I forgot grapplers had 6 frame grabs. Not all characters can punish moves that leave u at -7 with 6t
DOA5 The Throw Punish Thread
- Thread starter UncleKitchener
- Start date
Hey hey hey, welcome to a grappler's thread. Small move list and fast throws, that's all we got.
Updated Op a bit. I'll make more when I got time.
Who should I move onto next? I was thinking Kasumi and Christie, two of those bad match ups.
Who should I move onto next? I was thinking Kasumi and Christie, two of those bad match ups.
dawnbringer
Active Member
Ayane's 
can be punished by using high hold on the last hit. Last hit is unholdable, so this puts her in -34 disadvantage and you end up close enough. Last hit cannot be ducked safely, although it's high.
is a vertical kick that may have different frame advantage depending on range. It varies from -10 to -12. So be aware that 11-frame throw punish is only guaranteed on deep hit. Same thing for , although it's more difficult to space.
Last hit of is not EX-high, instead it is very tight block string and there's not enough time to crouch normally under last hit (it catches during crouching animation startup). It is also stance dependent. It's probably possible to crouch dash under last hit or low hold under it (which is pointless).
can be punished by using high hold on the last hit. Last hit is unholdable, so this puts her in -34 disadvantage and you end up close enough. Last hit cannot be ducked safely, although it's high. is a vertical kick that may have different frame advantage depending on range. It varies from -10 to -12. So be aware that 11-frame throw punish is only guaranteed on deep hit. Same thing for , although it's more difficult to space.Last hit of
is not EX-high, instead it is very tight block string and there's not enough time to crouch normally under last hit (it catches during crouching animation startup). It is also stance dependent. It's probably possible to crouch dash under last hit or low hold under it (which is pointless).Keep 'em coming. I'll add the info to the OP tonight.
I personally haven't managed to actually duck the string, so I presumed there's too much block stun to actually initiate the duck (I can however crouch dash mid-string).
Also, I don't know if it's really worth having varying frame data on guard for all moves, unless it's a move with more than 4 or 5 active frames. It's something that I've been thinking about for a while, but I decided against it, since most people are aware of how active frames work on guard and most people would test out moves on close/deep hit when practising punishment.
I personally haven't managed to actually duck the
string, so I presumed there's too much block stun to actually initiate the duck (I can however crouch dash mid-string).Also, I don't know if it's really worth having varying frame data on guard for all moves, unless it's a move with more than 4 or 5 active frames. It's something that I've been thinking about for a while, but I decided against it, since most people are aware of how active frames work on guard and most people would test out moves on close/deep hit when practising punishment.
Okay, I think I'm done with Ayane. I'm gonna keep checking to see if I missed anything, but I think I'll be moving onto Kasumi soon or you guys could suggest who to do next (like someone really dangerous like Jann Lee).
Tools
- Ducking and Fuzzy Guarding
One of the most basic and important tools in your arsenal. High-mid mix-ups? Fuzzy it. High-Low Mix-up? Duck/Hold/Crush it. Keep in mind that unlike crushes like and fuzzy guarding, ducking actually has something like 2-4 frame start up or something. It may sound fast compared to something like VF or Tekken ducking speed, but in this game it's still slow against some strings like Ayane's which require fuzzy guarding to avoid getting caught up in the mix-ups and net yourself more frame advantage.
and fuzzy guarding, ducking actually has something like 2-4 frame start up or something. It may sound fast compared to something like VF or Tekken ducking speed, but in this game it's still slow against some strings like Ayane's which require fuzzy guarding to avoid getting caught up in the mix-ups and net yourself more frame advantage.
- Side Stepping
Another very important tool in your arsenal. In some cases where the opponent using a linear move/string such as Kasumi's :[K]:, you need to Side-step these things since +3 for you doesn't really mean shit in this game because of how fast she is and how slow you are. Some moves like unblockables must either be ducked or SSed.
