DOA5LR Top Players are Returning to Dead or Alive 5: Last Round

[WAZAAAAA]

@DestructionBomb
yeah my bad about that one, I'm not good at processing certain tastes, like with music
on one hand I understand that music is subjective and people listen to everything
on the other hand I'm not mature enough to accept it lmao I'm like if you listen to wubwub/trap do the world a favor and neck yourself right now

Do you know what simple change would turn DOA5's comeback mechanic into a non-comeback mechanic? Just removing the health trigger. That's it. That would remove the reward to the loser aspect of the move. Now here's how DOA6's meter works in detail https://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/understanding-the-break-gauge.8420/

 

[Rikuto]

@DestructionBomb
yeah my bad about that one, I'm not good at processing certain tastes, like with music
on one hand I understand that music is subjective and people listen to everything
on the other hand I'm not mature enough to accept it lmao I'm like if you listen to wubwub/trap do the world a favor and neck yourself right now

Do you know what simple change would turn DOA5's comeback mechanic into a non-comeback mechanic? Just removing the health trigger. That's it. That would remove the reward to the loser aspect of the move. Now here's how DOA6's meter works in detail https://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/understanding-the-break-gauge.8420/

There is a difference between the competitive disruption of a mechanic that undermines system and matchup knowledge and one that does not.

Both games have comeback mechanics. One requires work to land, the other doesn't. What DOA 6 has is something worse than a comeback mechanic. It is a chaos factor that nullifies intelligent decision making. DOA 5 did not have anything nearly as disruptive as BH and BB. It came out of nowhere and was unpredictable. PB and PL took time to set up and required multiple mistakes, or one giant mistake. That is why they are far more tolerable.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

BB could straight up be a win button that ends the round instantly and it would still not qualify as a comeback mechanic, quite the opposite, because of HOW it is built.

In Rising Thunder you can pick your type of meter before the match and it is the perfect representation of the two concepts:
Kinetic Deflect fills up by taking damage. Comeback mechanic, loser gets rewarded for losing.
Kinetic Advance fills up by inflicting damage. Slippery slope, winner gets rewarded even more for winning.

I'm not arguing against BB and BH being "bad for competition", "disruptive", or a "crutch". I'm just being nitpicky and saying it's technically not a damn comeback mechanic.

 

[lopedo]

BB could straight up be a win button that ends the round instantly and it would still not qualify as a comeback mechanic, quite the opposite, because of HOW it is built.

In Rising Thunder you can pick your type of meter before the match and it is the perfect representation of the two concepts:
Kinetic Advance fills up by taking damage. Comeback mechanic, loser gets rewarded for losing.
Kinetic Deflect fills up by inflicting damage. Slippery slope, winner gets rewarded even more for winning.

I'm not arguing against BB and BH being "bad for competition", "disruptive", or a "crutch". I'm just being nitpicky and saying it's technically not a damn comeback mechanic.

I agree. BB and BH are not comeback mechanics. They aren't meant to be used when somebody is down. They are meant as a carry for bad players, but because of how little Team Ninja knows about their own game, the crutches ARE the game... which is why nobody wants to play it.

 

[Onryoki]

long story short: DOA6 is shit and so is DOA4

 

[DestructionBomb]

I agree. BB and BH are not comeback mechanics.

You weren't suppose to gass his head up. He knows damn well those are comeback mechanics.

 

[DestructionBomb]

You won an argument

Yes because that's essentially what it is you pleb. The devs themselves and most of the top players called it that way.

Wazaa is certainly helpful

He has. Who says he didn't.

But that doesn't give you the option to be the grand wizard on determining with what's a good game or not. You have to actually compete and play the games and understanding what's going on to determine the offset and value behind it with what's going on screen.

Does he have to play a vf character, make combo vids, and put vids of only him winning to have a credible opinion?

Oh look, someone quoted me while he's having a flex with a muscle cushion on it ready to pop by simply walking lol.

