DOA5 and Sexualization: Too Much?

[The Juggernaut]

I think the biggest thing for me is that this is a fighting game. And not only that, but a game that TN want people to take seriously. I mean, look at Gears of War and God of War. Super violent games that have gotten media attention multiple times. Mortal Kombat has also been infamous for being super violent. And there are multiple fighters that have sex symbols in their games (Ivy, Taki, and Sophita in Soul Calibur for example). But what do these games have in common that DOA does not? They are "technical games" first. Their gimmicks come second after the gameplay, graphics, etc., are at a good level. I don't get that feeling from DOA. Honestly, I wouldn't even care about how much fan service there is in DOA5:U, but when there are still technical aspects that need to be fixed, throwing a bunch of fetish and bikini DLC costumes at us doesn't get me too excited. And I think that's why DOA has this stigma; this gaming franchise has always been known as being "sexy", but until recently, it put that idea second and put the fact that it was competitive fighting game first. And to top it off, in DOA:LR, the big draw, the main reason we should buy the game again...is because of the "softness engine". Not because there are multiple stages, or better graphics/textures, or a better netcode, but because boobs move a certain way. The point I'm trying to make is that while being sexy is DOA's thing, that shouldn't be the main focus. It should be focusing on being a "fighting" game first, then add everything else second. People aren't going to just say, "Wow, I just played DOA:U, and even though there are tits everywhere, I'm going to keep playing because it's so good!". There are still things that need to be changed, and with the flaws that the game has along with oversexualizing every female character, its like a double whammy straight to the face of DOA. If you're going to put in gravure videos and sexualized losing poses for all the girls, at least make the game great in everything else.

 

[lotr9690]

I think the biggest thing for me is that this is a fighting game. And not only that, but a game that TN want people to take seriously. I mean, look at Gears of War and God of War. Super violent games that have gotten media attention multiple times. Mortal Kombat has also been infamous for being super violent. And there are multiple fighters that have sex symbols in their games (Ivy, Taki, and Sophita in Soul Calibur for example). But what do these games have in common that DOA does not? They are "technical games" first. Their gimmicks come second after the gameplay, graphics, etc., are at a good level. I don't get that feeling from DOA. Honestly, I wouldn't even care about how much fan service there is in DOA5:U, but when there are still technical aspects that need to be fixed, throwing a bunch of fetish and bikini DLC costumes at us doesn't get me too excited. And I think that's why DOA has this stigma; this gaming franchise has always been known as being "sexy", but until recently, it put that idea second and put the fact that it was competitive fighting game first. And to top it off, in DOA:LR, the big draw, the main reason we should buy the game again...is because of the "softness engine". Not because there are multiple stages, or better graphics/textures, or a better netcode, but because boobs move a certain way. The point I'm trying to make is that while being sexy is DOA's thing, that shouldn't be the main focus. It should be focusing on being a "fighting" game first, then add everything else second. People aren't going to just say, "Wow, I just played DOA:U, and even though there are tits everywhere, I'm going to keep playing because it's so good!". There are still things that need to be changed, and with the flaws that the game has along with oversexualizing every female character, its like a double whammy straight to the face of DOA. If you're going to put in gravure videos and sexualized losing poses for all the girls, at least make the game great in everything else.

I agree with what you say here.

I've been attacked whenever I bring up that they need to tone down their presentation of the female characters, especially in promoting the video game. I don't mean take the fan-service out but don't make it embarrassing to call yourself a fan. No one but my close friends know I play this game lol. It's really embarrassing and it gets really hard to defend TN's choices. Sure, I could play something else. But this game is fun. And I'm sure more of my friends would play it (especially some of my girlfriends) if it had more... how to put this? Aesthetically pleasing, yet less revealing outfits. More outfits that say "I'm powerful and sexy etc. but I'm not ready for a creampie closeup."

And before someone quotes me and yells at me, just remember that I, too, am a fan -- and I wish to keep playing. I am just saying that they can market the game differently and add more options that are inviting for all fighters. And (hello!) give the guys more swag. DOA has created some smexy guys. Let's give them some more revealing outfits; we're the F*** are those P.E. teacher uniforms for Bayman and Leon; Headmaster outfit for Ein and Hayabusa; and wrestling suspender singlets for Rig and Jann Lee. You might not know it yet, but you would like those costumes -- You might not admit it, but you would, fan-base!

Edit:

@Intelligent Alpha @oMASTER LEGENDo I dunno what you're talking about but it doesn't even seem tangentially related to anything. Cut it out.

Alright, I guess I can throw my hat in the ring now. Be forewarned. This is just me venting off the cuff so may contain salty language.

Over time, I've seen a lot of things coming out of Japan. And the more I payed attention, the more "shovelware" I noticed. It just seems like all of these manga, anime, visual novels, etc. just recycle the same characters repeatedly while changing the story slightly. And every anime season, there's, like, 12 harem anime. All with the same busty (and one flat-chested), doe-eyed, tropes fawning over the same lame, wish-fulfillment protagonist who doesn't even matter because the focus is all on how much everyone's boobs jiggle and when the next hot springs episode is. Over and over and over and over and over and over. So, yeah, that stuff doesn't interest me. But, it just keeps happening and people keep buying it. Oh, look, panty shots! Yay!

Liking sexy things is fine. But for me, I need more than that. People never try to mix it up and create interesting characters anymore. I don't need wish-fulfillment fantasy. I want interesting characters. I want things that are at least well written. But, it's like the majority of people don't care about that. As long as it has sexy, moe, waifu bullshit with an assortment of huge tits with different hair colors in it to make figures of and put on the half-naked (or naked) dakimakura and someone gets groped and they can never get married now. Over and over and over. And it's hella shallow. But, all of these companies just seem to push it out there like that's what they have to put out. I'm not even convinced that they want to anymore. It's just how it industry goes as a routine or something. It feels like they're not even trying anymore. And I think it's because the public isn't even making them try. Lowest common denominator, right?

