RoboJoe
Well-Known Member
Already happening at my next local tournament on Dec 15th.
Balance 240 vs 300 life
- Thread starter TRI Mike
- Start date
Already happening at my next local tournament on Dec 15th.
ScattereDreams
Well-Known Member
Was going to ask what is the argument on why players want 240 - 270 health settings.. I guess this will suffice; strangely I remember players a while ago arguing "stop trying to make DOA play like other fighters". Even though I don't agree I'll give it try. However, I don't think it's going to make players play more efficient.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
Well, in my small and humble group, we've been improving a LOT ever since we reduced life to 240. We were playing decently in vanilla (also in 240), but since Ultimate came out, we tried 300 just to see why the fuck TN decided to enlarge the life again. In a matter of a few weeks, we were all basically playing DOA4. We played the stun game and held like retards no matter who we played. Frame data didn't matter, the stages neither just like being safe and poking. After a while I had to step up and say "stop it" to @Tulkas who was simply too scared to play 240 because he was gonna travel to TFC and his experience from the tournament.
Now playing in smallest is making me play in an intelligent way against his Brad and he actually fears what Tina can do to him. Even the new players we're teaching are improving very fast and using a lot of logical things you'd see in games such as Tekken or Virtua Fighter. 240 is simply better.
Now playing in smallest is making me play in an intelligent way against his Brad and he actually fears what Tina can do to him. Even the new players we're teaching are improving very fast and using a lot of logical things you'd see in games such as Tekken or Virtua Fighter. 240 is simply better.
The next tournament I'm attending and possibly semi-hosting in my scene will be running 240 HP. No more 300.
I played casuals yesterday entirely at 240 HP and everything just felt right. After the first match, I instantly discovered that 300 HP is what's wrong with 5U currently more than anything. People are able to get away with way too much bullshit and rarely get properly punished for anything. Punishment is crucial now. In 240 HP, if I miss a punishment opportunity, I'm essentially giving my opponent a new lease on life. Movement and footsies actually matter now. I lost rounds yesterday for whiffing at a bad time, resulting in a deadly wall combo. Oki is rarely an issue now because there is literally 1 oki situation in most rounds (2 if your opponent makes a comeback). The smallest combos now do real damage. Ayane takes about a 1/3 of your health bar or more from basically any launch, so I don't even have to play the stun game with her much anymore (though I didn't much in Vanilla either). Hold damage is also surprisingly fair because Hi-counter throws are now absolutely brutal from almost anyone.
I'm telling you 240HP is hype and as bonus, I may even have generated a bit more interest in the game in my scene.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
Someone I just played with was just amazed that a simple setup with Hitomi took so much life after just two mistakes by her opponent. The set-up is:
Everything happened after he guessed wrong and held, I grabbed him for a HCT Hasai which left 'Tomi at +10, then he guessed wrong again and was hit by the high kick which gave me an unholdable set-up for the launching string and the huge juggle. I think the total damage of all that is around 180. It's pretty amazing.
In 300¿ that only takes about half life after the opponent made two wrong guesses and failed to slow escape the string that causes the launch.
Everything happened after he guessed wrong and held, I grabbed him for a HCT Hasai which left 'Tomi at +10, then he guessed wrong again and was hit by the high kick which gave me an unholdable set-up for the launching string and the huge juggle. I think the total damage of all that is around 180. It's pretty amazing.
In 300¿ that only takes about half life after the opponent made two wrong guesses and failed to slow escape the string that causes the launch.
As someone who is playing online in most cases, I got the problem that there are not many European lobby's with a connection that is acceptable for fighting, so I often have to create a lobby by myself and hope someone is joining.
In this case, I usually chose the actual normal hitpoint setting due to the fact, that fights are ways to long with any other setting imo, but there are always some people who claim after a couple of fights that I should change it to largest setting, because "one bad guess can make you loose the fight".
Even if I hope its not like that, currently it seems for me that most European players on xbl wont like 240hp, but of course this is surely not the place where DOA5 is played most.