:[K]:, you need to Side-step these things since +3 for you doesn't really mean shit in this game because of how fast she is and how slow you are. Some moves like unblockables must either be ducked or SSed.
- (4i)
A very standard tool for punishing anything -5 or higher in terms of disadvantage. Escapable.
- (6i)
A very good standard tool for punishing -7 and more. Keeps opponent standing and gives +10 frame advantage. Your go-to throw for shifting/keeping the momentum or if you don't want to deal with wake-up kicks.
- (8i)
Good punish with decent damage. Straight forward.
- (8i)
An underrated chain-throw. Great damage.
- (11i)
A very good chain-throw, which can lead to a lot of damage from both the or the extensions. The extension gives a guaranteed (and possible if opponent doesn't stagger escape) and back-turned pick-up/force-tech.
or the extensions. The extension gives a guaranteed (and possible if opponent doesn't stagger escape) and back-turned pick-up/force-tech.
- (11i)
An unbreakable chain-throw starter which can give a back-turned pick-up after the first extension (the Attitude Adjustment/F.U.). The second extension gives different oki setups.
- TFBB () (11i)
A very damaging throw. However, since it's not bufferable anymore (unlike its DOA2/3 counterpart), it would actually not serve as a very good punisher except for punishing strings that only end in either punishable highs or lows or very punishable moves (things that are -20 or more like Kasumi/Ayane's ).
).
- (4i)
Standard low punisher. Good damage and the positioning ain't too bad.
- (10i)
Low OH which doesn't grant much damage and changes position position. Can be used to interrupt low moves and strings.
- (5i)
Low throw punish. Difficult to use for throw punishment as it requires a crouch dash buffer but great for punishing low holds and moves which normally wouldn't be punishable by (like Kasumi's ), due to it's deceptively long range. My advice is to quickly crouch guard a move, go into neutral and buffer the crouch-dash so that you don't miss any inputs. Other ways of doing a crouch-dash from crouching state would be to do , which is a more advanced but slower way of buffering a CD, but that's just my opinion. You should use whatever methods that works for you.
(like Kasumi's ), due to it's deceptively long range. My advice is to quickly crouch guard a move, go into neutral and buffer the crouch-dash so that you don't miss any inputs. Other ways of doing a crouch-dash from crouching state would be to do , which is a more advanced but slower way of buffering a CD, but that's just my opinion. You should use whatever methods that works for you.
A weird tool used to SSing linears jumping moves. Not at all reliable, unless it's done against a jumping string with lots of recovery. It just looks cool and it's not really practical as a punisher.
Last edited:
The SmartassAyane is a pretty tricky character to get used to when fighting her. Good Ayane players always poke and zone, but when you're up close, the common theme with punishing her is to duck/crush as she has a lot of high/low mix-ups. She has some pretty decent safe moves, but there also some really obvious ones which people should punish, otherwise you're letting her get away with it and put yourself in more danger.
(-10 on block, -6 on hit) (NT)Punish:
on hit. , , , on block (Note: you must at the very least punish this move every time with a neutral throw. Don't let her get away with this) (-1)(-11)(-13) (NT)(T)(NT)Punish:
, , , , , (-1)(-6)(-7) (NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, (Note: hard to react to her stance change, but if you notice anything, just be safe and go for neutral throw. Can also be interrupted with a fast attack) (Note 2: People say this option isn't a viable option for Ayane players as it leaves you in a very dangerous position) (-1)(-6)(-9)(-30) (NT)(T)(T)(NTx2)Punish: Anything and I do mean anything.
