Tomonobu Itagaki On Dead or Alive 5: “My Daughter Was Totally Ruined”

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

Care to broaden your point? I don't hate your opinion, I just want to know why you think that.

My opinion on this is... if he were back, we'd have more polish and more fun stages like House, but I'm afraid he'd hate how the gameplay is more competitive and less random, so we'd have to say byebye to that part!

When you talk about random you mean DOA4? Everyone know the random factor in this game was a completely mess(90% of the things wasn't guaranteed) and I guess that even Itagaki know that. So if he return one way or another I don't think he would do the same mistake again.

By the way has to be said that Itagaki wasn't requesting more money than the planned ones, but just asking for what he deserved and wasn't given to him.

Yes, he was just asking for his money. It was others fault that Itagaki leaves, not himself.

 

[Aerospark]

lol... I remember when CrystalKasumi started shit w/ my friends and she got dragged for it lmao. She's so dumb and hypocritical. I always see her in the tags bitching about this game yet continues to praise it at the same time. Should Itagaki return to Team Ninja for some reason keep him away from the gameplay, like honestly, the gameplay for DOA5/5+5U/5:LR wtfever is the best in this series and I hope it stays that way. If he wants to work on DOA, have him work on some stages and some new character themes, that's it.

 

[Brute]

So Kasumi basically has almost every outfit from every past DOA game to date, plus a bunch more, and now that they're running out of designs to keep giving her, they recycle some. And this is a problem how?

There are legitimate complaints to be made about the game's costumes. This is not one of them.

 

[Malesoun]

Time and time we keep seeing the argument that we should hold Itakagi with some high regard because he gave birth to the series. But why? All he did was rip another game, using the same middleware I think, and changed a few things. Selective plaigerism isn't something to be revered and he didn't do it alone.

Do we hold the original creator of Street Fighter in such high regard, arguably the most influential person in the early FG scene yet most us couldn't say who he/she is...(it's not Ono)

 

[Matt Ponton]

Are we talking Street Fighter or Street Fighter 2? Because the guys from Street Fighter went on to SNK to make Fatal Fury.

 

[Malesoun]

Are we talking Street Fighter or Street Fighter 2? Because the guys from Street Fighter went on to SNK to make Fatal Fury.

I had the first in mind, but could probably say the same about II. I didn't know that about the guys moving on to SNK, regardless I still couldn't name them and I doubt many others can (off the top of their head, so to speak).

 

[Kronin]

Oh yes Itagaki is such a Angel we know it.... god

finally the game is popular.. and now people want him back.. the game will die..when he comes back.

I didn't mention anything about what you are stating here, neither about Itagaki neither about his return, but it's only right to be fair: the money matter is not a mistake of a greed Itagaki because he was just asking for something provided from his contract.

You can disagree with his decision to abandon the Team for it, but definitely Tecmo' side is far from being without faults (and according to Itagaki, the same Tecmo's president proposed him to quit if he had something against their decision).

 

[Argentus]

Long story short, itagaki should come back and have free reign over the artistic side of DOA, while current whoever keeps control of technical side.

Though I will say this. The way they handled DOA makes me worry they'll try something like removing the hold system altogether in doa6.

Current team may be better at making "a fighter", but Itagaki is way better at making Dead Or Alive.

 

[Kronin]

Though I will say this. The way they handled DOA makes me worry they'll try something like removing the hold system altogether in doa6.

No way, people make always fun saying that DoA = Fanservice, but they forgot that is equally true that DoA = Triangle system.

A DoA without holds is not DoA and I believe that basically everyone here thinks the same: along the years I saw requests for balancing/improving the hold system, never for removing it (if not in rare cases, but this is IMO an absurd suggestion for what I said over and that was more dictated from the frustration of Doa4's gameplay).

 

[Squizzo]

Long story short, itagaki should come back and have free reign over the artistic side of DOA, while current whoever keeps control of technical side.

Though I will say this. The way they handled DOA makes me worry they'll try something like removing the hold system altogether in doa6.

Current team may be better at making "a fighter", but Itagaki is way better at making Dead Or Alive.

Nah, I'd rather not go back to the plastic anime doll style of doa4, although I would like to see the stage design take a more doa4 centric approach.
I think the reason the stages in 5 seemed so dull was because TN was going for a more gritty, dark and realistic approach to appeal to the Western AAA gamers (you can see the same design decisions in ng3). You can tell that stages like hot zone and fuel were definitely attempting to cash in on the 'COD aesthetic'.