Now, taking it back for a sec, I came upon DOA1 back in 98 or so for the PSX when my neighbor brought it over. Yeah, I looked at the boobs and were like lolwtflewd, but it had a cool atmosphere. The music was cool, the backgrounds were cool, the danger zones were cool, and I enjoyed the various characters (all of them). I geeked the fuck out over some ninja teleporting in a whirlwind of leaves and made sure I did an Izuna drop with Hayabusa at least once a round. And it was game over when I unlocked Ayane. She was, like, sparkly and shit. And she had this crazy spinning style and this rocking orchestral theme. This game oozed coolness for me. It had bikinis and stuff, but that was cool, too.

The stages got cooler in 2 and I thought that the costumes were really cool looking. Some of them could be considered sexy, but they all seemed to embody the characters or were just cool concepts. I really wondered why there were only images of the girls in swimsuits in the CG gallery. That actually made me angry. It's not that I disliked the swimsuits. I just thought it was odd to only have that.

DOA3 just seemed to be just badass. Yeah, the sexiness was still there, but all of the characters just seemed really cool and varied. And then DOAX happened and well... I could allow it as a side game. But, then look at what happened in DOA4. Leifang in DOA3 was all protecting kids from thugs and then in DOA4 it's like, "Oh, my boobs are so big that my tight shirt tore open. Oh, goodness me. Please don't grope me, sir." In DOA3, Kasumi's running for her life and sad that she can't go home and in DOA4, it's all "I'mma topless, pop singing mermaid! Wheeee!!" And Hitomi's ending and...

Spoiler: Uhhhh...

At this point, I'm older and not as easily impressed. Things like Christie's ending didn't bother me, though. That's Christie being Christie. But, the most of the other stuff just seemed dumb. It had nothing to do with anything. It was just pandering for no reason. I want a reason. DOAX2 happened and that was just...ew. This is not cool anymore, guys.

So, DOA5 happens after all that time and they were like "Yeah, things got kind of ridiculous" and I'm like "Yes, they did. Glad you realized." I didn't take "toning it down" to mean "removing all sex appeal". Part of the coolness was it being sexy. Ninjas and explosions and flying cars and I'm like, "This is awesome. DOA is about to smack people in the face!" And then the Ayane vs. Hitomi video came out and suddenly fans were apparently like, "Why aren't their boobs bigger? MAKE THEM BIGGER DAMN IT! MOAR JIGGLE!!" And, I'm just like, "Are you plebes serious? Do you not see this hotness going on in front of your face? There are other things that make the game cool, you know? Jiggly boobs are only a small piece of the puzzle."

So, then they released the pre-order bikini pack. And, I said, fine. One set isn't gonna hurt anybody. And then, people found the super secret bikinis for Tina, Christie, and Lisa. And, I was like, sure. Work for your fanservice. And then the DLC started. And, then I was like, wait...something's wrong. And then it just kept getting worse. Ultimate came out, and they started making sure that you got good looks at the girls being vulnerable and panting in their character profile pictures. No. Bullshit. Being sexy is fine. Dumb pandering I can do without. But, it just didn't stop. The story mode was fine and took itself seriously. But, everything else surrounding the game became "Look at the hot, sweaty, women!" And then they were like, "We've got something that you've all been waiting for! GRAVURE VIDEOS!" Let's bring back Sixaxis jiggle!

Dafuq? And more bikinis, too. And it's never enough. People don't want anything more substantial than cheesecake. But, I'm gonna need something more substantial. What's the point in even having all these other features is all your going to promote is cheesecake? Yes, money is money. But, as game makers, you decide what type of game you want to create and how you want the game to be promoted. Sexy is more than just taking off your clothes. It's about attitude, too. Sometimes, subtlety goes a long way.

And now with maid outfits, nurses, etc. There's not even any personality in it anymore. Oh look, come to this fighting tournament. Oh, don't mind the fact that all of the girls are wearing towels.

What's the point? You're just mindless, waifu bullshit. Oh, look. A cute loli for no reason and no character development! Just like all the other shovelware. And people just throw all their money at it. Oh, look at how the softness engine makes the boobs look. I DON'T FUCKING CARE. And I kind of hate that so many people apparently are placated by it. Oh, if you want the full boob experience, you DEFINITELY need to go next-gen. Give me a break. If you want to just make a Japan only H-dating game filled with busty women and your blank, male protagonist, then do it. But, you decided to release a fighting game, worldwide. It should be about more than boobs. And you can't be neglecting half of your in-game fighters along the way. I want interesting characters, damn it. I want something deeper and less shallow. I don't need wish fulfillment.

That's enough of that. I'll post a more coherent, shorter, and technical post next time.

I just love it when you post, sir.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Alright, I guess I can throw my hat in the ring now. Be forewarned. This is just me venting off the cuff so may contain salty language.

Over time, I've seen a lot of things coming out of Japan. And the more I payed attention, the more "shovelware" I noticed. It just seems like all of these manga, anime, visual novels, etc. just recycle the same characters repeatedly while changing the story slightly. And every anime season, there's, like, 12 harem anime. All with the same busty (and one flat-chested), doe-eyed, tropes fawning over the same lame, wish-fulfillment protagonist who doesn't even matter because the focus is all on how much everyone's boobs jiggle and when the next hot springs episode is. Over and over and over and over and over and over. So, yeah, that stuff doesn't interest me. But, it just keeps happening and people keep buying it. Oh, look, panty shots! Yay!