(-1)(-6)(-10)(-12) (NT)(T)(NT)(T)Punish:
, , , , , (Note: not too hard to react to since this is one of 12-year strings). (-1)(-6)(-10)(-7) (NT)(T)(NT)(T)Punish:
, (-1)(-6)(-10)(-31) (NT)(T)(NT)Punish: BT
can catch anything from this position, if it's timed properly. You must be crazy to try it on Bass of all people. Apparently, it's "not viable", so you'll probably never see this in a real match. (-1)(-6)(-10)--(-8) (NT)(T)(NT)(NT)Punish:
, . (Note: If you are absolutely positively are positive they're going to throw out the version of , you can try and interrupt with ). (-1)(-6)(-10)--(-19)(-12)(-17) (NT)(T)(NT) (T)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , , , (Note: Can be interrupted with before kick string. I don't recommend it, but good to know if you're a gambler or good at reading): (same as BT ) (-15)(-14) (T)(T)Punish:
, , , , , (Note: You can also duck and TFBB this since the only follow-up to this is a low) (same as BT ) (-15)(-19) (T)(NT)Punish:
, , (Note: can be interrupted by ) (same as BT ) (-15)(-15) (T)(T)Punish:
, , , , , (Note: You can also duck and TFBB this since the only follow-up to this is a low and this is also a high like ) (same as BT ) (-15)(-17) (T)(NT)Punish:
, , (Note: can be interrupted by , similar to ) (-14)(-14) (NT)(T)Punish:
, , , , , , (-14)(-12) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , (difficult) (Note: can be interrupted by ) (-9)(-7) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, (Note: It's just better to duck this and TFBB, because I've rarely seen any Ayane player go the high mix-up) (-9)(-12) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , (difficult) (Note: Cannot be interrupted by OH) (-10)(-15) (T)(T)Punish:
, , , , , (Note: Can also be duck > TFBBd). (-10)(-13) (T)(T)Punish:
, , (difficult) (Note: Cannot be interrupted by OH) (-10)(-13)(-14) (T)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , , , (Note: Can also be duck > TFBBd). Can also be interrupted by a fast poke after the second hit. (-10)(-13)(+19) (T)(T)(T)Punish: On block you really have no punish, but it can be both
and it can be stopped with a quick poke or a low crush and she doesn't go into crouching state till the last few frames, so most high pokes will hit. (-12)(-18)(-17) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punish: I really can't think of a punish for this one as it pushes you too far back on open ground for a throw punish and you can't really punish it with a strike either. You either catch her in a corner (with you in a corner ofcourse) or duck the whole string and punish her with whatever (including the TFBB). She's susceptible to OH afterwards. The last hit of this of this string however is holdable and grants you a whooping +34, but the timing is weird
(-7) (NT)Punish:
, (-30) (NT)Punish: Anything. I would suggest
if you're on water. (-10 to -12) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , (Kind of hard to react to. If you want to punish this with slower throws, then you better be buffering your inputs early). (-9 to -12) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , , , , (very easy) (This is one of those moves which is punishable by pretty much everything on deep hit thanks to her being in squat state and you have enough time to buffer all your inputs) (-16)(-13)(-11) (NT)(T)(NT)Punish:
, , , (Note: is +1, by the way, however, the second kick can be ducked and even if she cancel into back-turned, she is at -27, which means that you can strike her with in the back and she won't be able to do anything and if she tries to finish the string, you can still poke her out of it. Another fun little thing you can do after the second hit to go around her) (-5)(-14)(-10) (T)(T)(T)Punish:
, , (Note: if you try to duck this string after the second hit you'll get hit by the third hit, despite it being a high, (-5)(-14)(-30) (T)(T)(NT)Punish: Pretty much anything.
(-9)(-15) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , , , (-9) (T)Punish:
, , , (-11) (NT)Punish:
, , , (-16)(-7 to -9) (T)(T)Punish:
, , , (Note: best results on close/deep hit). (-16)(-14) (T)(T)Punish:
, , (-17) (T)Punish:
, , , , , , , , (-12) (NT)Punish:
, , Side-step
(-9) (T)Punish:
, , , Side-step
(-12) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , BT
(-15) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , BT
(-8) (NT)Punish:
, (Note: Pretty much like )BT
(-10) (NT)Punish:
, , , , (Note: punishing this is rather awkward)BT
(-13) (T)Punish:
, , , , , BT
: (-15) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , BT
(-12) (T)Punish:
, , , (if you're a hero) (Note: Better to punish with low throw for more damage)BT
(-29) (NT)Punish: Anything.
