Yeah, not like moves you'd use, such as 
and which completely whiff on certain characters (I'm looking at you, Christie and Helena).
and which completely whiff on certain characters (I'm looking at you, Christie and Helena).
DOA5U Bass General Discussion: Champion Edition
- Thread starter UncleKitchener
- Start date
Batcommander
Well-Known Member
So . . . thoughts on upcoming Bass changes? I dont even know what to do with them tbh, was 4P+K even worth using anyways?
Coulda been worse, really. I will hold judgement 'till I get my hands on the character, but right now, I'm not super impressed or interested, except for a few things.
WR P+K is something I'd probably only use in stun situations, but it's probably going to be easier to pull off now because you can possibly buffer a crouch dash and go straight into this move. WR P+K was already okay on block because the follow-up P could not be interrupted and the grab could transition well from the first GB, but with the new GB and the longer start-up on the second P, I'm not sure if he's still interruptable or not. I didn't use this move too much anyway, but maybe the new command change might help.
44K makes no sense, since 44P and 44K moves are usually backward-transition type of maneuvers for VF and DOA characters. It might make it useful when you do 44_ which walking away from an opponent, but you can't treat it as a whiff punisher. Though we all know why this and WR _4P+K were changed and that was to facilitate the PL! into the player's game without any potential input errors.
The 2K change really interests me.
WR P+K is something I'd probably only use in stun situations, but it's probably going to be easier to pull off now because you can possibly buffer a crouch dash and go straight into this move. WR P+K was already okay on block because the follow-up P could not be interrupted and the grab could transition well from the first GB, but with the new GB and the longer start-up on the second P, I'm not sure if he's still interruptable or not. I didn't use this move too much anyway, but maybe the new command change might help.
44K makes no sense, since 44P and 44K moves are usually backward-transition type of maneuvers for VF and DOA characters. It might make it useful when you do 44_ which walking away from an opponent, but you can't treat it as a whiff punisher. Though we all know why this and WR _4P+K were changed and that was to facilitate the PL! into the player's game without any potential input errors.
The 2K change really interests me.
I Don't think you guys realize how good of a buff the (new) WR 4P+K is.
The move was and mist likely still is a high crushing attack that leaves the opponent in a lift stun. This opens them completely up to a BT 4K sds into guaranteed 33p into oki, or they have to hold and risk getting thrown by BT h+p which I would currently believe is back to being an OH, and they said nothing about the counter or hicounter versions.
Now, the guard break, if indeed the BT Throw is an Oh it means this 10 FRAME offensive hold will catch anything but a 9 frame jab masher, but still turn you around in the case of that 9 frame jab.
And Don't forget about bt 2h+p as a low hold reactionary option that leaves Bass BT at +10.
The move was and mist likely still is a high crushing attack that leaves the opponent in a lift stun. This opens them completely up to a BT 4K sds into guaranteed 33p into oki, or they have to hold and risk getting thrown by BT h+p which I would currently believe is back to being an OH, and they said nothing about the counter or hicounter versions.
Now, the guard break, if indeed the BT Throw is an Oh it means this 10 FRAME offensive hold will catch anything but a 9 frame jab masher, but still turn you around in the case of that 9 frame jab.
And Don't forget about bt 2h+p as a low hold reactionary option that leaves Bass BT at +10.
Batcommander
Well-Known Member
Thank you for pointing out the possibilities with these buffs. BT throw being returned to an OH would be amazing, i hope that makes it in!
If what you're saying is indeed true and BT OH is back, then I understand why they reduced the frame advantage for that and only gave you a guaranteed 9PP or 41236H+P, otherwise, it would just be TN saying "yeah, we're still getting complaints about high damage from this, so we kept on shitting on it" even though 44P was very easily stagger escapable and 9PP wasn't even guaranteed since you could always hold the second punch after stagger escape.
Besides, the change log still called it a BT throw. I mean, if they add that back, this character would actually be pretty boss and worth picking against the 9-f jabbers, but I'm not getting my hopes up. Right now, he's still viable in those matchups, but you have to outperform the other guy in many departments and that's just how it is.
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The 9PP and 41236H+P are still not guaranteed if the opponent after the throw does a low attack (high crush) on 0 frame.
However a TFBB is guaranteed and still does the same throw as 41236H+P. Attack-wise, his 6KP would be the onlything "guaranteed" like his 214H+P 6H+P.
Lastly, it should be noted the changes to Christie and Helena's crouching hurt box,, which plagued Bass.