Liking sexy things is fine. But for me, I need more than that. People never try to mix it up and create interesting characters anymore. I don't need wish-fulfillment fantasy. I want interesting characters. I want things that are at least well written. But, it's like the majority of people don't care about that. As long as it has sexy, moe, waifu bullshit with an assortment of huge tits with different hair colors in it to make figures of and put on the half-naked (or naked) dakimakura and someone gets groped and they can never get married now. Over and over and over. And it's hella shallow. But, all of these companies just seem to push it out there like that's what they have to put out. I'm not even convinced that they want to anymore. It's just how it industry goes as a routine or something. It feels like they're not even trying anymore. And I think it's because the public isn't even making them try. Lowest common denominator, right?

Now, taking it back for a sec, I came upon DOA1 back in 98 or so for the PSX when my neighbor brought it over. Yeah, I looked at the boobs and were like lolwtflewd, but it had a cool atmosphere. The music was cool, the backgrounds were cool, the danger zones were cool, and I enjoyed the various characters (all of them). I geeked the fuck out over some ninja teleporting in a whirlwind of leaves and made sure I did an Izuna drop with Hayabusa at least once a round. And it was game over when I unlocked Ayane. She was, like, sparkly and shit. And she had this crazy spinning style and this rocking orchestral theme. This game oozed coolness for me. It had bikinis and stuff, but that was cool, too.

The stages got cooler in 2 and I thought that the costumes were really cool looking. Some of them could be considered sexy, but they all seemed to embody the characters or were just cool concepts. I really wondered why there were only images of the girls in swimsuits in the CG gallery. That actually made me angry. It's not that I disliked the swimsuits. I just thought it was odd to only have that.

DOA3 just seemed to be just badass. Yeah, the sexiness was still there, but all of the characters just seemed really cool and varied. And then DOAX happened and well... I could allow it as a side game. But, then look at what happened in DOA4. Leifang in DOA3 was all protecting kids from thugs and then in DOA4 it's like, "Oh, my boobs are so big that my tight shirt tore open. Oh, goodness me. Please don't grope me, sir." In DOA3, Kasumi's running for her life and sad that she can't go home and in DOA4, it's all "I'mma topless, pop singing mermaid! Wheeee!!" And Hitomi's ending and...

Spoiler: Uhhhh...

At this point, I'm older and not as easily impressed. Things like Christie's ending didn't bother me, though. That's Christie being Christie. But, the most of the other stuff just seemed dumb. It had nothing to do with anything. It was just pandering for no reason. I want a reason. DOAX2 happened and that was just...ew. This is not cool anymore, guys.

So, DOA5 happens after all that time and they were like "Yeah, things got kind of ridiculous" and I'm like "Yes, they did. Glad you realized." I didn't take "toning it down" to mean "removing all sex appeal". Part of the coolness was it being sexy. Ninjas and explosions and flying cars and I'm like, "This is awesome. DOA is about to smack people in the face!" And then the Ayane vs. Hitomi video came out and suddenly fans were apparently like, "Why aren't their boobs bigger? MAKE THEM BIGGER DAMN IT! MOAR JIGGLE!!" And, I'm just like, "Are you plebes serious? Do you not see this hotness going on in front of your face? There are other things that make the game cool, you know? Jiggly boobs are only a small piece of the puzzle."

So, then they released the pre-order bikini pack. And, I said, fine. One set isn't gonna hurt anybody. And then, people found the super secret bikinis for Tina, Christie, and Lisa. And, I was like, sure. Work for your fanservice. And then the DLC started. And, then I was like, wait...something's wrong. And then it just kept getting worse. Ultimate came out, and they started making sure that you got good looks at the girls being vulnerable and panting in their character profile pictures. No. Bullshit. Being sexy is fine. Dumb pandering I can do without. But, it just didn't stop. The story mode was fine and took itself seriously. But, everything else surrounding the game became "Look at the hot, sweaty, women!" And then they were like, "We've got something that you've all been waiting for! GRAVURE VIDEOS!" Let's bring back Sixaxis jiggle!

Dafuq? And more bikinis, too. And it's never enough. People don't want anything more substantial than cheesecake. But, I'm gonna need something more substantial. What's the point in even having all these other features is all your going to promote is cheesecake? Yes, money is money. But, as game makers, you decide what type of game you want to create and how you want the game to be promoted. Sexy is more than just taking off your clothes. It's about attitude, too. Sometimes, subtlety goes a long way.

And now with maid outfits, nurses, etc. There's not even any personality in it anymore. Oh look, come to this fighting tournament. Oh, don't mind the fact that all of the girls are wearing towels.

What's the point? You're just mindless, waifu bullshit. Oh, look. A cute loli for no reason and no character development! Just like all the other shovelware. And people just throw all their money at it. Oh, look at how the softness engine makes the boobs look. I DON'T FUCKING CARE. And I kind of hate that so many people apparently are placated by it. Oh, if you want the full boob experience, you DEFINITELY need to go next-gen. Give me a break. If you want to just make a Japan only H-dating game filled with busty women and your blank, male protagonist, then do it. But, you decided to release a fighting game, worldwide. It should be about more than boobs. And you can't be neglecting half of your in-game fighters along the way. I want interesting characters, damn it. I want something deeper and less shallow. I don't need wish fulfillment.

That's enough of that. I'll post a more coherent, shorter, and technical post next time.

Quite possibly one of the best posts I've seen.

Also this particular post link will be used as a status.

So you say Eiken is supposed to be erotic with it's beachball level jugs?

You missed the point. Having a feature like that overall is dumb and can lead to future speculation that TN just does that type of shit for that purpose.

