Change of plans; Lisa is my new target and I'm gonna find as much as I can. I was going to do Christie first, but I'm having a lot of problems with the Lisa matchup, so I'm going to tackle her first.
DOA5 The Throw Punish Thread
- Thread starter UncleKitchener
- Start date
Mad respect to Ayane and Lisa players for stepping forward. Thank you.
More mandem need to expose character's cotton, yeaaaaah?
A little someting for London mans
More mandem need to expose character's cotton, yeaaaaah?
A little someting for London mans
Oh shit, yeah you can and It hits him during recovery too.
He can do the same against
too, though the timing is weird as you have to do it early and I don't think it's as practical.
He can do the same against
too, though the timing is weird as you have to do it early and I don't think it's as practical.Okay, I think is way more useful against Lisa since it circumvents pretty much 80 percent of her jumping mix-ups, including the ones with the OH, like he's some kind of wizard. You should try it out and see for yourselves.
I CAST MAGIC ELECTRIC HELL STAB
> roll d20
> 20
> +3 str modifier
> You disappear, only to reappear right behind your opponent, stabbing her in the back.
> It's super effective!
edit: Just saw Wah lose to a Sarah (we know who you are) so she'll be shifted forward in the list.
is way more useful against Lisa since it circumvents pretty much 80 percent of her jumping mix-ups, including the ones with the OH, like he's some kind of wizard. You should try it out and see for yourselves.I CAST MAGIC ELECTRIC HELL STAB
> roll d20
> 20
> +3 str modifier
> You disappear, only to reappear right behind your opponent, stabbing her in the back.
> It's super effective!
edit: Just saw Wah lose to a Sarah (we know who you are) so she'll be shifted forward in the list.
Characters with built-in mix-ups, especially in a game like this can be really shitty to deal with. However, as Bass there are some tools that would in most cases circumvent these mix-ups entirely, tools which most characters don't have access to (except characters like Bayman and Christie). Other than that, pretty much everything else punishable is either -8 or something slightly more punishable.
() () (+1)(-3)(-8) (NT)(T)(T)Punisher:
, (Note: is not throw punishable as she's not throwable from that state) () (+1)(-12)(-8)((-3)) (NT)(T)(T)Punisher:
, (-5) (NT)Punisher:
() (-8)(-8)((-3)) (NT)(T)Punisher:
, (-8)(-8)(-8) (NT)(T)(T)Punisher:
, (-13)(-5)(-8) (T)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
, (-13)(-5)(-22) (T)(NT)(T)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stun and full combo (-13)(-8) (T)(T)Punisher:
, (-12)(-7) (T)(T)Punisher:
, (-12)(-5)(-7)(-11) (T)(T)(T)(T)Punisher:
, , , (-12)(-5)(-7)(-20) (T)(T)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stun and full combo (-7)(-9) (T)(T)Punisher:
, , , (-7)(-7) (T)(NT)Punisher:
, (-9) (NT)Punisher:
, , , (-11 ~ -18) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , , , , (Note: not punishable by or )SS
(-9) (T)Punisher:
, , , Running
(-8) (T)Punisher:
, () (-9)(-5)(-5) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
(Note: from the second kick onwards, you can use to evade any of incoming follow-ups as they are linear air moves. () (-9)(-5)(+3) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher: No punishment on block, but SSing or using
, fast pokes or OHs would benefit you well and on SS, she is something like -27 to -40, depending on when you SS and those situations always guarantee low throws or into combos.() (-9)(-5)(-3)(-5) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
(Note: Same as above. Fast pokes or )() (-9)(-5)(-3)(+3) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher: Same as the
string.() (-9)(-5)(-3) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)Punisher: Same as above. She is at something like -50 if you duck her.
will circumvent all of this through its magic.() (-9)(-5)(-5) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher: Safe on block due to push-back, but if SSed, it'll grant you around -20 which mean pretty much any throw including dash TFBB can be used.
