Yeah, that's true. I don't really use the move much, but I suppose I should.
Regardless, anything is better than that hold3P move.
Marie Rose update will surely bring general changes
- Thread starter TRI Mike
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Regardless, anything is better than that hold3P move.
DontForkWitMe
Well-Known Member
no way they'd let a i17 attack like that be that powerful especially since he gets it guaranteed off his 3k sitdown, only way i see it happening is if they make 214p chargeable and it causes super launcher height at full charge, which would make his power launcher useless and break the balancing since he'll have access to an infinite amount of power launcher opportunities without having to be at red health.
Also whats all this hate for 3(hold)P? move is solid and gives a lift stun on NH, and a launch that gives him access to air throws on CH. Never had a problem with it coming out on accident either since being an eliot player that input is ingrained into me and i do the instant version of it when i want to use it
Yeah. I figured as much. Again, just a thought.
Honestly, "270" life and the aggressive ground game was a good fit for DOA5 Vanilla. We REALLY need that kind of pace back for DOA. And of course, the WUK (Wake up kick) should be even weaker with less range, too. I'm definitely on board with WUK NOT being allowed to stun, not even on hi counter hit.
DOA5U's oki makes you back off and play defense against the defender on the ground, which is very dumb. Only a select few as of right now can seriously keep up aggression during oki (my sub can do it too well, I have pseudo ground game with Ayane but I'm still working on it). A chance for an aggressive ground game should be universal and not exclusive to just a few in the cast.
270 would be my own preference to our health bar for DOA5. However, I am okay with 240 or 270. My character can do 102-103 damage through a few stun > launch combos (just one stun, I don't need further threshold at all and without a wall or environment) on majority of the cast. So it makes no difference to me, lol.
DOA5U's oki makes you back off and play defense against the defender on the ground, which is very dumb. Only a select few as of right now can seriously keep up aggression during oki (my sub can do it too well, I have pseudo ground game with Ayane but I'm still working on it). A chance for an aggressive ground game should be universal and not exclusive to just a few in the cast.
270 would be my own preference to our health bar for DOA5. However, I am okay with 240 or 270. My character can do 102-103 damage through a few stun > launch combos (just one stun, I don't need further threshold at all and without a wall or environment) on majority of the cast. So it makes no difference to me, lol.
No because you could just chain it indefinitely or get a different guaranteed launch off of it. Furthermore, it would guarantee a PB, etc.
Honestly, how many times do you land a non-tracking mid on NH? From stun (or on CH) 3P provides the stun you need, is faster and safer with the possibility of the second string-hit. Aside from that, 3holdP is just another mid punch in his vast array of mid-punches that people are trying to hold all the time except that it's not nearly as impressive as all the others. Add to that those of us who do get the fudged input get punished for it, and in the end it just isn't all the useful for the headache it causes.
No because the unholdable stun that your opponent would be in after the ceiling hit would net you way more damage than anything you could have done with a normal 214P launch.
On NH, for most weight classes, Leon's best followup to 214P is simply his air throw. If it caused a ceiling it though, you could land the move, sending your opponent into the ceiling and back to the ground into an unholable stun. From there, Leon could fully charge P+KT, into an air throw, or just do a PB.
So, without ceiling:
214P, T
With ceiling:
214P, P+KT, T - or 214P, PB
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FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
Aren't wake up kicks punishable on block? I see a lot of stuff about them in this version, and it's kinda confusing me a bit. I personally still find being the one on the floor daunting, solely cause if they block it I'm at a disadvantage, and there's a possibility of them countering too. Most people I know still tech roll, it's the smarter option to wake up kicking imo. There's less of a chance of being damaged through teching than wake up kicking. The fact people are taking the risk to wake up kick, gives them the right to gain some reward if it hits buuuut that's just my opinion on the matter.
What's annoying is that they also limit you after threshold. For example, with Ryu I can do CB->PL->minithreshold->Shoho Izuna
That mini-threshold chokes before I can achieve a second CB since I hit the ceiling once before with a PL. Makes his roof set-ups kinda wonky.
If I'm not mistaken, ceiling hits are no longer techable. They were in previous games, but not in DOA5/DOA5U.
Juihau
Well-Known Member
If I'm not mistaken, that mini-threshold is specifically so you can't get a CB twice in one combo. It works fine if you just raw PL and then go into CB, doesn't it?
I believe you can't tech throws/holds/PLs, but can with regular strikes.
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That's no fun...
Codemaster92163
Well-Known Member
Going to do the obvious thing here and say what I think Pai could use.
Her 66H+K to go back to whatever recovery it had before 5U. As it is now, she lost a lot of guaranteed options and juggles from it, so that would be nice to get back.
Less - frames on blocked MS P, so using MS PP would actually work instead of always being beaten out, and less - frames on her 3PKH cancel, so it could be used as legitimate mix-up.
Continuation from SS P, SS K, or both.
Make the first 3 hits of MS H+KP function like Helena's 3-in-ones.
If they're feeling generous, it would be great if 3P would track.
And apart from a few small things which they would never do, that's fine with me. She's a very solid character as is, so as long as there's no nerfs, I'm fine.