And to further quote for anyone that made a statement about sorts of black eye or tits flopping around. It's sexual message whether you choose to believe it or not and the only module feature added to it. I love tits, I'm just not absorbed or interested in this virtual tits and all that waifu nonsense. Of course, it's what people prefer so I can't really judge them for it...but if this affects the game overall and makes the characters that much further to being lifeless, we have a problem.

 

[Nereus]

@Intelligent Alpha @oMASTER LEGENDo I dunno what you're talking about but it doesn't even seem tangentially related to anything. Cut it out.

Alright, I guess I can throw my hat in the ring now. Be forewarned. This is just me venting off the cuff so may contain salty language.

Over time, I've seen a lot of things coming out of Japan. And the more I payed attention, the more "shovelware" I noticed. It just seems like all of these manga, anime, visual novels, etc. just recycle the same characters repeatedly while changing the story slightly. And every anime season, there's, like, 12 harem anime. All with the same busty (and one flat-chested), doe-eyed, tropes fawning over the same lame, wish-fulfillment protagonist who doesn't even matter because the focus is all on how much everyone's boobs jiggle and when the next hot springs episode is. Over and over and over and over and over and over. So, yeah, that stuff doesn't interest me. But, it just keeps happening and people keep buying it. Oh, look, panty shots! Yay!

Liking sexy things is fine. But for me, I need more than that. People never try to mix it up and create interesting characters anymore. I don't need wish-fulfillment fantasy. I want interesting characters. I want things that are at least well written. But, it's like the majority of people don't care about that. As long as it has sexy, moe, waifu bullshit with an assortment of huge tits with different hair colors in it to make figures of and put on the half-naked (or naked) dakimakura and someone gets groped and they can never get married now. Over and over and over. And it's hella shallow. But, all of these companies just seem to push it out there like that's what they have to put out. I'm not even convinced that they want to anymore. It's just how it industry goes as a routine or something. It feels like they're not even trying anymore. And I think it's because the public isn't even making them try. Lowest common denominator, right?

Now, taking it back for a sec, I came upon DOA1 back in 98 or so for the PSX when my neighbor brought it over. Yeah, I looked at the boobs and were like lolwtflewd, but it had a cool atmosphere. The music was cool, the backgrounds were cool, the danger zones were cool, and I enjoyed the various characters (all of them). I geeked the fuck out over some ninja teleporting in a whirlwind of leaves and made sure I did an Izuna drop with Hayabusa at least once a round. And it was game over when I unlocked Ayane. She was, like, sparkly and shit. And she had this crazy spinning style and this rocking orchestral theme. This game oozed coolness for me. It had bikinis and stuff, but that was cool, too.

The stages got cooler in 2 and I thought that the costumes were really cool looking. Some of them could be considered sexy, but they all seemed to embody the characters or were just cool concepts. I really wondered why there were only images of the girls in swimsuits in the CG gallery. That actually made me angry. It's not that I disliked the swimsuits. I just thought it was odd to only have that.

DOA3 just seemed to be just badass. Yeah, the sexiness was still there, but all of the characters just seemed really cool and varied. And then DOAX happened and well... I could allow it as a side game. But, then look at what happened in DOA4. Leifang in DOA3 was all protecting kids from thugs and then in DOA4 it's like, "Oh, my boobs are so big that my tight shirt tore open. Oh, goodness me. Please don't grope me, sir." In DOA3, Kasumi's running for her life and sad that she can't go home and in DOA4, it's all "I'mma topless, pop singing mermaid! Wheeee!!" And Hitomi's ending and...

Spoiler: Uhhhh...

At this point, I'm older and not as easily impressed. Things like Christie's ending didn't bother me, though. That's Christie being Christie. But, the most of the other stuff just seemed dumb. It had nothing to do with anything. It was just pandering for no reason. I want a reason. DOAX2 happened and that was just...ew. This is not cool anymore, guys.

So, DOA5 happens after all that time and they were like "Yeah, things got kind of ridiculous" and I'm like "Yes, they did. Glad you realized." I didn't take "toning it down" to mean "removing all sex appeal". Part of the coolness was it being sexy. Ninjas and explosions and flying cars and I'm like, "This is awesome. DOA is about to smack people in the face!" And then the Ayane vs. Hitomi video came out and suddenly fans were apparently like, "Why aren't their boobs bigger? MAKE THEM BIGGER DAMN IT! MOAR JIGGLE!!" And, I'm just like, "Are you plebes serious? Do you not see this hotness going on in front of your face? There are other things that make the game cool, you know? Jiggly boobs are only a small piece of the puzzle."

So, then they released the pre-order bikini pack. And, I said, fine. One set isn't gonna hurt anybody. And then, people found the super secret bikinis for Tina, Christie, and Lisa. And, I was like, sure. Work for your fanservice. And then the DLC started. And, then I was like, wait...something's wrong. And then it just kept getting worse. Ultimate came out, and they started making sure that you got good looks at the girls being vulnerable and panting in their character profile pictures. No. Bullshit. Being sexy is fine. Dumb pandering I can do without. But, it just didn't stop. The story mode was fine and took itself seriously. But, everything else surrounding the game became "Look at the hot, sweaty, women!" And then they were like, "We've got something that you've all been waiting for! GRAVURE VIDEOS!" Let's bring back Sixaxis jiggle!

Dafuq? And more bikinis, too. And it's never enough. People don't want anything more substantial than cheesecake. But, I'm gonna need something more substantial. What's the point in even having all these other features is all your going to promote is cheesecake? Yes, money is money. But, as game makers, you decide what type of game you want to create and how you want the game to be promoted. Sexy is more than just taking off your clothes. It's about attitude, too. Sometimes, subtlety goes a long way.