cannot evade this however. () (-9)(-8) ((-3)) (NT)(T)Punisher:
, (Note: I know that Lisa players know that her BT transition is safer, so you'll probably never see the punishable version of this unless you're in stun or something) (-9)(-10)(-28)(+9) (NT)(T)(NT)(NT)Punisher: The third kick is pretty much punishable by most strikes and
after the third kick would cause Bass to go behind her and hit her with a HC strike. This method also works against string, which is kinda silly considering she's supposed to track with her catch throw. (-9)(-10)(-13) (NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, , (, , , ) (-18) (NT)Punisher: Despite what the frames may say, this mix-ups is not punishable by either
or if she blocks after the first hit, despite being so disadvantaged. However, the thing is that if she decides to follow-up with anything, you have a very large window to throw out any strike and beat her on CH. If you condition the opponent to hold afterwards, you have enough time to do a running grab. (-11 (-8 on hit))(-13)(-5) (NT)(T)(NT)Punisher:
(Note: second hit is high and duckable) (-11 (-8 on hit))(-13)(-6 ~ -8) (NT)(T)(T)Punisher:
, (Note: it would be rare to not block the third kick on deep hit considering that it's part of a string, so you can rest assured that you can punish this string with ) () (-11 (-8 on hit))(-8)((-3)) (NT)(T)Punisher:
, (Note: Same as . Not throw punishable if she transitions into back-turned) (-10)(-28)(-5)(-8) (T)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
, (-13) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , SS
(-8) (T)Punish:
, Non-PB version (-10) (NT)Punish:
, , , (-8) (T)Punish:
, () (-26) (NT)Punish:
, ( buffer) (Note: This is just one of those moves that is hard to punish. You'd need to buffer in a dash for the punish and to do the late (this is very important). I'm having a hard time comboing that into since you'll end up too far away for to connect, but using air-grab is easier. Practice and see for yourself) (-11 ~ -12 shallow-hit) (+6 deep-hit) (NT)Punish:
, , Running
(-20) (NT)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stun and full comboBT
(-8) (T)Punish:
, BT
(-8) (T)Punish:
, BT
(-8) (NT)Punish:
, BT
(-9) (NT)Punish:
, , , BT
(-7) (NT)Punish:
, I did not enjoy a single minute of doing Lisa's list, so let's hope Christie would turn out to be easier.
As usual, let me know if I missed anything.
As usual, let me know if I missed anything.
One thing I've noticed after doing kasumi and lisa's list was that there are some moves which are very - on block, yet safe due to push-back. Emperor Cow last night suggested that I should include a seperate list for each character detailing disadvantegous moves which are safe due to push-back as some may not be aware of it and that it may benefit other characters.
Kind of like in Tekken where Heihachi's ff2 is only punishable by moves like Bryan's Mach Breaker or Nina's b1+3.
Kind of like in Tekken where Heihachi's ff2 is only punishable by moves like Bryan's Mach Breaker or Nina's b1+3.
I think I'll do the ones with shorter movelists after Christie.
This means that characters like Brad and Sarah will be done last.
edit: anyone willing to help with Christie?
This means that characters like Brad and Sarah will be done last.
edit: anyone willing to help with Christie?
The Fan-girlI think it was Mr. Wah who described Mila as a miniature version of Bass and I agree with him. She has a small moveset, very good throws(and catch throws) and ways to get above-average damage from different situations. The thing is, most of her good moves and combo-starters are fairly punishable and they're not hard to remember either thanks to her small moveset. Punishing her would probably force the Mila player to play risky and that's where you can exploit them.
(-5)(-7)(-11)(-9) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , (-5)(-7)(-11)(-11) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , (-5)(-7)(-11)(-5) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
(-5)(-7)(-7) (NT)(NT)(T)Punisher:
, ( ) (-5)(-7)(-6) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
(-5)(-7)(-9 (-6 on hit)) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , ( on normal hit) (-8)(-10)(-11) (NT)(T)(NT)Punisher:
, , , ( ) (-11) (T)Punisher:
, , , (Note: This is a pretty weird transition move and considering that most people cancel this into mount on block, you can still throw high and both characters will whiff their throws due to throws clashing and cancelling each other. Both throws will still recover from their throws rather than going straight to neutral). (-11)(-11) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , (-11)(-5) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
(-12)(-9) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , ( ) (-12)(-6) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
(-12)(-9 (-6 on hit)) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , ( on normal hit) (-9)(-13) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , , , (-12) (T)Punisher:
, , , (-15) (NT)Punisher:
, , , , , , , SS
(-8) (NT)Punisher:
, (-7)(-13) (T)(NT)Punisher:
, , , , , (-15) (NT)Punisher:
, , , , , , , (-5) (T)Punisher:
(no charge) (-7) (NT)Punisher:
, (-14(-13 on hit))(-8)(-11)(-11) (NT)(NT)(T)(NT)Punisher:
, , , SS
(-7) (T)Punisher:
, P: (-13) (NT)Punisher:
, , , , , (-6) (NT)Punisher:
non PB
(-10) (NT)Punisher:
, , , (-9) (NT)Punisher:
, , , (-13) (NT)Punisher:
, , , , , (-14) (T)Punisher:
, , (-8 (-5 on hit))(-8)(-10)(-11) (NT)(NT)(T)(NT)Punisher:
, , , This is taking waaaay too long. I'm almost dreading doing Christie's.
Let me know if I missed anything.
Let me know if I missed anything.
I'm gonna get back into this and create a separate section for stances or special moves. Also, the layout I've been using needs some clean-up and organization.