Argentus
Well-Known Member
To be fair, nobody uses Zack. So i dont have much experience against him. But im speaking generally.
Shit We Lost
- Thread starter grap3fruitman
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To be fair, nobody uses Zack. So i dont have much experience against him. But im speaking generally.
David Gregg
Well-Known Member
I'm not following your reasoning. If both players know that the other one could perform a CB in 2 moves they wouldn't blindly go at each other. And if they spam the same moves, just like the way it worked before, that's where holds come in (only this time they would be utilized the way they should be: you actually reading your opponent). Add in a smaller life bar and it would definitely make the game more defensive as you get punished easier for your mistakes.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry that you don't know how to play? Spamming would get you no where. For one the hold is still there in neutral. Secondly, the majority of attacks are negative on block. Then there is the spacing game, fuzzy guarding, counter hits, the list goes on. It wouldn't reverse anything. It would make people play more cautiously. For the most part the majority of people in this game don't really focus much on defense because they simply don't have to. This game is too forgiving when it comes to the neutral game and punishing a weak defense.
Edit:
This looks all too familiar btw...Why do I get the feeling this guy is degalon with a new user name?
DR2K
Well-Known Member
To better reward the attacker for guessing right.
Adamleelight
Well-Known Member
Why not just make everyone happy. Bring back the guaranteed damage off the sitdown stun in 1v1. then all of you can get the CB you want and also launch them if CB isn't up. Still works either way with the sitdown stun. CB or not your gonna get damage lol.
So yeah bring back the glitch and make it official.
So yeah bring back the glitch and make it official.
MajesticBlue
Active Member
While I think the CB! threshold should be determined by a number of variables, I really see where your coming from. I would like to see the DoaD stun system or an improved version of it and then keep CB in the 3-4 hits range for those who want to take the risk. Stun launch should be a bit more scary then it is. Then again that also depends on the life setting as well. With the higher life coming into the picture lowering the number of hits for CB! might make a little sense. That 30 points makes a huge difference.
Honestly, I am just glad you brought this up. Plus any time anybody admits liking elements of Doa4 or DoaD things like this get labeled. I can fully understand those games and still appreciate them for what they are.
Also TRI Mike, Ryu's frame traps were not all that great in the first place really. I just hope he makes more sense as a character this time around. He doesn't need much tweaking to be good even with the removal of frame traps. The New 4P2P if it is good should be a nice change since he would have a low again.
Christie can CB! on the third hit. Off a hit confirm mid no less. Chances are that is gone though. The only reason i bring it up is there are still some good tools in Doa 5. Even if there are not as many as people would like.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Honestly I believe the addition of the critical burst was the reason why sit down mechanics were drastically changed from E3 to launch. It seemed like shimbori wanted a universal mechanic for guaranteed PB's thus CB's were made and balancing just went haywire from there. They wanted a "wow factor" mechanic, thus the PB's which lead to other things. Of course I'm just assuming, but that seems to be what happened.
Overall I felt a mixture of BT setups, staggers, crumples and sit down stuns would of been better for the game than adding a universal unholdable stun...
synce
Well-Known Member
Just try to pick up VF5FS or TR and see how quickly you get bodied by veterans. And when you lose it's always because you got outplayed with proper spacing, blocking, poking, and punishing, NOT because the opponent got lucky with a counter. The only exception is in TR when opponent has much higher ATK stat, but I hear that was fixed in latest patch. Anyway the less chances you have to 'get out of jail free' with that counter, the smarter you will play, and the more exciting the game will become.
Number 13
Well-Known Member
So what should we do? Set up a petition? Rarely ever works in general and even less likely so in this specific situation. Demanding via twitter/facebook won't work when easily the message majority is about new costumes, stages, panties, etc. Not to mention the Japan crowd have the advantage of being heard louder of what their needs are.
Unless there are a few influential people telling TN what's what and they agree, don't hold your breathe.
Unless there are a few influential people telling TN what's what and they agree, don't hold your breathe.
Argentus
Well-Known Member
I'm just pointing out that the more advantageous something is, the more people gravitate towards it. I already read opponents for holds instead of just mashing or guessing, so the tendency to gravitate towards certain tactics makes things even easier on me, and others who already use counters correctly.