I don't think Itagaki needs to return as it seems that TN quickly realised the error of their ways. The new stages in ultimate were generally a lot more colourful and felt like a return to doa4 and TN even stated (in relation to ng3) 'we tried to make a hamburger when we should have made sushi'.
I expect that doa6 will try to find a middle ground between the colourful beauty of doa4 and the gritty realism of doa5.

Also If you removed holds then you might as well go and remove the girls, because it wouldn't be doa without them.

 

[Argentus]

Nah, I'd rather not go back to the plastic anime doll style of doa4, although I would like to see the stage design take a more doa4 centric approach.
I think the reason the stages in 5 seemed so dull was because TN was going for a more gritty, dark and realistic approach to appeal to the Western AAA gamers (you can see the same design decisions in ng3). You can tell that stages like hot zone and fuel were definitely attempting to cash in on the 'COD aesthetic'.

I don't think Itagaki needs to return as it seems that TN quickly realised the error of their ways. The new stages in ultimate were generally a lot more colourful and felt like a return to doa4 and TN even stated (in relation to ng3) 'we tried to make a hamburger when we should have made sushi'.
I expect that doa6 will try to find a middle ground between the colourful beauty of doa4 and the gritty realism of doa5.

Also If you removed holds then you might as well go and remove the girls, because it wouldn't be doa without them.

Well the removed everything else that made it DOA with 5 so it wouldn't be too surprising.


And the stages, it was more than just "being gritty", though that's part of it. It's also that all the stages were turned into empty squares. Whereas past doa stages were full environments that you were fighting in. Even in 5u, there were no "new" stages, they just brought back some of the old stages, which now, are the only real stages in DOA5.

I think the only rea stages in doa5 before u was...what, Home?

As for character faces...um....I'm 50/50. on the one hand, the more realistic looks are more detailed, on the other, why do all the girls have bags under their eyes, and are all the guys downright ugly with their redesigns?

 

[Project Bokuho]

Scramble (the skyscraper part) is an amazing stage in DOA5.

 

[RoboJoe]

Scramble (the skyscraper part) is an amazing stage in DOA5.

Too bad the bottom part is revolting. It's really jarring that Scramble is both one of my favourite and one of my least favourite DOA5 stages at the same time.

 

[Project Bokuho]

I love the cliffhanger mechanic though. That's some epic stuff right there!

 

[just_me]

It's also that all the stages were turned into empty squares.

Well let's just drop some numbers regarding stages...

DoA3
has 14 stages overall
5+1 are "empty squares" (5 tag arenas and Tao)
4 stages are multi-tiered

DoA4
has 14 stages
3+1 "empty squares" (3 tag + biolab core..)
7 stages are multi-tiered

*note: not counting "Kyoto in Bloom Night version" and Dojo. DOATEC great hall counts as single tiered, since it only loops back into itself

DoA5:U(LR)
has 24(26) Stages
8 "empty squares"
9(11) multi tiered stages

*note: not counting Haunted Lorelei and Dojo, did not count the lowest lvl of a multi-tiered stage as an extra stage

**an "empty square" has no meaningful stage interaction besides walls (well and maybe a slight slope)

So the ratio is about the same as DoA3, and DoA5 wins everywhere when it comes to absolute numbers.
If you only look at pure stage interaction a lot of the stages are not bad imo... there is quite a lot of different stuff to interact with in many of them. But I guess art direction is really somewhat poor... e.g. DoA4 stages had more attention to detail, or at the very least more stuff in them.
I think Hotzone is a good example, there are a lot of different dangerzones (RPG, normal walls, partition PB Zone, Tank, that explosive door thingy, PB Dangerzone, could have made those guys with the shield into a "bouncy wall"- like those balls in the circus stage), but the stage just looks bland...

 

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

Well let's just drop some numbers regarding stages...