launches pretty high on her back an gives you the same air-throw/ enders.BT
(-15) (T)Punish:
, , BT
(-7)(-8)(-15)(-14) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , , , BT
(-7)(-8)(-15)(-19) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , (Note: This is one of those cases where you can get a lot of damage from block punishing a move with a strike and it leads to a sit-down stun combo)BT
(-7)(-8)(-12)(-17) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , , , BT
(-7)(-8)(-12)(-15) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, , BT
(-7)(-8)(-5)(-14)(-10) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , BT
(-7)(-8)(-5)(-14)(-30) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)(NT)Punish: Anything.
BT
(a lot of recovery on whiff) (NT) (Throw)Punish: Duck and punish with anything except for low throws (she never goes into crouching state).
(-2 to -6) (T)Punish:
when it hits deep, otherwise, don't throw. The Ayane player has to be really lucky to not hit this one deep.dawnbringer
Active Member
Another little bit of information about Ayane. You can duck second hit of if first hit is blocked. I'm not sure if Bass can punish her from there, but it may be useful nevertheless to escape pressure. Although BT looks very similar, it has different frame data, and you cannot duck second .
if first hit is blocked. I'm not sure if Bass can punish her from there, but it may be useful nevertheless to escape pressure. Although BT looks very similar, it has different frame data, and you cannot duck second .Keep em coming. I'll add it once I'm back home.
I'll update Kasumi a bit more tonight. After that I'll do Bass since that would be quick.
I think I've found a new use for last night against certain strings. I'll talk more about it later.
Hmmmm, no Kasumi players in sight and her wiki page is surprisingly devoid of any frame data. HMMMMMMM, I WONDER WHY.
You'll get what you deserve, you Mai-rip-off worshippers. Soon.
I think I've found a new use for
last night against certain strings. I'll talk more about it later.Hmmmm, no Kasumi players in sight and her wiki page is surprisingly devoid of any frame data. HMMMMMMM, I WONDER WHY.
You'll get what you deserve, you Mai-rip-off worshippers. Soon.
Okay, I think I'm done with Kasumi, but having spent days just going through everything over and over, I can't think of anything else for now.
Be sure to let me know if I missed something or made a mistake.
Be sure to let me know if I missed something or made a mistake.
The little-shit Mary-sueKasumi is a character that must be punished no matter what as she's such a danger to Bass. She is a grade-A cunt when up-close with lots of mid-low mix-ups and fast moves, but at long distances she has trouble getting in because anything which closes space for her is risky. Kasumi players are major risk takers because most people don't know how to punish her and they get away with throwing out unsafe pokes and strings. I enjoy seeing Kasumi players unhappy and you should do the same and punish her unsafe moves.
(-3)(-5)(-9)(-10)(-7) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punish:
, (Note: I would suggest fuzzy guarding the elbow for more advantage) (-3)(-5)(-9)(-11)(-12) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , , , , Duck/Crouch Dash > TFBB (-3)(-5)(-9)(-11)(-11) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, , (difficult to buffer) (-3)(-5)(-9)(-7) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punish:
, (-3)(-5)(-9)(-12)(-15) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , , , (Note: isn't punishable due to push-back on open-ground). (-3)(-5)(-9)(-12)(-18) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stun and full combo (-3)(-5)(-9)(-12) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)Punish:
, (difficult to buffer) (Note: will whiff due to push-back) (-3)(-5)(-9)(-12)(-7) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punish:
, (Note: Fuzzy for more advantage) (-3)(-5)(-9)(-12)(-15) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , , , (-3)(-5)(-13)(-10) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punish:
, , , (-3)(-5)(-30) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punish: Anything standing.
