Tomonobu Itagaki On Dead or Alive 5: “My Daughter Was Totally Ruined”

[Kronin]

I can't say too much on 4 other than it was a beautiful game and I much preferred the stages over 5's. my copy was stolen around 2007, didn't get around to a new copy till like 2011, and only could play online.

I really like the DoA4 stages me too, but I believe that the ones of DoA5 are truly nice too for ideas and settings, the only problem is the fair structure (in addition to other graphical elements that make them less beauty). At the same time without doubt this, together with other fixes, allow definitely a better fair game thing that instead apparently DoA4 wasn't able to keep. TN already showned with DoA2 and DoA3 to be able to create not ordinary stages but good for the competitive fighting, I hope that they will return to this standard even for their next game.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Itagaki has further clarified his take on the new Team NINJA and DOA5:

"Divided" is the keyword for this comment, so keep it in your head. It's time for you guys to know the facts, you loyal DOA fans have been divided by current Team Ninja. No one can deny the truth.

I created the DOA universe with the goal that many types of players could all enjoy that universe together. More than anything else, being able to enjoy the game just by touching it was a fundamental design method.

"A game that everyone could enjoy"

What's the meaning of everyone? At least for the DOA universe, I and my fellows were imagining a few kinds of players. Let's try listing a few:

- serious fighting game fans
- casual fighting game fans (it's important that even if you lose you can still have fun)
- action game fans
- people who love Japanese animation
- people who love "characters"
- people who like to romp around in beautiful environments
- people who enjoy taking a little risk,like almost getting hit by a car outside a casino (being able to avoid that risk through skill is important also)

And lemme add a couple more to that list:

- people who love sexy women
- people who hate games that take eroticism way over-the-top

That's about it, I guess. I can't forget about any one of those types of people. Reason being is that all of these kinds of gamers from many different positions have supported the DOA universe we created for a long long time. Thank you guys, honestly.

Now, back to the "divided."
It's obvious that you guys, the loyal DOA fans, have been divided. Lemme explain in a way anyone can understand. I made the fighting game "DOA", and the action game "Ninja Gaiden." As the third pillar, I also created "DOA:Xtreme." Why did I create DOAX? The major purpose of DOAX was to act as a firewall for the main DOA fighter series, so that it wouldn't become excessively erotic.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love sexy women, that's also one purpose. But in a fighting game, there's no need for really excessive sexual imagery. Naturally, there're definitely people in the DOA fanbase who are looking for that. But at the same time, there're also those who don't wanna see that. So I decided to make a spin-off title to solve that dilemma with Zack Island, a paradise on an island in the south. As the creator of the DOA universe, I wanted to make and keep all DOA fans as happy as possible, so I've set up that barrier.

In other words, DOA and DOAX were two games with completely different purposes, and you absolutely CANNOT lump them together. But what did DOA5 blah blah blah do? I'm sure you guys already know. But lemme proclaim. Current Team NINJA was/is injecting too much sexualism into a game where it's not needed for several reasons. It's like attempting to prolong its almost dead body with a life-sustaining serum (or poison, in this case). As a result, those fans who don't like super-sexualized games have backed away from the fighting game DOA. What the hell kind of game designer would do something as insane as that? But they did.
All DOA fans shouldn't avert their eyes from this issue.

Next, I'll talk about game systems.
It's really difficult to make a game that appeals to serious, hardcore users, while at the same time being a game that's just fun to play. To accomplish that, the game system needs to be able to meet the desires of both types of players. That's our goal, the raison d'etre of DOA. There're many fighting games. Virtua Fighter, Tekken, Street Fighter - they are all amazing, fantastic games. But there is zero meaning in changing DOA to mimic them. But what did DOA5 blah blah blah do? You all know the answer already. By this crazy change, a large portion of the
casual fans, now pissed off and upset with a game system too focused only on winning and losing, have backed away from the fighting game DOA.
Here also was a ludicrous decision that split the DOA community. You can't ignore that either.

Now, I can sit here and pick apart the game forever, but lemme get to the point.
"Because of a series of ridiculous decisions from the current Team NINJA, the loyal DOA fanbase has been gradually cut up and divided into narrow uncomfortable positions."

This is the situation DOA fans now face. In my original post, I said that "some people misunderstand DOA's situation." Maybe some people also misunderstood that. But I think if you read this comment now, you'll know what I'm saying.

Who divided you guys?
Why were you divided?

Is there anything sadder than watching friends who've been divided turn their eyes away from what's important, and instead turn against each other? Innocent gamers just wanna enjoy DOA universe, who have had their playground plundered, who used to be one but divided due to some fatal blemish, just bashing on each other...