However a TFBB is guaranteed and still does the same throw as 41236H+P. Attack-wise, his 6KP would be the onlything "guaranteed" like his 214H+P 6H+P.
Lastly, it should be noted the changes to Christie and Helena's crouching hurt box,, which plagued Bass.
Hold on, shouldn't 33P or 7K be guaranteed at the very least because of the 4-frames of the BT to forward transition? I suppose the only characters who'd be able to escape this mix-up would be Lei Fang and Bayman or any other character with a BT parry or hold. I mean, that's how it was in DOA3 with the guaranteed 33P on certain character after pick-up on BT opponents.
With this change, then it should be justified to change BT throw into a BT OH.
How fast is he TFBB from that position and what shortcut do you use? Is it 66 41236H+P or something like 2364H+P?
Also, big thanks to @EMPEROR_COW for forwarding the hurtbox issue with Christie and Helena to Shimbori.
That is correct, I forgot about mid hitting launchers. And Leifang & Bayman takes a few frames to perform their back-turned parries. They practically have 4 or 5 frame startup I think.
I would suggest doing the 643H+P notation so that the crouching frame is the last frame to be done incase you mistime the crouch. You only have like a 2 or 3 frame window. Will take practice.
I would suggest doing the 643H+P notation so that the crouching frame is the last frame to be done incase you mistime the crouch. You only have like a 2 or 3 frame window. Will take practice.
Yeah, you're right. The crouching should take around 2-4 frames using that method, but I need to test all the shortcuts after 1.04 is out.
I think after the positing shift from BT T/OH, the only attacks that would not be guaranteed would be things like 8K or 9P that would potentially be beaten by instant high crushes.
Again, I think it be very fair if his lost frame advantage is to balance the nature of the BT OH, if this is indeed true and that it's back to being an OH. Otherwise, this change would just be a pointless nerf and knee jerk response to bitching from some players, most likely the Japanese players.
How popular is the character in Japan? Have you asked people what they think about him?
Why do people hate him so much? Isn't Potemkin the real center of hate when it comes to grapplers?
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Nah, after my performance at the tournament I was told by the Japanese, Koreans, and Taiwanese that they are going to look into picking him up since I use him in a way none of them thought he could be used. They don't hate Bass, and some of them even said they want to see him buffed.
But even I agree that BT OH with guaranteed 9PP 3K 33P 41236H+P/3P6KP2H+P is too much for the frequency that OH would be used.
But even I agree that BT OH with guaranteed 9PP 3K 33P 41236H+P/3P6KP2H+P is too much for the frequency that OH would be used.
I don't mind if it's an OH with below 80 guaranteed damage. That would actually strike me as a balanced tool with good damage output.
If it's a throw, then it would make sense if it's still +21 because of how risky it is.
Yeah, they didn't really know how to use him properly, hence why he was so unpopular.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
I think there's enough ways for opponents to get out of the BT OH that the guaranteed 9PP is fine. Its great that the character had a setup to go to. But if its an OH and you get guaranteed 6KP, he's still doing ok - pushing them back into the ground wakeup setup. Not great, but ok.
Anything else? If that's it, then that's not much of a change, really. He is pretty much the same as he was.
It would be nice if they add something new.
It would be nice if they add something new.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
Normal throw at bt is so useless
They need to wake up and stop being afraid of characters having good tools
The fact that players in Japan were surprised by bass shows he is underutilized and being so cautious is ridiculous
Make it good and go with it, there are universal ways to deal with it - just duck!
It's easy to see when bass goes bt and to stop him also
They need to trust the players to find out how far they can go with things especially in a test environment; but I never saw any proem at the end of doa5 vanilla with this move
They need to wake up and stop being afraid of characters having good tools
The fact that players in Japan were surprised by bass shows he is underutilized and being so cautious is ridiculous
Make it good and go with it, there are universal ways to deal with it - just duck!
It's easy to see when bass goes bt and to stop him also
They need to trust the players to find out how far they can go with things especially in a test environment; but I never saw any proem at the end of doa5 vanilla with this move
I dunno, is this saying enough?
https://twitter.com/UncleKitchener/status/423878282463805440
I don't know what to say anymore. Give me some ideas within twitter word limit.
So with the reduced advantage on his BT throw, does that mean characters like Bayman and Fang can parry his follow-ups? It doesn't make any sense to reduce the advantage since its a high risk throw. So easy for someone to mash and you get blown up.