(-3)(-5)(-16) (NT)(NT)(T)Punish:
, , , , , , Duck/Crouch Dash > TFBB (-3)(-9)(-15)(-12) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)Punish:
, , , , , (-3)(-9)(-15)(-13) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)Punish:
, , , , , (-3)(-9)(-15)(-30) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punish: Anything standing.
(-3)(-9)(-15)(-11) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , (-3)(-9)(-16) (NT)(NT)(T)Punish:
, , , , , (-3)(-9)(-16) (NT)(NT)(T)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stun and full combo (needs proper timing. Has a good chance of hitting her even if she buffers anything since she's still recovering from crouching. (-9)(-10) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , (Note: Can also be ducked for a more damaging punish). (-9)(-11)(-11) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , (-9)(-12) (NT)(T)Punish:
, (-10)(-10) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , (Note: ducking the second hit will allow for more damaging punishers). (-12)(-7) (NT)(T)Punish: Not punishable on block, but it's only a Mid > High string, so you can fuzzy guard the second hit and you end up with a stupid amount of frame advantage for do whatever standing throw you want.
(-9) (T)Punish:
, , , (-12) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , Punish: I've spent a while seeing what works and what doesn't when she jumps over you with this and apparently, if your timing is right, you can get a High-Counter BT
, otherwise she'll be able to immediately transition into crouching state. My guess is that she is still considered to be in the air state while landing, so that counts as a High-Counter Offensive Hold, I guess. (-13 on block or hold(
)) (NT)Punish: duck and throw (any throw will do) or
into combos. (-5) (NT)Punish:
SS
(-9) (T)Punish:
, , , (-13) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , (-13)(-17) (NT)(T)Punish:
, , , , , , TFBB (-13)(-5) (NT)(NT)Punish:
(-3)(-8) (NT)(T)Punish:
, (-9, -8 on hit)(-10) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , :[K]: (-10)(-3) (NT)(NT)Punish: There's really no way of punishing this on block, so you'd have to hold this if you see the second hit coming. SSing this would only give you something like +4 to you, which is still not much at all.
(-11 on block) (NT)Punish: Another one of those moves that is not punishable on block and it's not duckable either since it's a mid-kick. However, SSing it gives you between +8 to +16, which is pretty much all you can work with. I would suggest SSing it (yeah, easier said than done) and throw punishing it with something fast like
or just to be on the safe side.SS
/ (-9) (NT)Punish:
, , , (-14)(-8) (T)(T)Punish:
, (-14)(-16) (T)(T)Punish:
, , (easy) (?)Punish: She is way more susceptible to Bass' back-turned
and unlike her , this one leads to a full combo as it catches her facing forward, rather than facing back. (-8) (NT)Punish:
, (Power-blow not active) (-10 to -11) (NT)Punish:
, , , (-7) (NT)Punish:
, (-19)(-11)Punish:
, , , (-16) (T)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stun and full combo (needs proper timing. Has a good chance of hitting her even if she buffers anything since she's still recovering from crouching)
Figure 1. Kasumi, after performing a
The AssholeWhen you start skimming through this list, you'd probably notice why Bass has so little in terms of punishable moves. There are a few reasons for that; he has one of the shortest movelists in the game, most of which consists of throws or catch/OHs. Another one is that he has a lot of Guard Break moves, most of which are plus on block, but slow. He also has a lot of very safe pokes, which sort of goes against what DOA stands for; fast unsafe pokes and mix-ups. Bass neither has a decent mix-up, nor has he got any moves that could be considered fast, which makes punishing him hard due to his extra safety. However, there are some moves which stick out like a sore thumb and you must punish as letting him get away with it could mean death in most cases.