Her 66H+K to go back to whatever recovery it had before 5U. As it is now, she lost a lot of guaranteed options and juggles from it, so that would be nice to get back.
Less - frames on blocked MS P, so using MS PP would actually work instead of always being beaten out, and less - frames on her 3PKH cancel, so it could be used as legitimate mix-up.
Continuation from SS P, SS K, or both.
Make the first 3 hits of MS H+KP function like Helena's 3-in-ones.
If they're feeling generous, it would be great if 3P would track.
And apart from a few small things which they would never do, that's fine with me. She's a very solid character as is, so as long as there's no nerfs, I'm fine.
Character changes:
Leon - Nerf this fucker hard.
Ryu - Give him at least one more way of doing Izuna.
Marie Rose - Switch her skin with that of the image of Tengu. I don't care if they skin him on Eliot's body at this point. Whatever saves them money, you know?
Ein - BUFF HIS ASS! I want to see Offbeat at tournaments.
System Changes:
The GWOUND game. Damn this world because of this atrocious ground game. Bounds that go into force techs, omg! Why the fuck do I have to work so hard to get a god damned force tech? The opponent who earned a spot on the ground is rewarded with a free guessing game courtesy of the man that outsmarted him.
Oh, you fell? Here's a gold star courtesy of Team Ninja themselves.
Weights:
Have you seen the weight list? Just look at it... you ain't trippin I promise you that. Pai is heavier than a lot of the girls... she holds her weight in well... My guess is they fucked up big time in the process of developing the game and they got so far into development they couldn't get out of it and nothing can be done about it.
And my god whoever thought Helena was such a dinosaur?
Leon - Nerf this fucker hard.
Ryu - Give him at least one more way of doing Izuna.
Marie Rose - Switch her skin with that of the image of Tengu. I don't care if they skin him on Eliot's body at this point. Whatever saves them money, you know?
Ein - BUFF HIS ASS! I want to see Offbeat at tournaments.
System Changes:
The GWOUND game. Damn this world because of this atrocious ground game. Bounds that go into force techs, omg! Why the fuck do I have to work so hard to get a god damned force tech? The opponent who earned a spot on the ground is rewarded with a free guessing game courtesy of the man that outsmarted him.
Oh, you fell? Here's a gold star courtesy of Team Ninja themselves.
Weights:
Have you seen the weight list? Just look at it... you ain't trippin I promise you that. Pai is heavier than a lot of the girls... she holds her weight in well... My guess is they fucked up big time in the process of developing the game and they got so far into development they couldn't get out of it and nothing can be done about it.
And my god whoever thought Helena was such a dinosaur?
Yes, they are punishable on block, you are at disadvantage while teching up anyway. But WUKs still have too much priority and range, and "no one" can hold a WUK on reaction "all the time". Honestly, most of the time WUKs are being held so well, the aggressor is just conditioning you to do one so they hold the expected WUK, it's not always something players are always doing on reaction.
Low WUKs are low throw punishable on block.
The main problem is that WUKs still have too much priority on them, so players back off so that they don't deal with the whole "I knocked you down but I have to fear a wake up kick and be wary of two hit levels and their range" bullshit".
DOA5U's current ground game is terrible, everyone knows this and will agree that it sucks. It favors the player that was knocked down more than it does the aggressor. It needs to be redone. I say DOA5 vanilla's was solid, and that it should be brought back. It allowed the aggressor to keep their offensive momentum.
Now it's just like "The fuck happens now?
"
So if I am unsatisfied with something in the game and suggest an alteration, I'm "stupid" and "pathetic" for "never [being] happy with the game," but when you you do it, TN must be wrong and critiques/criticisms are encouraged?
Make sense.
I would disagree with that. The standing opponent can choose to back off or go up close for the meta-game. That puts the decision of where the flow of the battle goes into their hand. Choosing the former is typically neutral, unless you have a character with terrible spacing.
Furthermore, certain characters are better/worse and utlizing the ground game. People like Helena can maintain pressure with FTs and whatnot, multiple characters can jump over their opponent if they decide to go with a WU kick (though discerning what hit level on the fly is difficult, waiting for the animation and blanketing both is not). Other characters like Ryu/Hayate can crush both WU kicks with a single option and punish, Sarah's stance transition crushes lows, parries mid Ks and leaves her safe (or at +) if they tech/block, 2K/2P options typically beat out a WU, etc.
The favor remains on the aggressor's side, it's just not as much as it should be. The standing opponent has more options, gets better reward from them, and controls the spacing/timing that both players are looking at to choose what option they will go with.
I agree with this.
No.
Mid K Shoho. You have no idea how much hell I'd raise with that.
Backing off because we know how it is with WUKs does not favor the aggressor. It leaves both players at neutral, this resets the situation.
It is because if the standing person backs off just out of range, the grounded opponent must either tech up or whiff a WU kick, both of which leave them at neutral. Different characters can capitalize on that better or worse, but at bare minimum it gives you the chance to re-orient the fighting space several degrees to have their back to a wall/cliff or other more desirable area. At best, you are in a mid-range game with slight frame advantage. Again, benefits, just not as good as they should be. And yes, it is largely character-dependent how much you're getting out of it.