Competitive balance: DOA5U mechanics changes

[David Gregg]

I was wondering this. Why is Jann Lee's Flying Side Kick unblockable but Eliot's isn't? Jann Lee already has his Dragon Gunner OH. Kinda screams of bias. At least Rig's Flying Side Kick grants him his Flamingo bending stance.

I don't know if anyone knows the frame rate but I think Eliot can execute the move faster. Also since it's instead of , it's more accessible. You can really throw off opponents when you're simply punching and then all of the sudden you come flying at them with his side kick.

But we really just need to wait and see what tweaks TN has made for all of the characters and hope that they focus on buffing all the characters instead of trying to nerf the ones they feel are "cheap".

 

[David Gregg]

Eliot and Kokoro have good BT games and multiple ways to enter from moves that transition.

I don't want to keep bringing up character specifics since this is a mechanics thread but just b/c Eliot has attacks to enter the transition doesn't mean they're effective. Try using and most opponents are going to anticipate your launcher (especially with the delay that occurs between the last punch and the launcher). Yes you can enter his BT using but unless you wait long enough, the that connects isn't a launcher and is completely worthless other then the fact that it can track.

 

[TRI Mike]

This pic reminded me of all of us reacting to the demo impressions so I had to do it.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

I was wondering this. Why is Jann Lee's Flying Side Kick unblockable but Eliot's isn't? Jann Lee already has his Dragon Gunner OH. Kinda screams of bias. At least Rig's Flying Side Kick grants him his Flamingo bending stance.

Just TN continuing to shit on him every way they can. not only is his blockable but its a guard break thats actually unsafe and is throw punishable by the entire cast.

 

[Zeo]

All sit-down stuns should be increased by at least 5 frames to guarantee some form of launcher. That or nerf slow escaping as a whole. It's silly that every character has a sit-down stun but only certain characters actually get a guaranteed launcher off of them.

Fairly quick SDS attacks should guarantee a launcher, slower ones should guarantee CBs. The easy way to keep players from chaining them would just be to make any non-launcher cause a knockdown after the first 2 SDS.

 

[kazenouta]

I might be missing something here but Eliot's flying side kick isn't unblockable.

As for the BT issue I think more characters should be able to enter this stance as they do utilize BT attacks like Hitomi, Kokoro, Eliot, etc...

yeah eliot high jump is definetely noy unblockable.

How should I put this...

All unblockable attacks are high jumping linear kicks. Hold them, sidestep them, DUCK them or crush them. IIRC, only Jann Lee, Pai and Eliot have those kicks, and they aren't as useful as you think. Definitely a tool not everyone needs. Save it for some characters only.

Regarding your second point, that's why we want the recovery frames increased - to make them more punishable. My reaction time ain't that good, so an increase by 5 frames for every hold (including advanced/expert holds and parries) should do the trick.

I didn't say they can't be avoid i only said that sometimes i guard without think. it comes natural to guard a move. what i'm saying is or to give those move to all or, and i like the second choice, eliminate those untochable. what i'm saying is not to erase the dragon kick but to transform it in a guardable move. what you have said is true, that move ar not so useful but are not so easy to read. For example with jann you can easily do a force tech when the enemy is on the ground and force him to stand up and then hit with dk, or after a sit down dk.. The second it's pretty difficult to evade 'cause Jann have a very good sit down move. So I reapeat it's not impossible to evade that but i will like if the team ninja do something about that.

 

[FakeSypha]

Just TN continuing to shit on him every way they can. not only is his blockable but its a guard break thats actually unsafe and is throw punishable by the entire cast.

Unsafe and punisheable GBs. Only on DOA5.
I just want to know what's the reasoning behind that (if there is any reasoning at all). If they wanted that particular move to be unsafe, why make it cause a GB animation? Makes no sense.

 

[MasterHavik]

I adjust the heights of juggles so combo enders can land properly.

 

[DontForkWitMe]

Unsafe and punisheable GBs. Only on DOA5.
I just want to know what's the reasoning behind that (if there is any reasoning at all). If they wanted that particular move to be unsafe, why make it cause a GB animation? Makes no sense.

You think thats bad, his wakeup P+K was a guardbreak that left him at around -20 on block pre-1.03. Even TN knew how absurd and horse shit that was and now its -5 which of course is still throw punishable as if it was some sort of consolation to eliot players. instead of opponents having time to make a ham and cheese sandwich before deciding to punish they now no longer have that luxury and have to punish right away...such amazing balance testers these TN guys huh?

speaking of guard breaks i hope what im hearing of the faster characters losing guardbreaks in 5U is true, they should be exclusive to the heavy powerhouse characters like bass, bayman, leon, and rachel and all offer advantage on block to make up for their lack of speed/mixups. tiny ass ayane shouldn't be guardbreaking shit compared to big mutha fuckas like bass and leon

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

OK .. so I spoke with japanese players Light_K and Wuroncha ..
There was supposed to be a 3rd player who had more hands on with DOA5U but he couldn't make it.

Regarding 300 HP:
- They think that with the current system 240 HP would be too short for the game in its current state.
- They like the 270 HP that they currently have in 1.03A.
- They still remain reserved regarding the 300 HP. The reason is that they aren't sure how the game is going to flow with the increase of hold damage, the inclusion of power launchers and the more guaranteed setups from stuns.so they think that this was the reason for returning to 300 HP since 270 would seem too short as 240 seems too short in the current state of 1.03A. (I personally agree)
- They do agree that the longer the HP the more boring the match would become.

Regarding LOW Hold +5 frames:
- They like it.