And now with maid outfits, nurses, etc. There's not even any personality in it anymore. Oh look, come to this fighting tournament. Oh, don't mind the fact that all of the girls are wearing towels.

What's the point? You're just mindless, waifu bullshit. Oh, look. A cute loli for no reason and no character development! Just like all the other shovelware. And people just throw all their money at it. Oh, look at how the softness engine makes the boobs look. I DON'T FUCKING CARE. And I kind of hate that so many people apparently are placated by it. Oh, if you want the full boob experience, you DEFINITELY need to go next-gen. Give me a break. If you want to just make a Japan only H-dating game filled with busty women and your blank, male protagonist, then do it. But, you decided to release a fighting game, worldwide. It should be about more than boobs. And you can't be neglecting half of your in-game fighters along the way. I want interesting characters, damn it. I want something deeper and less shallow. I don't need wish fulfillment.

That's enough of that. I'll post a more coherent, shorter, and technical post next time.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

I haven't read all the comments on that topic, but to sum up my idea : in DOA, I like the boob part, I like the fighting part, I just want both to be promoted equally.

 

[Tenryuga]

This game is not even sexy lol TN's idea of sexy is blasting you in the face with "fanservice". Maid outfits? 20 yr old girls in gym clothes? Fucking Pajama costume pack? Really now? TN should hire some new ppl on their character design team so some badass shit like this happens:

Ignore everyone that's not Hayate because they suck. Dude said I'm tired of being a lil bitch ass ninja; I'm gonna step my game up in DOA5LR let me look the part.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

You missed the point. Having a feature like that overall is dumb and can lead to future speculation that TN just does that type of shit for that purpose.

Okay so by that logic, a man's junk suddenly gaining physics and starts jiggling would be sexual by proxy? Or a man's muscles?

If that's the case then I don't seriously think you know what sexual is and where being hilarious means(Because I guess Bayonetta is basically fetish fuel station and no one ever sees her and believed she's so sexy, it becomes unsexy.)

 

[NinjaMonkey]

@Intelligent Alpha @oMASTER LEGENDo I dunno what you're talking about but it doesn't even seem tangentially related to anything. Cut it out.

Alright, I guess I can throw my hat in the ring now. Be forewarned. This is just me venting off the cuff so may contain salty language.

Over time, I've seen a lot of things coming out of Japan. And the more I payed attention, the more "shovelware" I noticed. It just seems like all of these manga, anime, visual novels, etc. just recycle the same characters repeatedly while changing the story slightly. And every anime season, there's, like, 12 harem anime. All with the same busty (and one flat-chested), doe-eyed, tropes fawning over the same lame, wish-fulfillment protagonist who doesn't even matter because the focus is all on how much everyone's boobs jiggle and when the next hot springs episode is. Over and over and over and over and over and over. So, yeah, that stuff doesn't interest me. But, it just keeps happening and people keep buying it. Oh, look, panty shots! Yay!

Liking sexy things is fine. But for me, I need more than that. People never try to mix it up and create interesting characters anymore. I don't need wish-fulfillment fantasy. I want interesting characters. I want things that are at least well written. But, it's like the majority of people don't care about that. As long as it has sexy, moe, waifu bullshit with an assortment of huge tits with different hair colors in it to make figures of and put on the half-naked (or naked) dakimakura and someone gets groped and they can never get married now. Over and over and over. And it's hella shallow. But, all of these companies just seem to push it out there like that's what they have to put out. I'm not even convinced that they want to anymore. It's just how it industry goes as a routine or something. It feels like they're not even trying anymore. And I think it's because the public isn't even making them try. Lowest common denominator, right?

Now, taking it back for a sec, I came upon DOA1 back in 98 or so for the PSX when my neighbor brought it over. Yeah, I looked at the boobs and were like lolwtflewd, but it had a cool atmosphere. The music was cool, the backgrounds were cool, the danger zones were cool, and I enjoyed the various characters (all of them). I geeked the fuck out over some ninja teleporting in a whirlwind of leaves and made sure I did an Izuna drop with Hayabusa at least once a round. And it was game over when I unlocked Ayane. She was, like, sparkly and shit. And she had this crazy spinning style and this rocking orchestral theme. This game oozed coolness for me. It had bikinis and stuff, but that was cool, too.

The stages got cooler in 2 and I thought that the costumes were really cool looking. Some of them could be considered sexy, but they all seemed to embody the characters or were just cool concepts. I really wondered why there were only images of the girls in swimsuits in the CG gallery. That actually made me angry. It's not that I disliked the swimsuits. I just thought it was odd to only have that.

DOA3 just seemed to be just badass. Yeah, the sexiness was still there, but all of the characters just seemed really cool and varied. And then DOAX happened and well... I could allow it as a side game. But, then look at what happened in DOA4. Leifang in DOA3 was all protecting kids from thugs and then in DOA4 it's like, "Oh, my boobs are so big that my tight shirt tore open. Oh, goodness me. Please don't grope me, sir." In DOA3, Kasumi's running for her life and sad that she can't go home and in DOA4, it's all "I'mma topless, pop singing mermaid! Wheeee!!" And Hitomi's ending and...

Spoiler: Uhhhh...

At this point, I'm older and not as easily impressed. Things like Christie's ending didn't bother me, though. That's Christie being Christie. But, the most of the other stuff just seemed dumb. It had nothing to do with anything. It was just pandering for no reason. I want a reason. DOAX2 happened and that was just...ew. This is not cool anymore, guys.

