DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread

[iHajinShinobi]

Yeah, I'm out of this discussion too. Time for me to go back to doing something worthwhile.

Same here, although I do appreciate the input on the Bass vs Christie MU.

@EMPEROR_COW your input is also appreciated, and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one here realizing there is a larger scope to playing this game (it's fine, some don't agree with me anyway, but that's only because other players still don't understand Ayane's ability in this game).

I think its best if players with the most play experience and more accurate knowledge should discuss our tier list later down the line. Letting things proceed as they have in Vanilla and 5U will just get messy, again.

 

[Madian]

Seems we have a lot more sane posts in this thread now.

My own two cents...

The tier list is nowhere near completion. As a Hayate main, I feel I have a strong grasp of only a fraction of his match ups and that's going to stay that way until I have played over 100 games with people who are around equal skill level to myself against their own characters. And even then all it takes is one little discovery and the match up can totally change overnight. Characters that use to give me trouble are now some of my favorites to throw down against because of character specific set ups I can put them in.

To make a true tier list you need experience not theory. And the only way to get that is that people keep playing their mains and grind out real offline matches. That's how real tier lists get formulated.

A few years back, a friend and myself played our mains in super turbo in long sets every day. He played Chun Li and I played Vega. Back then the match up was not 100% known and we assumed that it was a 5-5 like others had concluded. In the end we discovered that it was in fact a 6-4. We discovered this by the fact that I was winning 60% more often than I usually would against him. I could go in length as to how move A beat move B but in the end it was the experience that resulted in this conclusion.

Super Turbo is a great example too because even after the game had been out for 10 years the match up list was STILL changing.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Can someone post links to the media library for the specific Akira players in Japan with playstyle and tech? Because after watching countless streams, Nico videos & youtube.... I only caught two which is Tuuo and Java Akira in tournaments and they do the same exact thing as with the very few Akira players over here. The approach is different and using 246P for whiff punishment, everything else involving tech is almost the same.

Honestly speaking when it comes to Akira, there's just more of them over there than here. Besides that, Emperor cow made it seem there were more than 1 in the US for tournaments and I only seen Sly Bass. Being serious here, I am curious on the players in Japan that are ahead. For character usage and amount of players? I can believe that.

 

[Koompbala]

Alpha beats Helena I don't even use Alpha and I know this. The chart shows 5-5 its 6-4 Alpha. Helena has a lot of string mixup and can go into BKO from certain strings. Well her only safe transitions into BKO is 236P+K which is raw slaps into BKO for +1 or just a raw 2P+K. Every other and I mean every other BKO transition is punished by alphas 3i 2T. Most of her transitions are -4 do the math. That alone shuts down Helena. Pretty much everyone knows what Alpha is capable of.

Also Tina vs.

Alpha 6-4
Ayane 5-5
Christie 5-5
Helena 5-5
J. Lee 5-5
Leon 5-5
Ryu 6-4
Zack 5-5

First number being Tina I don't know Jacky all that well, so I cant say anything about that matchup. I also know nothing about Rig, so that too I cant debate. The others I'm willing to explain but I'm tired I stayed up.

 

[Pictured Mind]

Every other and I mean every other BKO transition is punished by alphas 3i 2T. Most of her transitions are -4 do the math. That alone shuts down Helena.

Just because Alpha can throw punish most of Helena's moves that go into BKO doesn't mean Helena gets shut down. This just seems like a very weird assumption to me.

 

[Koompbala]

Just because Alpha can throw punish most of Helena's moves that go into BKO doesn't mean Helena gets shut down. This just seems like a very weird assumption to me.

Considering Alpha alone can do this and no one else in the cast can. That alone gives Alpha a nice edge. It forces Helena to fight like every other character. From there character to character I would give the match to Alpha. I don't really care though I only got one main meh.

 

[Darth Lotonic X]

Considering Alpha alone can do this and no one else in the cast can. That alone gives Alpha a nice edge. It forces Helena to fight like every other character. From there character to character I would give the match to Alpha. I don't really care though I only got one main meh.

A lot of characters have answers to the -4 BKO transitions. It takes her 15 (I think) frames to stand back up into a block, so you can punish it in a few different ways:

• Most characters can punish with a low jab with varying degrees of usefulness.
• Characters with low OH's can force a 50/50.
• Alpha can simply low grab her.
• Alpha's 7K, Busa's 7K, and Lisa's 4H+K hit her out of BKO duck.

 

[Koompbala]

Indeed it's not 50/50 with Alpha though that's all I'm saying. Others they can do something to induce a guessing game. With Alpha it's a matter of okay. I get this every time if you do that every time. Rather than well if I do this. I may get this or that. If I thought it was necessary for BKO to be used constantly. I would be like oh this is a 7-3 right away. I know helena can still fight without it. I thought taking away the guesses was a good thing I suppose not.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Alpha beats Helena I don't even use Alpha and I know this. The chart shows 5-5 its 6-4 Alpha. Helena has a lot of string mixup and can go into BKO from certain strings. Well her only safe transitions into BKO is 236P+K which is raw slaps into BKO for +1 or just a raw 2P+K. Every other and I mean every other BKO transition is punished by alphas 3i 2T. Most of her transitions are -4 do the math. That alone shuts down Helena. Pretty much everyone knows what Alpha is capable of.