(-7) (NT)Punish:
, (-2)(-4)(-16) (NT)(NT)(T)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stun (-4)(-17) (T)(NT)Punish:
, , , , , and most strikes faster than 15-16 frames. (-9)(-14) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , , , (-9)(-10)(-16) (NT)(NT)(T)Punish:
, , (-2)(-6)(-2) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punish: Not punishable by Bass, but characters with fast jabs can interrupt him in-between the
. Keep in mind that this is actually very risky as is not interruptible and you will pay if you guess wrong. Also, this string has fantastic recovery, even after SS. (-16)(-8) (T)(T)Punish:
, (Note: rarely used by Bass players) (-7)(-8) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, (-4)(-10)(-8) (T)(T)(NT)Punish:
, (-2)(-5) (NT)(NT)Punish:
SS
(-8) (NT)Punish:
, Running
(-4 to -16) (NT)Punish:
, , (Note: This is a very unpredictable move, which can be hard to punish if it's guarded on the last hit frame. The fact that it can be made safe (it's very hard to do so), means that in some cases, slower low throws/OHs, like Kasumi or Lisa's launching throws many not connect) () (-6) (NT)Punish:
(Note: I never ever see this move punished by a throw since the follow-up throw actually makes this totally safe against throw-punish and beat any incoming throw, no matter how fast it is) (no Power Blow) (-10) (NT)Punish:
, , , (-14) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , (-17 (actually -9)) (NT)Punish:
, , , (Note: The tool-tip is a big fat liar) (-10)(-10) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , (-10)(-12) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , , , , TFBB (Note: Can be interrupted by a fast poke) (-6 on hit, -12 on block)(-9) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , on far-hit (-31) (NT)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stun (Note: on close-hit, this move is actually +1 on guard)Wake-up
(-26) (NT)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stunSS
(-10)Punish:
, , , (-28)(-12) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, , , , , (-7 on hit, -10 on block) (NT)(NT)Punish:
, (on hit), , (on block)BT
(-7) (T)Punish:
, BT
(-5) (NT)Punish:
BT
(-10) (NT)Punish:
, , , BT
(-15) (NT)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stun if they don't buffer anything.BT
(-12) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , BT
(-14) (NT)Punish:
, , , , , , Duck > TFBB (-67) (NT)Punish: Do I even need to say anything?
Last edited:
I actually have a completely different experience with 6pk. The -17 on this kick may in fact be true as he's punishable by both strikes and slow throws, yet 8k is actually -9 and I got no idea why the tool-tip thinks it's -17. It may actually be a bug from back when they increased the recovery on 6pk before the official release to prevent any Summer Jam combos being developed.
Edit: added Running P to the list.
Edit: added Running P to the list.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
So I got some Tina stuff would contribute more but its a pain in the ass to post things with my phone
6H+K -4/ 0
Thought I would do moves that are a pain to test. The way it usually goes with frame data. The further it is the safer it is. That being said this at max distance puts you at 0 pretty spiffy I'd say. Close as possible -4 here's a fun fact. By the 4th frame Tina is already standing. So alpha and her i3 low grab can't punish.
2H+K +1 or -19
One of the few moves in this game that can be really awesome or really shitty. Morale of the story no Tina should use this at distance. Otherwise its no guard break and the opponent gets to munch on that recovery. The only saving grace is a i18 and slower she will block and when launchers hit a crouching opponent they don't launch as high. Do this to Hayate, Alpha, or Kasumi your getting a 7K to the face.
BT P+K +2/ +6
Not much to say other than what a great move. Up close +2 every time and max distance +6.
Finally:
4P+K(Moonsault Press) -1/ +6
What a pain frame wise this move can be really inconsistent. I tested this on 3 characters nothing extensive but I at least tested it in a specific manner too. So 4P+K would be blocked same spot every time. This will most commonly be -1/ 0 from what I can tell. Here's how I tested this first action guard all, 2nd nothing, and recovery off so opponent would get up in place every time same spot.
I got up close did 9K, 9K chose that move cause it doesn't change stance and it launches so I get some distance from opponent. On Eliot he stands still and I got +1 mostly and 0. On Akira that big fucker I would get -1 mostly very little 0. So on him I decided to do 9Kx3 maybe that will make a difference results did not vary.