So, DOA5 happens after all that time and they were like "Yeah, things got kind of ridiculous" and I'm like "Yes, they did. Glad you realized." I didn't take "toning it down" to mean "removing all sex appeal". Part of the coolness was it being sexy. Ninjas and explosions and flying cars and I'm like, "This is awesome. DOA is about to smack people in the face!" And then the Ayane vs. Hitomi video came out and suddenly fans were apparently like, "Why aren't their boobs bigger? MAKE THEM BIGGER DAMN IT! MOAR JIGGLE!!" And, I'm just like, "Are you plebes serious? Do you not see this hotness going on in front of your face? There are other things that make the game cool, you know? Jiggly boobs are only a small piece of the puzzle."

So, then they released the pre-order bikini pack. And, I said, fine. One set isn't gonna hurt anybody. And then, people found the super secret bikinis for Tina, Christie, and Lisa. And, I was like, sure. Work for your fanservice. And then the DLC started. And, then I was like, wait...something's wrong. And then it just kept getting worse. Ultimate came out, and they started making sure that you got good looks at the girls being vulnerable and panting in their character profile pictures. No. Bullshit. Being sexy is fine. Dumb pandering I can do without. But, it just didn't stop. The story mode was fine and took itself seriously. But, everything else surrounding the game became "Look at the hot, sweaty, women!" And then they were like, "We've got something that you've all been waiting for! GRAVURE VIDEOS!" Let's bring back Sixaxis jiggle!

Dafuq? And more bikinis, too. And it's never enough. People don't want anything more substantial than cheesecake. But, I'm gonna need something more substantial. What's the point in even having all these other features is all your going to promote is cheesecake? Yes, money is money. But, as game makers, you decide what type of game you want to create and how you want the game to be promoted. Sexy is more than just taking off your clothes. It's about attitude, too. Sometimes, subtlety goes a long way.

And now with maid outfits, nurses, etc. There's not even any personality in it anymore. Oh look, come to this fighting tournament. Oh, don't mind the fact that all of the girls are wearing towels.

What's the point? You're just mindless, waifu bullshit. Oh, look. A cute loli for no reason and no character development! Just like all the other shovelware. And people just throw all their money at it. Oh, look at how the softness engine makes the boobs look. I DON'T FUCKING CARE. And I kind of hate that so many people apparently are placated by it. Oh, if you want the full boob experience, you DEFINITELY need to go next-gen. Give me a break. If you want to just make a Japan only H-dating game filled with busty women and your blank, male protagonist, then do it. But, you decided to release a fighting game, worldwide. It should be about more than boobs. And you can't be neglecting half of your in-game fighters along the way. I want interesting characters, damn it. I want something deeper and less shallow. I don't need wish fulfillment.

That's enough of that. I'll post a more coherent, shorter, and technical post next time.

I want something deeper and less shallow.

But seriously as a long time doa player myself i agree on everything that you wrote!

 

[Yurlungur]

Okay so by that logic, a man's junk suddenly gaining physics and starts jiggling would be sexual by proxy? Or a man's muscles?

Muscles depends on the context but junk yeah, it would.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Okay so by that logic, a man's junk suddenly gaining physics and starts jiggling would be sexual by proxy? Or a man's muscles?

If that's the case then I don't seriously think you know what sexual is and where being hilarious means(Because I guess Bayonetta is basically fetish fuel station and no one ever sees her and believed she's so sexy, it becomes unsexy.)

Adding an actual feature to a man's junk is pointless and leads to even more speculation to where they are going. No one cares about that. "Body" muscles and a man's pipe is 2 different things.

You completely threw it out so I brought it back with a magic marker and a crayola set. Having other modes besides OMG can reduce the other off assumptions about the tits flopping. Doing so can lead the thoughts of "Oh, so they actually focus on other things besides the ridiculous tits magic."

If that's the case then I think you don't take this game seriously as a fighting game then.

 

[CyberEvil]

It's not too much. It's still down several notches from past iterations with a couple of exceptions (win poses and lose poses in particular). The current amount is directly due to fans asking for more and being upset with the focus on action and coolness when the game was announced. They tried to appeal to the hardcore out of the gate, got smacked with a huge backlash from casuals, and tried to find a middle ground. I think they did amazingly well.

 

[werewolfgold]

Sure, I could play something else. But this game is fun. And I'm sure more of my friends would play it (especially some of my girlfriends) if it had more... how to put this? Aesthetically pleasing, yet less revealing outfits. More outfits that say "I'm powerful and sexy etc. but I'm not ready for a creampie closeup."

This game is not even sexy lol TN's idea of sexy is blasting you in the face with "fanservice". Maid outfits? 20 yr old girls in gym clothes? Fucking Pajama costume pack? Really now?

Yeah. Looking back, maybe my long-ass post can be summed up as Team Ninja needs to tweak what their idea of sexy is.

Of course, I admit, this would be just to suit my sensibilities.

I think next time, I'll use my long ass posting powers to look at how different FGs are marketed and if their "fanservice" is truly comparable to DOA, as some would claim. Maybe it is. Maybe DOA is just getting a bad rap. I'll try to look into it.

 

[lotr9690]

Yeah. Looking back, maybe my long-ass post can be summed up as Team Ninja needs to tweak what their idea of sexy is.

Of course, I admit, this would be just to suit my sensibilities.

I think next time, I'll use my long ass posting powers to look at how different FGs are marketed and if their "fanservice" is truly comparable to DOA, as some would claim. Maybe it is. Maybe DOA is just getting a bad rap. I'll try to look into it.

You're post was amazing. I feel like framing it. (By the way, this is the last gif I'm posting; sorry guys it was perfect though)
You're post basically said:

And you don't need to re-examine anything. You were totally in line and you honored you're feelings. And it was awesome.