In this case, I usually chose the actual normal hitpoint setting due to the fact, that fights are ways to long with any other setting imo, but there are always some people who claim after a couple of fights that I should change it to largest setting, because "one bad guess can make you loose the fight".
Even if I hope its not like that, currently it seems for me that most European players on xbl wont like 240hp, but of course this is surely not the place where DOA5 is played most.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
That was fantastic.
LOL online players sometimes.... "One bad guess can make you lose the fight". THAT'S THE BLOODY POINT xD! You gotta play smart, safely and read your opponent. Whenever I see a lobby with LARGE or LARGEST health, and/or Tag, I can't play serious in it and just troll the room. On the bright side I played in a couple rooms with 240 HP this week and it's fantastic as long as the connection is agreeable of course!
TakedaZX
Well-Known Member
Maybe not but that comes with balancing the other aspects of the game. I think the big thing to look at is the utility of the hold though and more importantly frame advantage on NH (for some moves, like Ein's 3P as an immediate example. Obviously not something like 2K for him. With that being an unseeable low, it'd be ludicrous for it to be even neutral on NH hit). Once that aspect is added, you've got reason for players to respect their disadvantage and you're not getting bullshitted out for:
As quoted by Lopedo: "punching someone in the fuck".
Couple that with good damage off of small stun to launch situations and another aspect of the game: Vanilla Gravity, then you'll have people thinking twice before random holding, attacking from disadvantage (after getting hit) and it would promote more offensive for those with good fundamentals. I admit I have bad fundamentals but it's because I only play DOA in a serious state of mind. I end up hitting a button because subconsciously I know that if someone hits me with something on NH, chances are on the next exchange, I can beat them out with a jab or 6p because they're probably at -12 for that free cancel.
These are the three R's (aspects) that will change the way "scrubs" will play. Respect (advantage), Realization (juggle damage), and Rememberance (health)
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As a genfu user I love 240 but I strongly disagree with it being a tournament standard.
Musourenka
Active Member
270 is fine, but I really like the pacing of 240.
Also, block-and-punish becomes a real thing even for non-grapplers.
Also, block-and-punish becomes a real thing even for non-grapplers.
Number 13
Well-Known Member
Whatever is decided for 240/270/300 life it has to be unanimously agreed upon for the most part. Otherwise any serious splits of preference won't benefit this community.
I never liked how people can change the amount of total life on a whim, should have forced everyone to play a single "standard" life (whatever generally preferred amount that is) to prevent certain people drastically changing the match flow. Like going in several matches at 240 life, get used to it, but then have to adjust to a 300+ life preferred opponents which just cause headaches.
Shouldn't there be a poll for this by now? Or are we over that since the "Alpha banned" poll didn't really take off?
I never liked how people can change the amount of total life on a whim, should have forced everyone to play a single "standard" life (whatever generally preferred amount that is) to prevent certain people drastically changing the match flow. Like going in several matches at 240 life, get used to it, but then have to adjust to a 300+ life preferred opponents which just cause headaches.
Shouldn't there be a poll for this by now? Or are we over that since the "Alpha banned" poll didn't really take off?
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One of my friends (takedaz) said he liked 240 life too. Until I showed him what genfu could do. The pace of a 240 fight against genfu will be really fastending in death. 270 is fine too though
-Yes, Yes and an Infinite of Yes!!!!! You know what, the 4point system do not deter from the overall experience truthfully.
-This is nothing but the truth. There are many in the FGC that see DOA5U as being a sloppy VF5FS. I totally agree with them when the game is set on 300pt life settings. Like you said, on 240pts, players are using a lot of logical thinking...they are forced to do so like said games!!!! This is what we need.
Musourenka
Active Member
Admittedly, I don't know Gen Fu's full potential, but as long as it's not a one-hit-death situation, is that necessarily a bad thing?
Not a bad thing for me lmao. Its not one hit death but he's insane