I provided my opinion about it ages ago and that's from playing the game with some of the best players to which some of themselves also agree because I at least back my shit up and making sure the opinion holds weight before I do so. What exactly have you contributed?

 

[DestructionBomb]

Oh you are just now about to help, cool cool. Nice good. Actions speak louder than words, but hilarious that you "just now" decide to help everyone in DOA5LR. Most of the information is out there already for that game but can never hurt with more, but thank you for taking the time to... uh..? contribute to a gruesome time to do so.

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

[lopedo]

You won an argument without saying anything interesting or insightful. Congratulations? Wazaa is certainly helpful and more informative than either you or lopedo. Does he have to play a vf character, make combo vids, and put vids of only him winning to have a credible opinion?

lopedo is not interested in helping anybody get better. I learned, y'all can learn too. Or... obviously not. But you could, maybe, if you tried. And yeah, you generally have to win something before people take you seriously.

 

[Onryoki]

lopedo is not interested in helping anybody get better. I learned, y'all can learn too. Or... obviously not. But you could, maybe, if you tried. And yeah, you generally have to win something before people take you seriously.

No shade but you won shit and people still don’t take you seriously. I don’t think winning something has to do with someone being credible. People like to think in hierarchies when it comes to fighting games and that everybody who isn’t as known or whatever isn’t as credible.

 

[KasumiLover]

Since when did contributing become a competition on who's done it most and when did it become so elitist on having an opinion on how a game's played? °_O

From what I'm seeing the main issue most players who don't play 6 have is the meter and the break hold and blow, but I think you have to just get used to it since I don't see meter going away any time soon. Break blows are still punishable and you can just throw or use a low to stop them, like how you would just throw or try to crush an OH when you're at a disadvantage. I feel overall that the people who don't feel their character is strong in the 6 meta will go back to LR since their character was stronger there which is fine, although spectator wise I'm kinda over LR since 6 is more the fresher version of doa. LR is a good game too but I think the artificial difficulty factor is why most prefer it over 6 even tho I feel like the overly long stuns and the CB system is kinda dated compared to 6's fatal stun system and how the stun is more reasonable and it's mainly the slower characters with longer stuns or ways to force a hold like how Kasumi doesn't have any faint stun or crumple stuns while Christie and Marie Rose do.

I feel like the different meta just appeals to different people, although I prefer 6 since it has a more defensive and more current gameplay direction with how it's more advantage oriented and you cant do the same things you could in LR like how Kasumi could combo from her 1K low and how a simple CH 1P could give her so much while in 6 it's more subdued and you can only connect stuff that's below 13i. If there is a 6U I think they could definitely refine the meter system so the mechanics are less abuseable since that's mainly why players complain from what I see, they don't like BBs because when they're at an advantage they don't want to have to just sidestep or throw on a guess when they should have the advantage and the + on block doesn't help it either if they do guard. I think if 6U happens they could make BBs unsafer since I don't see them just getting rid of it to appease people. Break holds they should make cost a full meter since I feel if you wanna have a GTFO move that gives you + and stops ant attack, it should cost the same as a BB since they're both powerful moves imo with different benefits.

Making adjustments like that I think can help because at the end of the day, you can go back to LR but 6 is still the newest version of 6 and if they make another title, there's no guarantee that the meter will just disappear.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Where are people who just jumped into this conversation get the idea that contributing is part of a competition or elitist shenanigans? It never was, you either contribute or you don't, don't just make shit up on the fly... It's whether or not your opinion holds weight to the matter at hand because people can just toss out opinions just to "throw it out there". Then at cases, people can make statements without any evidence to support it, or the evidence is not prominent enough to affect the game.

The recent later topic is about DOA6 regarding it's comeback mechanics. People have provided points as to why it was, including some of the top players (Kwiggles, Bladez etc.) because if people look closely to how the matches and general game goes, it's essentially what it is in a more literal sense.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Doa6 BB and BH aren't even really comeback mechanics.

Technically it is and certainly isn't the health drop version of DOA5 or Marvel's X-factor since those are comeback factors too, but go on.