 

[just_me]

They haven't done that much that hasn't been done before, have they? Bikinis, Maids, overalls with nothing underneath, adjustable boob physics, some suggestive stuff... nothing really new. They just slap every fetish outfit on almost every girl, and release a Bikini set, whenever they make some sort of relevant update to the game (beach stage -> have some bikinis, vita release-> have some more etc.)
I think one of the main reasons past iterations had less fetish and fanservice outfits is... because they had significantly less outfits overall (e.g DoA3 had 3-4 different outfits/char and DoA4 had roughly the same number of actually different outfits as well)

About male DLC
You might remember that the initial DLC for 5U wasn't that bad (except the pre-order bikini sets we get with every release)... that school set was half decent and there were some male costumes in the next couple of sets... but then it suddenly stopped and we only got female "sexy" DLC. You might say that just got lazy... but I guess the truth is that hardly anyone bought the stuff for the males (and maybe the less revealing for the girls as well)
I'd like to see some sales for the latest Halloween DLC... pretty sure there is not a single male outfit in the top 10 and I guess only Mila and Sarah might prevent a male-only bottom of the sales chart.

Marketing
Where does the idea come from that there major sales argument for LR ist the "soft engine"? It's not even mentioned in any of the official videos, or the non-japanese site for the game (and it's not that easy to spot on the japanese site either) And when did that feature actually turn into a physics thing? Wasn't it some graphic improvement? Like some (better) SSS or something... I mean a sweating Rig is one of the sample images... showcasing boob physics with a still image of a guy is probably not that effective.
The only person that talked a lot about the soft engine is Hayashi, no? Nothing good ever happens when he is the only guy that talks about the game lol

General Perception (and the FGC)
Yeah "the damage has been done", but that happened before DoA5. I guess the main culprits are DoA1, 2U and 4... well and DoAX(especially 2) put the final nail in the coffin... as far as I can think back DoA has always been the "titty fighter with no depth" for most. Sure the current situation does not help at all (especially recycle "the worst" DoAX assets), since it's super easy for people to find stuff that reinforces there opinion, but imo nothing but a real 180° turn could help with that (and we know what happened after the attempted ... say 60° turn random note: even the person that made the facebook comment Itagaki replied to complained about this back then "Give me Kasumi's big boobs back" and so on...)

I also think that terms like "Digital whore house", or "soft core porn" are a little too harsh even for the current DoA, no? Most stuff is still pretty tame... pretty sure the criteria defining a whore is not "having a bunch of skimpy outfits" and if I try to think of a sexual explicit equivalent of a MK fatality... it's not just a girl in a dental floss bikini...

Bayonetta
... I love Bayonetta XD
So according to Jim it's okay to wear any kind of "slutty" outfit it the character is more sexual? Like it's OK for Christie, Tina, Nyotengu etc. but not say Kokoro... there is Bayonetta's default outfit that fits her character, but most of the other unlockable stuff in the first game was the same fetish "crap" we have for DoA... Swimsuit, Bikini, Cheerleader, PE uniform, extra slutty witch... don't see any real story or character justification for those either...

I could certainly live with less "sexy" DLC (or less DLC in general) and I think the the sixaxis boob jiggle and gravure vids are totally out of place... well they use at least some of that money to raise pots in tournaments, so it's not all bad XD
They could turn the fanservice down a notch imo, but I don't see it as "out of control" as some others.

 

[Kasumi-Phase-X]

When it comes to the whole Too Much Sexualization for how far DOA5 is, I really think this is not as much compare to other games from Japanese or Western, even other media when it came to sexual content. There are stuff out there I think is much worst even to the point where DOA has never reach such a degree or do something that would automatically give them 18+ rating or include content that would be consider forbidden.

To Me personally with the whole costumes plus DLC is almost nothing different comparing to the past series (including Xtreme series), I will say for certain that the DLC method is flawed outside the whole swimsuits, maids, schools etc. has to do with character choices from giving outfits that make it feel out of place like Non-Japanese females (excluding Hitomi & Marie Rose) are wearing P.E. Outfits which originated from Japanese Schools which I would consider a dumb choice for DLC (especially there are other Gym outfits besides the Japanese Schools, and TN is capable enough giving characters different outfits), and then there the Towels (Tina, Ayane, NyoTengu, Helena, & Rachel) which really didn't make much sense from a costume perspective (I think would fit better in bath scenes or gravure scene). Another thing is that they've also been not giving characters like Lisa, Christie, Rachel, or Momiji as much costumes compare to other females (which some gets way more) which ignoring other characters including certain females is not a good decision, there are other outfits from past games or make few originals they could do to add variety. I think there were good choices for DLC outfits (there are still ones I've thought was not a great choices when it came to characters), I think they've have variety (especially color choices for each characters), and thought was worth it. I will never consider DLC methods as perfect, I think there is much more they really should do and make improvements. I've had a conversation about the whole costume thing where the majority of DLC outfits are pretty much pallet swaps just with different colors not adding differences for certain characters, (kinda like part of the custom items from TTT2) along with his thought with the current producer on how he handles with his work (besides costume choices).

The majority of people who aren't into this stuff from the internet, gaming community, or other FGC are just being oversensitive, plain delusional, doesn't understand, or just making stuff that is not remotely true (I've dealt with this before) even these people just don't even know when to leave it alone, or have the need to make a comment just because there is a comment section in there they wouldn't ignore something they don't like, (which if they don't like the sex appeal I wouldn't have a problem, and shouldn't keep visiting topics like this along with making illogical statements) which I've always fought against. These people take it too personal like this game will effect your life style or how people will look at you because of the fact you play DOA (which is not true). I think the majority of communities or forms doesn't do anything (or as much) to these arrogant people away from comment sections. It just makes Me wonder, "What ever happen just ignoring games you don't like?" or "Just support the game you enjoy."

