing that 2 Frame Discrepancy on Strike Attacks from 5 Vanilla ?..... I mean..... I would test it myself but pshhhhh whos got the time for that

According to Shimbori, this is how every fighting game deals with it. You always have to +1 it because the actual collision frame has to happen to register a hit and the following frame is when the hit animations begin.

The other +1 is only applicable to string starting attacks due to the game calculating which string you're attempting to start.

Otherwise, the frame data is accurate to the frames of animations.

 

[Lulu]

Oh.... I gues now that makes sense.... I didn't know about this stuff because DoA is the first fighting game I took seriously enough to explore frames.
I suppose at Zero frames nothing is actually happening hence the hit doesn't register. Its like those movies where they freeze time and yet they can do stuff that shouldn't actually be possible....switch walking on the floor (Gravity and what not)

 

[Rubii]

The guide above states:
"When your attack puts you at a positive number of frames of advantage, your follow up strike can connect if:
start-up frames of follow up strike <= number of advantage frames - 2"

Can someone explain why you need 2 more advantage frames than the start-up of your next strike? Currently I'm thinking you only need one more advantage frame, since that should be all that's required for your next attack to become active.

Thanks.

 

[XZero264]

It has to do with how DOA striking frames works. You have to add an extra 2 additional "startup" frames before thew active frames than what the game tells you. You'll see people thrtow around terms like "i9" as in "initially 9 frames before adding the extra 2."

 

[Matt Ponton]

The guide above states:
"When your attack puts you at a positive number of frames of advantage, your follow up strike can connect if:
start-up frames of follow up strike <= number of advantage frames - 2"

Can someone explain why you need 2 more advantage frames than the start-up of your next strike? Currently I'm thinking you only need one more advantage frame, since that should be all that's required for your next attack to become active.

Thanks.

It takes one frame to register a HIT, and it takes another frame for the system to calculate which string attack you are initiating.

Throws don't delay by one frame since the system is sure it knows what throw you are attempting.

Also, i9 means impact 9 or active on frame 9. 9i means 9 initial frames or a startup of 9 frames.

 

[Lulu]

Its probably because blocking happens at Zero Frames.....if it happened in one frame then you would only need to add one frame on start up of your moves....
Ofourse this is just a guess.... I don'r actually know how it works, I'm just piecing together what I've been told in the way it makes the most amount of sense.

 

[jjinkou2]

Now i'm delving into frame data i have more question. I understood the notation for a simple move.

How do the frame data work for a string ? is the following correct for the string of Kokoro:
17(3)21
14(3)27

Should i assume it will hit at the 17 (+2 hidden) + 1 active + 14 (+2 hidden) = 36th Frame?
or should i also add another 1 active frame for the second P and make it 37th?

Secondly, is my opponent could hit with a jab before the second if the first has not hit?

 

[Lulu]

Now i'm delving into frame data i have more question. I understood the notation for a simple move.

How do the frame data work for a string ? is the following correct for the string of Kokoro:
17(3)21
14(3)27

Should i assume it will hit at the 17 (+2 hidden) + 1 active + 14 (+2 hidden) = 36th Frame? or at 37th?

Secondly, is my opponent could hit with a jab before the second if the first has not hit?

Perhaps Page 3 of the move details can help you figure that out..... personally I can't make heads or tales of Page 3 but I do know it has something to do with multiple attacks in quick succession.

 

[Sly Bass]

Now i'm delving into frame data i have more question. I understood the notation for a simple move.

How do the frame data work for a string ? is the following correct for the string of Kokoro:
17(3)21
14(3)27

Should i assume it will hit at the 17 (+2 hidden) + 1 active + 14 (+2 hidden) = 36th Frame?
or should i also add another 1 active frame for the second P and make it 37th?

Secondly, is my opponent could hit with a jab before the second if the first has not hit?

Glad you're jumping into the frame data!

Here is the explanation on strings.

P is 17(3)21, so your active frames are 19, 20, 21. Since it is a string move, there is no need to account for recovery and add in any additional frames.
So since is 14(3)27 we take 21(from the result) + 14( start up) + 1(The phantom buffer frame) to find that the very first active frame of is 37. The active frames are 37, 38, 39.

In order to find an unholdable, Their first frame of recovery needs to be met by the very first active frame in your move. So will be an unholdable if you are +18 because that move is active on the 19th frame and the opponent loses their invulnerability on the 19th frame.

Does this make sense?

 

[Lulu]

LoL.... you might aswell be speaking french..... but what you're saying is pretty similar to something vesper said about Manual Combos in Killer Instinct.

 

[jjinkou2]

it's clear now. thanks. And your last paragraph is exactly what i'm working on, so you even answered a question i was about to ask

and french is not "compliqué"

 

[Lulu]

OOOOOHHH now I get it !!! If its part of a string theres no recovery on the 1st Punch...... can you use that plus the advantage you get on normal hit to calculate the duration of the opponents hit stun ?....... and from there do you just need another hit to become active before the end of that duration ?