That and that I still see a lot of people just mashing attacks trying to get their strings amd combos to go off rather than thinking it through. I can't see this doing anything but reinforcing that habit.
It's not a matter of whether its smart or it actually working...people do it anyway. Someone said before that a big part of the problem is that a lot of the players want it to be a science instead of an art, and I think thats all that boils down to.
But I was meaning to just make a comment on player habits, not derail the thread or anything, apologies. My point was just that it wpuldnt get rid of guessing or spamming or mashing, just move them around.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
What veteran players are losing to lucky holds in DOA5? And how would proper spacing, blocking, poking, etc. . . not be as applicable in DOA5?
SilverForte
Well-Known Member
No one is saying those things aren't important in doa. It's just that the chances of an experienced player in TTT2 or VF5FS losing to a newbie are extremely low. In doa I've lost to noobs sometimes simply because they played completely random with their holds and that just works sometimes.
I wanted to throw a Ferris Bueller reference in there.
"Bayman's
gave him nine times the advantage it does now. Nine times? Nine times."
I got lazy while editing though. It's a miracle I finished editing this at all.
"Bayman's
gave him nine times the advantage it does now. Nine times? Nine times."I got lazy while editing though. It's a miracle I finished editing this at all.
I believe this built was 0.50. This build was at E3. When DOA5U was announced, I did say I wanted it to go back to it's E3 build. Nobody wanted to listen to me. Oh well, at least the opinions on guaranteed damage is on my house this time.
All TN has to do after that is reduce the amount of attacks that put you in stun.
No. We played v1.02. Version 1.02 was the October 2012 patch. The footage in grap3's video is from pre-launch gameplay. I believe it was v0.50; the E3 build, like Cr!msonWarrior said.
I would very much like to have that back.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
I agree with Raansu and grap3 almost all the time. I also want the threshold to be shortened, more positive and safe moves and unholdable stuns but I don't think we're getting them for Ultimate. The game is most likely finished by now and if anything we're gonna get a patch or two to change frame data but not the system itself.
A while ago I had to completely stop playing because I didn't have a good internet connection or people to play with locally but now I fortunately have a group and some of us actually care about the game. We have our differences in opinions like we should but we care about the system and improving our gameplay. In the last three months we've become MUCH better than we were. I think my Tina, Helena and Ryu are now pretty good but sometimes I can't help but lose a fight against someone who guessed right in a hold or put me in a stun with a single strike. The stun system takes most skill away and forces players to guess.
In my case, I already memorized my safe moves, frame advantage, best throws, pokes, unholdables, how to use floors, walls, ceilings, what are my best launchers, juggles, I'm constantly using PB and many other things while my friend is just mashing a few moves to put me in stun and guess right afterwards. It's frustrating because when I played VF5 I never lost against someone who played worse or a less-skilled player but in DOA5, though I actually like the game a lot, I lose too many matches against players who definitely don't have my same skill.
It's not that "I'm mad" or I'm "looking for excuses". It's just the plain truth.
A while ago I had to completely stop playing because I didn't have a good internet connection or people to play with locally but now I fortunately have a group and some of us actually care about the game. We have our differences in opinions like we should but we care about the system and improving our gameplay. In the last three months we've become MUCH better than we were. I think my Tina, Helena and Ryu are now pretty good but sometimes I can't help but lose a fight against someone who guessed right in a hold or put me in a stun with a single strike. The stun system takes most skill away and forces players to guess.
In my case, I already memorized my safe moves, frame advantage, best throws, pokes, unholdables, how to use floors, walls, ceilings, what are my best launchers, juggles, I'm constantly using PB and many other things while my friend is just mashing a few moves to put me in stun and guess right afterwards. It's frustrating because when I played VF5 I never lost against someone who played worse or a less-skilled player but in DOA5, though I actually like the game a lot, I lose too many matches against players who definitely don't have my same skill.
It's not that "I'm mad" or I'm "looking for excuses". It's just the plain truth.
Hold on a sec. On the last page you outright said you didn't like the threshold, don't use it and you don't want it shortened and now you do? Come on, don't just agree with people if you want to save face.
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