What I do think matters way more is players loving the game for what it is whether they enjoy the sex appeal or wouldn't mind still playing the game despite the sex appeal it has to offer (even if they're not into this kind of stuff & are playing the game for gameplay alone), many other reasons that players may have to be playing DOA other than sex appeal content. You can never please everyone, no matter how much you want to balance between casuals & fans. Trying appealing to everyone (including ones that weren't into DOA in the first place) is something I wouldn't consider going for, since its an established series along with not making the similar mistake they've did with NG3. I think DOA5 have made enough changes from the previous game along with having different options from dirt/sweat & breast physics.

I do think DOA doesn't need changes when it came to sexual content. But there are stuff out there from gameplay, content, character costumes (plus DLC), & details which TN needs to improve or make it better.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Muscles depends on the context but junk yeah, it would.

But that depends on the type of underwear as well INCLUDING the pants region. I see no reason for Ryu's junk to be bouncing around due to tight ass spandex and even for underoos that allows it, if you are wearing baggy pants, it will be VERY hard to notice on top of that...so unless you also want all male characters to get huge ass porn star dicks...

Adding an actual feature to a man's junk is pointless and leads to even more speculation to where they are going. No one cares about that. "Body" muscles and a man's pipe is 2 different things.

You completely threw it out so I brought it back with a magic marker and a crayola set. Having other modes besides OMG can reduce the other off assumptions about the tits flopping. Doing so can lead the thoughts of "Oh, so they actually focus on other things besides the ridiculous tits magic."

If that's the case then I think you don't take this game seriously as a fighting game then.

And they do have other modes besides OMG mode, there's OFF, Natural and DOA. Hell, last tourney had it switched to OFF and that makes sense.
I don't see how just the mode alone is supposed to be super sexy when most of the time, I just laugh. All it reminds me of is the easter egg of DOA2 and you need to unlock ON TOP of that(which most people won't always aim for considering you need to lose 10 different times with 10 different characters) and that took me forever to bother unlocking.

And finally, stop it...
I seriously don't get the "if you are/aren't okay, you aren't a serious fan" type logic. It doesn't prove anything and it pretty much just tossing opinions and shit flinging and that's completely pointless. I only brought it up to counter your point and you yourself is bringing it up as if I'm dead serious. You need to take a step back and realize not everything that seems to be done for fanservice can only be seen as such.

 

[DestructionBomb]

But that depends on the type of underwear as well INCLUDING the pants region. I see no reason for Ryu's junk to be bouncing around due to tight ass spandex and even for underoos that allows it, if you are wearing baggy pants, it will be VERY hard to notice on top of that...so unless you also want all male characters to get huge ass porn star dicks...



And they do have other modes besides OMG mode, there's OFF, Natural and DOA. Hell, last tourney had it switched to OFF and that makes sense.
I don't see how just the mode alone is supposed to be super sexy when most of the time, I just laugh. All it reminds me of is the easter egg of DOA2 and you need to unlock ON TOP of that(which most people won't always aim for considering you need to lose 10 different times with 10 different characters) and that took me forever to bother unlocking.

And finally, stop it...
I seriously don't get the "if you are/aren't okay, you aren't a serious fan" type logic. It doesn't prove anything and it pretty much just tossing opinions and shit flinging and that's completely pointless. I only brought it up to counter your point and you yourself is bringing it up as if I'm dead serious. You need to take a step back and realize not everything that seems to be done for fanservice can only be seen as such.

Again, it's all based on 1 particular area.

And finally, drop it.
You only counter what I said because you just accept shit the way it is. Also I'm taking steps forward, not back.

 

[David Gregg]

The DLC model has and will continue to be TN's strongest argument for why they will continue to endorse the sexualization of their ladies. The voices telling them they've gone too far are drowned out by the $$$ they bring in with the swimsuits, gravure vids, etc... So when you say "Stop making so many fetish packs!" TN sees it as "Stop making so much money!".

This is why the topic has become a mute point. It's the direction TN is taking and they will continue to do so until it no longer succeeds. The way I see it, I don't download DLC fetish packs or swimsuits (unless I like them) so looking at it from another perspective, the game allows you to put in as much or as little sexiness as you want in it.

Cosmetics is one fight I'm not willing to get into with TN. Now content equality (like STAGES!!!) on the other hand for all consoles...

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Again, it's all based on 1 particular area.

And finally, drop it.
You only counter what I said because you just accept shit the way it is. Also I'm taking steps forward, not back.

How the fuck am I accepting it the way it is? Did you not read what I stated before all this nonsense? No fucking wonder no one wants to talk about this shit, it's basically "my way or get the fuck out".

Let me make my stance clear: I do find there is a such thing as too much, this game hasn't hit that yet. The DLC is getting to be too much, but taking away what the game is in general is pretty much just ruining what it IS. They SHOULD focus on fighting more than the sexy, so yes, I am gonna drop this because at this rate, it's becoming a stupid boom tube in which everyone will be seen on one side of the fence or the other.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

How the fuck am I accepting it the way it is? Did you not read what I stated before all this nonsense? No fucking wonder no one wants to talk about this shit, it's basically "my way or get the fuck out".

Let me make my stance clear: I do find there is a such thing as too much, this game hasn't hit that yet. The DLC is getting to be too much, but taking away what the game is in general is pretty much just ruining what it IS. They SHOULD focus on fighting more than the sexy, so yes, I am gonna drop this because at this rate, it's becoming a stupid boom tube in which everyone will be seen on one side of the fence or the other.

No different than the other two huge debates/arguments on here!