Now Lei Fang this is where it gets fucked up. 9K 9K I get random 0, +1, -1 then I do 9Kx3 I'm getting +2, 0, +1 I even managed to get a -1. My guess is since that bitch can't keep still it threw the frames all off when she blocked 4P+K. If this is done at a good distance then you will get a nice +4/+6 and tip range is of course +6 every time.
6H+K -4/ 0
Thought I would do moves that are a pain to test. The way it usually goes with frame data. The further it is the safer it is. That being said this at max distance puts you at 0 pretty spiffy I'd say. Close as possible -4 here's a fun fact. By the 4th frame Tina is already standing. So alpha and her i3 low grab can't punish.
2H+K +1 or -19
One of the few moves in this game that can be really awesome or really shitty. Morale of the story no Tina should use this at distance. Otherwise its no guard break and the opponent gets to munch on that recovery. The only saving grace is a i18 and slower she will block and when launchers hit a crouching opponent they don't launch as high. Do this to Hayate, Alpha, or Kasumi your getting a 7K to the face.
BT P+K +2/ +6
Not much to say other than what a great move. Up close +2 every time and max distance +6.
Finally:
4P+K(Moonsault Press) -1/ +6
What a pain frame wise this move can be really inconsistent. I tested this on 3 characters nothing extensive but I at least tested it in a specific manner too. So 4P+K would be blocked same spot every time. This will most commonly be -1/ 0 from what I can tell. Here's how I tested this first action guard all, 2nd nothing, and recovery off so opponent would get up in place every time same spot.
I got up close did 9K, 9K chose that move cause it doesn't change stance and it launches so I get some distance from opponent. On Eliot he stands still and I got +1 mostly and 0. On Akira that big fucker I would get -1 mostly very little 0. So on him I decided to do 9Kx3 maybe that will make a difference results did not vary.
Now Lei Fang this is where it gets fucked up. 9K 9K I get random 0, +1, -1 then I do 9Kx3 I'm getting +2, 0, +1 I even managed to get a -1. My guess is since that bitch can't keep still it threw the frames all off when she blocked 4P+K. If this is done at a good distance then you will get a nice +4/+6 and tip range is of course +6 every time.
I'll get to Tina and Lei Fang eventually. They have a special place in my heart; a special place where there's fire and anguish and pain. Then again, every character is in that category.
The Douchebag (wearing a "Cunt Destroyer" T-shirt)This guy is pretty much a marked man in the game, along with a few other skanky characters. If you let this guy get away with it, you are simply putting yourself in a world of hurt. This character is spastic as fuck and has some really good safe moves, but he also has a lot of unsafe ones too. Jann Lee falls into that special category of characters where some moves can only be punished Tekken-style and that means using strikes. In short, Fuck This Guy. Fuck him hard with your size 12 boots.
(-1)(-4)(-16) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , , , , duck > TFBB, , (-1)(-4)(-10)(-12) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punisher:
, , , , , , duck > TFBB (-1)(-4)(-10)(-18) / :[P]: (-1)(-4)(-10)(-12(not punishable)) (NT)(NT)(T)(NT)Punisher:
, , , , , , duck > TFBB (Note: Charged version is not punishable due to push-back, though the opponent is still at a significant frame disadvantage) (-1)(-4)(-5)(-13) (NT)(NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , , , into either or high air-throw, into hard knock-down (Note: I'm having trouble punishing this with on open-ground, even though I have no trouble using as an alternate 11i throw. It may be a hit-box issue) (-1)(-4)(-10)(-14) (NT)(NT)(T)(T)Punisher:
, , , , , , duck > TFBB (-1)(-4)(-11 (-8 on hit))(-12) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)Punisher:
, , , , , (-1)(-4)(-11 (-8 on hit))(-22) (NT)(NT)(NT)(T)Punish:
, , , into sit-down stun and full combo (-1)(-11)(-18) (NT)(T)(T)Punisher:
, , , , (Note, the last kick is not punishable by throws on open ground due to push-back, but it's punishable by strikes. Opponent is susceptible to slower OHs if they don't immediately fuzzy guard) (-1)(-11)(-20) (NT)(T)(T)Punish:
(on deep hit), , , into sit-down stun and full combo (-1)(-12)(-8) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
, (Note: if you guess that he's going to go into , a quick throw and punish him during recovery and Dragon Stance start up) (-1)(-12)(-15) (NT)(NT)(T)Punish:
(on deep hit), , (-1)(-11) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , (-6)(-13)(-8) (T)(T)(T)Punisher:
, (-6)(-13)(-10) (T)(T)(T)Punisher:
, , , (-20)(-7)(-18) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , , , (-19) (NT)Punisher:
, , , , , (-13) (NT)Punisher:
, , , , , , , (-12 (-9 on hit))(-19) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , , , , , TFBB (-12 (-9 on hit))(-11) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , (same as ) (-8)(-18) (T)(T)Punisher:
, , , , (Note: the last kick is not punishable by throws on open ground due to push-back, but it's punishable by strikes. Opponent is susceptible to slower OHs if they don't immediately fuzzy guard) (-8)(-20) (T)(T)Punish:
(on deep hit), , , into sit-down stun and full combo (-5)(-13 (-17 when chraged)) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
, (Note: not punishable by throws on open ground due to push-back, but it's punishable by strikes) (-15) (T)Punisher:
, , , , , BT
(-12 to -13) (T)Punisher:
, , , , , , , (-10)(-16)(-9) (NT)(T)(NT)Punisher:
, , , (similar to ) (-10)(-16)(-23) (NT)(T)(NT)Punisher: Anything, pretty much.
(-13)(-13) (NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , , , (-10) (T)Punisher:
, , , (-15) (T)Punisher:
, , , , , (-9)(-15) (NT)(T)Punisher:
, (Note: These two are only possible on deep hit. I don't know why only these two particular throws work, but only these two do. You can't this either) (-9)(-12) (NT)(T)Punisher: Same as above, except that
also works too. (-11)(-13)(-12) (NT)(NT)(NT)Punisher:
, , , , , (-9)(-11) (NT)(T)Punisher:
, , , (-9)(-18) (NT)(T)Punisher:
, , , , , , , TFBB (-11 (-8 on hit))(-12) (NT)(T)Punisher:
, , , , , (-11 (-8 on hit))(-22) (NT)(T)Punish:
(on deep hit), , , into sit-down stun and full comboSS
(-18) (T)Punisher:
, , , , (Note: the last kick is not punishable by throws on open ground due to push-back, but it's punishable by strikes. Opponent is susceptible to slower OHs if they don't immediately fuzzy guard) (-13) (NT)Punisher:
, , , , , , , (-8)(+2) (NT)(NT)Punisher: Now, this isn't punishable, but since
is itself a very common move used for CB and some players never used to follow-up, it's good to keep in mind that you can punish the first part alone with and . Then again, some people may catch on to that quick and punish you. This can also be punished by after as it will evade the follow-up due to it being a jumping attack. (-9) (NT)Punisher:
, , , (-11) (NT)Punisher:
, , , (-11) (NT)Punisher:
, (Note: He can still be punished with these two even if he transitions into Dragon Stance, but you must react quickly) (-18)(-11) (T)(T)Punisher: This string is really weird. The only thing I've managed to punish this with was
and that didn't even punish half the time and it's very inconsistent. My advice: Don't throw punish this unless your back is to a wall so that some of the push-back is nullified. (-18) (T)Punish:
(on deep hit), , , into sit-down stun and full comboDragon Stance
(-8) (NT)Punisher:
, I think that is pretty much all I could milk out of Jann Lee. Let me know if I missed anything or miscalculated something.
I'm gonna search my heart and soul and see which characters I hate the most. Oh wait, I hate every one of them equally. That means every one will get the same treatment C:
I'm gonna search my heart and soul and see which characters I hate the most. Oh wait, I hate every one of them equally. That means every one will get the same treatment C: