*coughs*Forced Techs*coughs*
Competitive balance: DOA5U mechanics changes
- Thread starter Berzerk!
- Start date
d3v
Well-Known Member
The oki in this game is dumb now that most FTs are gone. As a primarily 2D player, they were one of the few things in any 3D fighter I've played that gave me something close to the oki tricks in 2D fighters that you could use to keep the pressure on after knocking down an opponent. Force techs reminded me very much of safe jumps in SF where you'd make it so that your opponent had no choice but to block on wakeup. Right now, it feels like, outside of using Rachel, knockdowns just halt whatever momentum you've gained since you're forced to play the wake up kick guessing game.
EDIT:
Here's an interesting observation. The general lack of frame advantage in DOA5 mirrors the situation in SFIV/SSFIV where any extended pressure is unsafe due to how large the reversal windows are. This is why, in both games, there was the trend to pressure post knockdown. SFIV did it via safe jumps, cross ups and vortex, DOA5 had force techs. Removing this pressure off knockdown results in the game slowing down drastically (which is why you don't really see top SFIV players asking for the outright removal of vortex... at least not without drasitcally changing the neutral game).
EDIT:
Here's an interesting observation. The general lack of frame advantage in DOA5 mirrors the situation in SFIV/SSFIV where any extended pressure is unsafe due to how large the reversal windows are. This is why, in both games, there was the trend to pressure post knockdown. SFIV did it via safe jumps, cross ups and vortex, DOA5 had force techs. Removing this pressure off knockdown results in the game slowing down drastically (which is why you don't really see top SFIV players asking for the outright removal of vortex... at least not without drasitcally changing the neutral game).
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I agree. The oki game in particular is aggravating when playing on the "LARGE" health setting. I cannot describe how frustrating it is to pull off a combo that leaves the opponent with a small amount of health and I still have to put up with the wake-up kick bullshit. Removing FT's was a stupid move that removes the momentum from the aggressor and punishes them for scoring a knockdown.
By and large, outside of Tag matches, I don't really seem to care for any of the changes in DOA5U's mechanics. I find the new bound state to be really, really dumb and irritating.
FTs aren't gone. They're just weird and horribly random now.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Vortex's are as good as nerfed come next SFIV revision.
The ground game is still intact mostly, just that a player on the ground can risk using the wake up kick. They either risk taking damage/force teched staying on the ground, or teching themseves up and putting themselves at disadvantage on the ground.
d3v
Well-Known Member
Not really. They're taking unblockables out but IIRC Peter (Combofiend) from Capcom has stated that they believe vortex is part of SFIV.
Except we have less FTs this time out.
d3v
Well-Known Member
Except they've already stated that they want to buff the lower tiered characters to that level. Granted, that doesn't mean more vortex, but it does mean giving people comparable tools. Unlike the case with 5U where it feels like tools were taken out.
d3v
Well-Known Member
I said more tools, I didn't say post knockdown setups meant to limit an opponents options (I believe 'Gief already has some anyway). Right now, with 5U, certain things that characters had (like Helena's pft from bokuho) are no longer there.
d3v
Well-Known Member
No, instead of standing up after it, her opponent is back on the ground and can still force the ground guessing game unlike in vanilla 5 where they were forced up and had to defend. Maybe it's because I'm primarily a 2d guy, but I'm used to hard knockdowns being highly disadvantageous to the defending player - either through safe jumps, cross ups or flat out unblockable setups.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Max536Drago
Active Member
@TeamNINJAStudio #DOA5U The only thing honestly broken about Helena that I can think of is that her K is 12 frames. But you know when Helena has you in her trap where she's back turned and can go for her BT mid punches or low kick? That's a pretty crazy situation that's hard to get out of, especially since she has a mid kick launcher option. I wouldn't call this a nerf, but because Helena's offense is so ridiculous how about this. And it's universal. In Injustice Gods among us you can block mids with crouching guards. That's not what I want for DOA. -getting to the point- In Injustice only overhead attacks can hit crouching opponents. I think DOA should use that. Mid strikes that don't normally stun still should not stun even when hitting someone crouching. Only overhead attacks like for example: Hitomi's 6P should stun a crouching opponent. Helena's back turned mid punches does not look like an overhead attack, so if your trying to block her lows you won't have to worry about the mid punches anymore, except for her kick launcher (BT) and her back turned critical burst, which would be an overhead attack. I think it's a good idea. Less cheapness is good. I wrote a lot. Just trying to explain everything as best as possible.
I want the force tech game back as soon as possible. The wake-up game is quite insane, now more than ever before. I was really getting a grasp on force techs a couple months ago, and that has made for a strange adjustment period for me in this title. At this point, why would I not play as Rachel? She has a force tech that the worst player on the earth could utilize professionally, while everyone else seems to play the let's hope this works game.
Being floored shouldn't set you up for so many rewards. And when people say they like that DOA has no projectiles I just laugh. The legs on those wake up attacks ARE projectile attacks, but at least in SF they can be blocked!
And now that I have wake-up games on my mind, what the hell was with people doing mid wake ups on Helena at TFC?
Being floored shouldn't set you up for so many rewards. And when people say they like that DOA has no projectiles I just laugh. The legs on those wake up attacks ARE projectile attacks, but at least in SF they can be blocked!
And now that I have wake-up games on my mind, what the hell was with people doing mid wake ups on Helena at TFC?
Max536Drago
Active Member
I don't mind the new ground game. And about Rachel is that she should not get her force tech guaranteed and still be at advantage even when she whiffs it.
Break down the current ground game to me, and explain how it makes sense. Right now all it does in my opinion is encourage people to not play when someone is grounded, but to back away and reset the fight every time someone drops.
It's not satisfying at all to me.
Most (if not all) characters can still do something to force the other guy to tech. Just keep doing ground moves until the other guy gets angry and finally techs. Lack of force tech does make the game a lot slower, though.