The game can be played just fine without using them at all.

Well now, here's a post that can be agreed with. Maybe if they never took that approach in the beginning, this wouldn't even be a discussion because it wouldn't exist.

If you are playing 6 why wouldn't you use it, you'd just be limiting yourself.

 

[lopedo]

No shade but you won shit and people still don’t take you seriously. I don’t think winning something has to do with someone being credible. People like to think in hierarchies when it comes to fighting games and that everybody who isn’t as known or whatever isn’t as credible.

That's because I spent a lot of time intentionally ruining my own image to 99% of the DOA population because y'all didn't matter to me. But also, depending on who you ask and when, 100% of every human being who has ever touched a DOA game or 0% of the entire human race listens to me. Between Master, Team Ninja and others telling me these things, I have no idea what to believe.

It isn't a competition but telling the guy who's probably helped out the most to sit down-over doa6?. C'mon.
Doa6 BB and BH aren't even really comeback mechanics. More like assets, more like a convenience. The game can be played just fine without using them at all.

How do you help people in DOA 6? The game carries them? I'm genuinely curious... how do you help somebody in DOA 6?

 

[Radiance]

In a game that's already yolo more yolo shenanigan's were added that dumbed the game down. To a certain extent, yes, the PB and PL were comeback mechanics I suppose but they are no where as severe nor as imposing as the break blow or break hold. We lost guaranteed launchers in DOA6 due to the break hold which was something I was excited about in DOA5. The purpose of the fatal stun imo was completely mitigated. Fatal stuns were already slow, unsafe, and required setup's to land due to their start up, so now offensive players are forced to make a decision between baiting a throw or launch? My reward for guessing correctly is more guessing and if I guess wrong I'm losing out on damage or possibly in a situation where I've lost momentum, my back is to the wall, I'm at frame disadvantage or all of the above? Makes sense.

Break Blows have been OD since launch; They Sabaki mids/highs, and guard break for plus frames. I'm supposed to randomly throw or do lows hoping I don't get slapped into the nearest wall or danger zone. I'll take DOA5's "supposedly" comeback mechanics over DOA6 any day. Shit you had to work for.

 

[Matt Ponton]

PB and PL are comeback mechanics.
BB and BH are not comeback mechanics.

If PB and PL were able to be performed without having to take damage first at all, then they would stop being comeback mechanics.
If the break gauge was altered so you only get meter when you take damage, then BB and BH would start being a comeback mechanic.

PB and PL require more setup to connect than BB and BH, but that has no bearing on any in order to fall under the definition of being a comeback mechanic.

 

[DestructionBomb]

BB and BH are not comeback mechanics.

It is, but I do not have to see why we have to go back to square one to explain and simplify with why it is in the first place.

Whenever someone makes a comparison to other games, people have to understand that DOA already broke the traditional methods, with the implementation of meter and using as a "set" hold placement. You essentially created a barrier that halts offense to completely reset neutral. Comeback mechanics in other fighters generally have a placement for that in "offense" or access to unique functions, or general low health ticks to trigger a special circumstances (X-factor). DOA is no different, 5 had it. 6 is hardly any different and just a looser term to support/pick-me-up.

The entire roster's universal hold system are comeback mechanics if we had to go in a more broader terms, but yet everyone has access to it that's general and tolerable where it's fixed and constant.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

now I get it, you're just confusing "defensive mechanic" with "comeback mechanic"

 

[DestructionBomb]

Don't think you do, but if the topic is going to be on repeat it's on you to figure it out.

Anyways, expect DOA6U to be probably the same as vanilla and make everyone play make-believe fundamentals I guess.

Regarding DOA5LR, I can't see it be a continued front when it'll have the same issue as 6 when it comes to long lasting effects considering that it's not being supported anymore. Are people actually going to continue with 5LR? or is it just a one time thing?

 

[crapoZK]

Freestep Dodge/Dash Cancel. It's the meme version to FADC from Street Fighter without burning meter.

This game man... So fucking good