Hey! Is that what you want!?
Please remember that the reason the DOA universe has been going for 20 years now is due to you fans - all of you fans. I always appreciate all DOA fans. Don't mistake the real reason why you've been divided. That's what I want to ask you warriors who know the facts.

.
Never take your eyes off the target.

 

[Doa_Eater]

Agree with him or disagree, there's none more passionate developer then Itagaki.

 

[Rikuto]

I dropped my two cents on his post, but truthfully I'm outnumbered as hell. Most of the people on his facebook page are not what I would call DOA fans as much as Itagaki fans. They give off the impression that as long as the game is not made by Itagaki, it just won't ever be good enough. I don't think I can speak logically with that kind of group mentality.

 

[Tempest]

I agree with him on going over board with the sexy. Not that I don't like sexy costumes but it's been taken a bit too far. I can't agree with him on the gameplay at all though. DOA 5 is still very unique and is in my opinion much more fun and competitive than 4 ever was. Presentation wise 5 has a lot of issues, but I'll take a unpolished diamond over a polished turd anyday.

 

[Jyakotu]

Past DOA games have had sexually revealing outfits, let's not act like this just started with DOA5. Hell, DOA3 and DOA4 barely had any costumes at all. We have to remember, this is the same developer that felt DOA4 was the peak of the series in terms of gameplay. DOA5 might be "dividing" people over a few silly costumes, but they aren't real fans if they don't acknowledge how much the gameplay has vastly improved from DOA4. The costumes are optional DLC that you do not have to buy or even see! I'm sure fans of the series knew what DOAX was for and why it is credited as a spin off game. It had nothing to do with the fighting game series. Just like Death by Degrees had no canon relationship with Tekken. While I appreciate Itagaki's input on DOA5, I feel that the game and franchise has come a long way since his departure.

 

[Kronin]

I'm glad that this time Itagaki posted a truly articulated answer.

I think that maybe today or tomorrow I will post an answer on his profile, but in general my thoughts are the usual ones:

- From the competetitive side, I'm not sure of the East but DoA4 wasn't able to convince the passionate community in the West. From that point it failed to build a game liked from who love to fight seriously, at least hearing the opinion of the majority of the players of that time. In addition Itagaki should ask to himself why DoA5, that has more fanservice of the previous games of the fighting series, is also the one that paradoxically is not mentioned only for it? The reason is because there are people that are seriously playing it as a fighting game and discussing it, same for the team behind that is actively working on it developing the game through costant patches. Imo the care of this Team NINJA is superior to the one of Itagaki on the others, but very likely not because the latter is not passionate toward his games rather because he has a very different opinion about what to get from it and DoA4 gave the evidence.

- From the sexual side this is overall a fault of TK, not Team NINJA: the latter tried to create a sexy fighting game compared to a more erotic one (the transparency of the outfits it's a perfect sign of it, the game wasn't thought for including so much swimsuits showing naked skin), but the community declined the idea how Shimbori stated. Later Hayashi openly mentioned how despite a request for male costumes, people are buying the sexy outfits for the females as the swimsuits, sign that they like them (however there are also people completionist that do them, personally I'm "guilty" of it). So this aspect is not dividing the community, or at least the part of people against it is a minority.

Why there is a big request for this fanservice? Even admitting that Itagaki is honest saying that he created DoAX as a "firewall" for the fanservice in the DoA series, the current outcome imo is an indirect consequence of his apparently misunderstood work. Swimsuits were included in DoA originating from the DoAX series, same thing for the OMG mode that is just son of the DoAX2 breast algorythm. I'm not saying that without DoAX2 now they will not be surely in DoA5 (the sixaxis implementation come from Hayashi's NGS2), but how the things are now people asked for them because aware that they could obtain them: it was already happened in the history of the franchise.

PS: Like I said more times I'm a fan of the DoAX series (and I would lie saying that I dislike the fanservice), however this doesn't mean that I like the direction got from DoAX2. DoAXBV was able to stay "classy", same for the inclusion of the swimsuits in DoA2U, sadly DoAX2 wasn't able to be an evolution of the first game (even the good ideas were poorly implemented IMO) but rather focused itself for the most on the fanservice pushing the game from the sexy toward the erotic.

 

[Rikuto]

I agree with him on going over board with the sexy. Not that I don't like sexy costumes but it's been taken a bit too far. I can't agree with him on the gameplay at all though. DOA 5 is still very unique and is in my opinion much more fun and competitive than 4 ever was. Presentation wise 5 has a lot of issues, but I'll take a unpolished diamond over a polished turd anyday.