Regarding Hold Extra damage:
- Comparing DOA4 and 5 .. they do not want the damage to be as high as DOA4.
- They like the current damage of holds.
- They understand the rational behind Shimbori's decision to increase hold damage. but they don't want the damage to be as severe as DOA4.
- They also made it very clear that they DO NOT want a DOA4 style game and they've grown out of that mentality.
- Wuroncha was happy with the hold damage increase since he is a brad player and he feels that his holds are rather weak.

Regarding force techs:
- They love them as much as we do. and they use them as much as we do.
- They're on the same page in a sense that the do not wanna lose them. They actually like them and want them in.
- in their own words, they say that force techs expose the opponent's bad habits, which is a great thing.

Regarding Lost properties and safety of some moves:
- They had mixed feelings in a sense that they would like to see how the game would play out (meaning were other moves altered to get advantage or not).
- They do acknowledge the value of frame traps in the game.
- They were quite excited about having to re-learn the game, since this IS a new version.
- They felt confident that Shinbori knows what hes doing with the characters.
- They brought up the example of Kasumi, and the japanese players have mixed feeling about her changes because they seem a bit drastic. Some like the changes, others hate the loss of old tools .. its pretty much the same as us really.

I forgot to mention sidestepping .. Sorry >__>
but what I can tell from all the times that I've been on stream with them, they actually like the DOA SS system in its current state... but don't quote me on that .. lol

other tidbits:
- Light_K mentioned that Rachel has some beastly damage output, and is fun and easy to use.
- also that power launchers have really strong damage potential getting rid of more than half your life from a CB.(150+ damage)
- I asked them about Ariel Gardens. They would like that stage back too.
- They wanted Tengu and Raidou too (but Mochi-A didnt want Tengu .. lol)
- They would like to see weather cheanging stages (Rain, Night and day variants of stages)

I hope this is of use to you guys ...


on a Side note:
I disagree with making sitdowns inescapable .. (just noticed the 2nd post). Sit downs as they are are fine, maybe if they increase slightly the advantage of SOME sitdowns to allow a little more, then yes. But, I would rather keep the SE possible in them. We already have enough inescapable stuns, as well as other stuns that give guaranteed followups as it is. I also feel like the FLOP stuns will add that missing element that you guys want from an inescapable sitdown situation, so ... I personally disagree with removing SE from sitdowns.

 

[Kronin]

Really interesting info about the pov of the Japanese players, thanks for your effort and sharing EMPEROR!

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

Unsafe and punisheable GBs. Only on DOA5.
I just want to know what's the reasoning behind that (if there is any reasoning at all). If they wanted that particular move to be unsafe, why make it cause a GB animation? Makes no sense.

probably as a scare tactic.gaurd breaks,person panics and holds out of it,leaves them open for a throw.at least thats what ive always seen happen

yeah i saw all the Japanese going for FTs in the videos too,they probably want them back as much as yall do.

 

[HoodsXx]

probably as a scare tactic.gaurd breaks,person panics and holds out of it,leaves them open for a throw.at least thats what ive always seen happen

yeah i saw all the Japanese going for FTs in the videos too,they probably want them back as much as yall do.

That's really only players that don't know their/others frame data. If people knew everyone's frame data the move overall would be useless. So what FakeSypha's saying makes sense. Them giving that to eliot and making it unsafe is useless in a way.

 

[Gill Hustle]

That's really only players that don't know their/others frame data. If people knew everyone's frame data the move overall would be useless. So what FakeSypha's saying makes sense. Them giving that to eliot and making it unsafe is useless in a way.

I dont know exact frame numbers, but knowing that Bass and Tina have unsafe GBs I spam neutral throw with no phucks given.

 

[Zekiel]

Hi new to this site. Ill just throw my 2cents in it.
-if they get rid of force techs thats fine. l mean they already have untechable moves so there's no need. Let your opponent have the option to tech roll or not. It slows down the gameplay which is needed anyway because DOA is fast paced anyway

They need throw escapes for all throws not just nuetral. Only make them guaranteed during opponents counter holds. Because players can spam command throws and not everyone fuzzy guards all the time. In VF5FS throw escape is P+G, 4 or 6P+G, for foward and back throws. It will allow all throws to be guessed and hold them down while guarding instead of pressing T at the right time.

-CH dmg should stay nerfed not buffed. Cant promote noob gameplay with CH spamming. Everything else is fine.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I dont know exact frame numbers, but knowing that Bass and Tina have unsafe GBs I spam neutral throw with no phucks given.

Bass doesn't have unsafe guard breaks. His unsafest is -4 frames, but please, go on and keep throwing him after a GB. I'd be happy to match it with a

 

[Gill Hustle]

Sorry just general response from phone. but yeah i used to feel threatened by them and a lot of times i hit buttons when normally id just try to block.

 

[MasterHavik]

If I recall you're random at advantage at the start of the round and it should just be both players at neutral and not +2.

 

[TRI Mike]

Tina doesn't have unsafe GBs either. After 1.03a the -22 ones turned into .5 ones. I still think it's retarded that they're negative.

Who cares if Power Launcher combos deal a ton of damage¿ You fall for one it should hurt. We have to play with 240.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

They need throw escapes for all throws not just nuetral. Only make them guaranteed during opponents counter holds. Because players can spam command throws and not everyone fuzzy guards all the time. In VF5FS throw escape is P+G, 4 or 6P+G, for foward and back throws. It will allow all throws to be guessed and hold them down while guarding instead of pressing T at the right time.

That's a terrible idea, that means characters who are unsafe as a balance for being fast, having great string mix up or hitting like a truck can get away with being throw punished for doing unsafe strings.