Also Tina vs.

Alpha 6-4
Ayane 5-5
Christie 5-5
Helena 5-5
J. Lee 5-5
Leon 5-5
Ryu 6-4
Zack 5-5

First number being Tina I don't know Jacky all that well, so I cant say anything about that matchup. I also know nothing about Rig, so that too I cant debate. The others I'm willing to explain but I'm tired I stayed up.

Mind elaborating on how Ayane vs Tina is a 5-5?

 

[ailingeternity]

Shit! Lisa in top 10!? Now there's a surprise. Not that I'm complaining or anything. Some of her match-ups are definitely questionable in regards to this list imo but my knowledge of other characters is on a basic level. I'm happy

 

[Brute]

Shit! Lisa in top 10!? Now there's a surprise. Not that I'm complaining or anything. Some of her match-ups are definitely questionable in regards to this list imo but my knowledge of other characters is on a basic level. I'm happy

Don't get too excited. The tier list in the first post is still in "hilarious" category.

 

[ailingeternity]

Don't get too excited. The tier list in the first post is still in "hilarious" category.

I agree, discussion of tiers is a little unnecessary with LR around the corner anyway. I'd rather keep opinions on hold till then.

 

[tokiopewpew]

I agree, discussion of tiers is a little unnecessary with LR around the corner anyway. I'd rather keep opinions on hold till then.

I don't think they are unnecessary, because I don't believe that the changes made in LR will mess up the whole tier list standings. Sure, some additions or adjustments will be necessary.

Anyway, just wanted to say that any kind of feedback/input here is always appreciated.

 

[synce]

I'm not expecting any big shakeups in LR. TN seems to have an idea of who they want to be strong and who they don't. They really like Ayane, Helena, and Christie for example, and I don't see Marie getting nerfed either.

BTW I agree with Alpha-Helena being 6-4. This MU has always been bad for Helena. If you can avoid getting cornered as Alpha it's an easy win since Helena can't even get in

 

[crapoZK]

I'm not expecting any big shakeups in LR. TN seems to have an idea of who they want to be strong and who they don't. They really like Ayane, Helena, and Christie for example, and I don't see Marie getting nerfed either.

TN doesn't really nerf shit like how other companies do though, (Like what Capcom did to Deejay always lmao) they seem to nitpick bugs, and fix them, at probably make a move more punishable. Maybe they will make an attack do more/less damage by like 10pts.

No character needs a nerf or buff at this point (Apart from Eliot. He needs some tweaks) but Marie's Command SS needs to be fixed, because that is a HUGE bug, and breaks the DOA (More like all 3D fighting games)'s logic in itself.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Still say people not used to Marie's Free Stepping jump need to play DOA3.1 and see how crazy that Free Step Dodge was. You just had to respect that option on those opponents who had them.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

the difference is Maries crushes lows, avoids throws/OHs, avoids auto tracking strings, AND many actual mid/high tracking moves. shit is a joke and needs a nerf

 

[Matt Ponton]

the difference is Maries crushes lows, avoids throws/OHs, avoids auto tracking strings, AND many actual mid/high tracking moves. shit is a joke and needs a nerf

Again, has been a property of FSD attacks/evades since DOA3.1.

 

[UncleBiscuits79]

TN doesn't really nerf shit like how other companies do though, (Like what Capcom did to Deejay always lmao) they seem to nitpick bugs, and fix them, at probably make a move more punishable. Maybe they will make an attack do more/less damage by like 10pts.

No character needs a nerf or buff at this point (Apart from Eliot. He needs some tweaks) but Marie's Command SS needs to be fixed, because that is a HUGE bug, and breaks the DOA (More like all 3D fighting games)'s logic in itself.

I agree that MR's sidestep is very powerful, but I think every character has at least one move that can break it, and even still I think that move is unsafe, even though it appears to be safe (because of guard break). I don't agree that it's a bug.

On the other hand though, I have seen that move actually break tracking moves. For example, Hitomi has a bunch of tracking moves, but some don't seem to work on that side step (4P and variants, 1P gets crushed because it's too low for example). I just had a guy just now that I was fighting that was totally spamming that sidestep -> buttslam and the only thing that worked was 6H+K or 2P+K and I defeated her.

I could see how that sidestep move could totally destroy other characters though. I play Kokoro too, and I get totally destroyed because she has such lousy tracking.

 

[Brute]

Again, has been a property of FSD attacks/evades since DOA3.1.

If freestepping really dodged all lows in addition to everything else Fork mentioned, than it was indeed equally as dumb as the Minuet.

And no, that doesn't justify the Minuet even slightly.