DoA3
has 14 stages overall
5+1 are "empty squares" (5 tag arenas and Tao)
4 stages are multi-tiered

DoA4
has 14 stages
3+1 "empty squares" (3 tag + biolab core..)
7 stages are multi-tiered

*note: not counting "Kyoto in Bloom Night version" and Dojo. DOATEC great hall counts as single tiered, since it only loops back into itself

DoA5:U(LR)
has 24(26) Stages
8 "empty squares"
9(11) multi tiered stages

*note: not counting Haunted Lorelei and Dojo, did not count the lowest lvl of a multi-tiered stage as an extra stage

**an "empty square" has no meaningful stage interaction besides walls (well and maybe a slight slope)

So the ratio is about the same as DoA3, and DoA5 wins everywhere when it comes to absolute numbers.
If you only look at pure stage interaction a lot of the stages are not bad imo... there is quite a lot of different stuff to interact with in many of them. But I guess art direction is really somewhat poor... e.g. DoA4 stages had more attention to detail, or at the very least more stuff in them.
I think Hotzone is a good example, there are a lot of different dangerzones (RPG, normal walls, partition PB Zone, Tank, that explosive door thingy, PB Dangerzone, could have made those guys with the shield into a "bouncy wall"- like those balls in the circus stage), but the stage just looks bland...

I'm totally agree with the stages. Now we have a lot of more interaction with them. Hot Zone may be the best example, so what's the problem about DOA5 stages? They are very boring looking.

 

[Argentus]

I think a better way to make the distinction is that while doa5 just has Stages, does 2-4 had full Environments.

 

[synce]

lol... I remember when CrystalKasumi started shit w/ my friends and she got dragged for it lmao. She's so dumb and hypocritical. I always see her in the tags bitching about this game yet continues to praise it at the same time. Should Itagaki return to Team Ninja for some reason keep him away from the gameplay, like honestly, the gameplay for DOA5/5+5U/5:LR wtfever is the best in this series and I hope it stays that way. If he wants to work on DOA, have him work on some stages and some new character themes, that's it.

I disagree that the gameplay is better now. What did they really do except shorten DOA4's stun threshold by 1-2 hits and add a comeback mechanic? There's still plenty of guesswork and luck involved and that'll never change as long as the stun/counter system remains. Most of the "improvements" after Itagaki's departure are completely subjective.

- No more anime style or colors
- Matches are longer now
- Every girl has the same costumes
- Constant DLC

Just some of the changes some people might view as positive but they're all negative to me.

 

[Argentus]

I disagree that the gameplay is better now. What did they really do except shorten DOA4's stun threshold by 1-2 hits and add a comeback mechanic? There's still plenty of guesswork and luck involved and that'll never change as long as the stun/counter system remains. Most of the "improvements" after Itagaki's departure are completely subjective.

- No more anime style or colors
- Matches are longer now
- Every girl has the same costumes
- Constant DLC

Just some of the changes some people might view as positive but they're all negative to me.

I hope the stun/counter system stays (DESPISE people saying its "random" or "guessing"), as it makes DOA the only fighter that feels like I'm...well, fighting. Most other games wind up feeling like a turn based game because they boil down to "take turns doing long combos".


Also...the supposed "comeback mechanic" is totally superflous since it doesn't even serve the purpose. You have to set it up due to long start up, which means you were already doing damage without it, and it doesn't do much damage on its own. SO either you are comboing/stunning into it, in which case its not needed anyway, or the opponent is baited to run right into it, but it doesn't do enough damage to warrant doing it over a regular grab or string.


But otherwise, completely agree. They didn't really change much. What, made hold windows smaller? All that does is HELP the person holding because if they whiff they aren't left helpless as long.

Everything else is just miscellaneous frame data tweaks.

 

[Squizzo]

I disagree that the gameplay is better now. What did they really do except shorten DOA4's stun threshold by 1-2 hits and add a comeback mechanic? There's still plenty of guesswork and luck involved and that'll never change as long as the stun/counter system remains. Most of the "improvements" after Itagaki's departure are completely subjective.

- No more anime style or colors
- Matches are longer now
- Every girl has the same costumes
- Constant DLC

Just some of the changes some people might view as positive but they're all negative to me.

Well if you spin it like that of course it seems negative. I would consider it this way.
- Better character models
- Improved stun game
- Critical bursts / power blows / power launchers
- Cliff hangers
- Some characters (Kasumi for example) have vastly improved and expanded movesets
- Wall breaks that allow extended combos
- Some costume customisation options
- Dirt and sweat effects
- Improvements to tag, force outs / tag bursts
- Better AI
- Improved training and tutorials
- Continued support through patches and dlc for 2 years
- More characters and costumes then ever before

And I'm sure there are many more things I missed from that list.