This is pretty much exactly where my opinion lies. And DOA 4 only got one update, which actually nerfed the game competitively. I think they were doing the opposite of polishing there..

 

[Argentus]

There was nothing neutral about the player on the ground having the advantage. In 5, you're at neutral because you are far enough away from the opponent to space or evade if you don't want to play the 'guess which wake-up kick' game.

how was the grounded player at advantage in 4?

 

[Rikuto]

Longer wakeup kick range that was inescapable for a lot of the cast (Perfect Legend used to refer to wakeup kicks as projectiles, half joking, half serious), multiple wakeup options that were not necessary, and a deep stun when they hit even on NH.

Combine this with the fact that you HAD to deal with them anytime you knocked someone off a platform or down a staircase, and you had a really fucked up system.

OH BY THE WAY GUYS THIS HAPPENED.

https://www.facebook.com/tomonobu.i...mment_id=1514843302113116&notif_t=share_reply

 

[Argentus]

Longer wakeup kick range that was inescapable for a lot of the cast (Perfect Legend used to refer to wakeup kicks as projectiles, half joking, half serious), multiple wakeup options that were not necessary, and a deep stun when they hit even on NH.

Combine this with the fact that you HAD to deal with them anytime you knocked someone off a platform or down a staircase, and you had a really fucked up system.

OH BY THE WAY GUYS THIS HAPPENED.

https://www.facebook.com/tomonobu.i...mment_id=1514843302113116&notif_t=share_reply

ohkay I kinda see what you mean, looking back on it. Am I remembering wrong or were you able to low hold while downed? I coulda sworn Zacks used to screw themselves over by trying to chun li downed opponents.

 

[Matt Ponton]

You could never perform a defensive hold while in a grounded down state. Some characters had Offensive Throws while in the down state.

 

[Awesmic]

how was the grounded player at advantage in 4?

Performing untechables from any weight class after a launch is one such reason. If you time 2k just right as the opponent lands on the ground from a launch, you could lock them down to the universally shared force tech, which is 2k (which is always a free hit), followed by any low attack (which forces the opponent to get up in a very specific direction). This in turn forces the opponent to do more guessing as they get up.

DISCLAIMER: I'm only posting what I know, so if I missed something, cut me some slack. I did the best I could to elaborate, and at least I tried.

 

[Argentus]

You could never perform a defensive hold while in a grounded down state. Some characters had Offensive Throws while in the down state.

then im confused as heck. Why did zacks multikick used to not be a threat....I remember seeing it as an opportunity to punish, not as a threat...

Performing untechables from any weight class after a launch is one such reason. If you time 2k just right as the opponent lands on the ground from a launch, you could lock them down to the universally shared force tech, which is 2k (which is always a free hit), followed by any low attack (which forces the opponent to get up in a very specific direction). This in turn forces the opponent to do more guessing as they get up.

DISCLAIMER: I'm only posting what I know, so if I missed something, cut me some slack. I did the best I could to elaborate, and at least I tried.

I think you just described why the downed opponent was at DISADVANTAGE, or else i'm misunderstanding the post.

 

[Awesmic]

I think you just described why the downed opponent was at DISADVANTAGE, or else i'm misunderstanding the post.

Did you edit your post? I thought for a moment you posted disadvantage.

But yeah, that post was intended to be on how the opponent could be grounded to a disadvantage, as they'd be unable to perform wakeup kicks consistently, much less be unable to tech, at least. But you'd be sacrificing a more damaging juggle in the process.

 

[Chapstick]

"Please block Mat because I think he has broken your rule. Tomonobu, you said you will delete displeasing postings, right?

Postings which does not read the flow of other people’s talk displease me so much. Plus, his postings are too long. Sad person. He does bother other people too much."

^honestly felt like punching the screen when I read this

 

[Argentus]

"Please block Mat because I think he has broken your rule. Tomonobu, you said you will delete displeasing postings, right?

Postings which does not read the flow of other people’s talk displease me so much. Plus, his postings are too long. Sad person. He does bother other people too much."

^honestly felt like punching the screen when I read this

yeah...

 

[Doa_Eater]

Now i wonder if Itagaki will reply directly elaborate to Mr.Wah.

"Please block Mat because I think he has broken your rule. Tomonobu, you said you will delete displeasing postings, right?

Postings which does not read the flow of other people’s talk displease me so much. Plus, his postings are too long. Sad person. He does bother other people too much."

^honestly felt like punching the screen when I read this

He did serve up some chocolate to diabetics to be honest.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Now i wonder if Itagaki will reply directly elaborate to Mr.Wah

He won't.

 

[David Gregg]

Maybe it will give Itagaki and his fans (all 4 of them) a wake up call from their skewed little world. XD