Tomonobu Itagaki On Dead or Alive 5: “My Daughter Was Totally Ruined”

[Matt Ponton]

Please answer this question how many retail copies for the same system do you own for each game ?

I have three copies of DOA3 on Xbox: American, Asia, and European versions.
I have three copies of DOA2 on PS2: Dead or Alive 2: Hardcore, Dead or Alive 2 (Japanese version), Dead or Alive 2: Limited Edition (Japanese Version).
I have three copies of DOA2 on DC: Dead or Alive 2 (American version), Dead or Alive 2 (Japanese Version), and Dead or Alive 2: Limited Edition (Japanese Version)

I still fail to see what this all has to do with Itagaki saying DOA5 ruined his series...
if he had said DOAD, like he already expressed in the same thread that he had issues with, then I'd agree.

 

[JIX9ISLER1986]

If you read my comment further, you'd see that my reaction would be consistent:


You my friend know the point I'm making. Google search red herring fallacy some time btw. It doesn't make your arguments more logical.

''Since he was never involved in either of those games, why would I care what his opinion on them would be?''

you do understand that is biased right ? his opinion of other fighting games don't matter but his opinion of a game he isn't working on he needs to explain all of the sudden ? why should he have to? and even still his comment never stopped me from enjoying vf or tekken… he is entitled to his opinion ….you don't have to agree with him…but you don't need to bash him at the same time for speaking his mind when he's done so in the past regarding other games

I have three copies of DOA3 on Xbox: American, Asia, and European versions.
I have three copies of DOA2 on PS2: Dead or Alive 2: Hardcore, Dead or Alive 2 (Japanese version), Dead or Alive 2: Limited Edition (Japanese Version).
I have three copies of DOA2 on DC: Dead or Alive 2 (American version), Dead or Alive 2 (Japanese Version), and Dead or Alive 2: Limited Edition (Japanese Version)

I still fail to see what this all has to do with Itagaki saying DOA5 ruined his series...
if he had said DOAD, like he already expressed in the same thread that he had issues with, then I'd agree.

Im glad you said that ….non of those multiple versions you chose to purchase you had to buy…these were not commercial retail releases you went out of your way to get them…..doa5 to doa5u to last round are all commercial retail releases for the same platform …two different situations.

im addressing the whole ''they have done multiple versions before'' claim…yes they have done other versions but not for commercial retail release (doa5 to doau to last round) every version replaces the pervious version as a standard …this isn't the case with the previous doa games 1-4. They didn't put you in a position to where you ''had' to upgrade you opted to buy other region specific versions.

 

[Matt Ponton]

these were not commercial retail releases

They were commercial retail releases.

doa5 to doa5u to last round are all commercial retail releases for the same platform …two different situations.

DOA5LR is only a commercial release for the PS4/XBO. You are even given a free patch upgrade from DOA5U to DOA5LR to receive the new balance changes, and you have to buy the two new characters through DLC like you did the other characters for DOA5U.

I see the difference in what you mean by "commercial release", you must mean "Disc release only in the American region". There is no disc release of LR for PS3/360 in the American region, only for the consoles that don't already have a version of DOA5.

Edit: Also, please don't double post, if you are going to double-post, please edit your previous message instead.

 

[JIX9ISLER1986]

They were commercial retail releases.

You're' buying from multiple regions….hardly the same thing …..are you trying to convince me you went to the store and seen doa 3 the american version, the asian version , and the european version ?….where was i because i could have sworn we all purchased the same retail american versions for the original xbox.

''So as you can see, DOA5 is not the first installment in the series to have multiple updates/revisions!
i was addressing this…doa 5 is the first one in the mainline series to release multiple versions of the same game that replaces the previous game across the board…not a random region specific version….outside region games all of the time have features added or taken away …but one would hardly say that is the same thing.

we need to come to a conclusion because its just rabbit trails at this point… Let Itagaki have his opinion because he has earned the right to have it…because if he hasn't …you wouldn't be defining the game that you are playing.

 

[Matt Ponton]

You're' buying from multiple regions….hardly the same thing …..are you trying to convince me you went to the store and seen doa 3 the american version, the asian version , and the european version ?….where was i because i could have sworn we all purchased the same retail american versions for the original xbox.

''So as you can see, DOA5 is not the first installment in the series to have multiple updates/revisions!
i was addressing this…doa 5 is the first one in the mainline series to release multiple versions of the same game that replaces the previous game across the board…not a random region specific version….outside region games all of the time have features added or taken away …but one would hardly say that is the same thing.

Since you may have missed my edits:

DOA5LR is only a commercial release for the PS4/XBO. You are even given a free patch upgrade from DOA5U to DOA5LR to receive the new balance changes, and you have to buy the two new characters through DLC like you did the other characters for DOA5U.

I see the difference in what you mean by "commercial release", you must mean "Disc release only in the American region". There is no disc release of LR for PS3/360 in the American region, only for the consoles that don't already have a version of DOA5.

Edit: Also, please don't double post, if you are going to double-post, please edit your previous message instead.

 

[Leifang]

I feel Itagaki and TeamNinja should both work together. I just want Itagaki to do the stages, animation, intro beginning, CGI endings, make the background and the characters animation, with clothes and hair etc. Other than that, that's it. The rest TeamNinja can do the gameplay and characters models and costume design etc.

 

[just_me]

his opinion of other fighting games don't matter but his opinion of a game he isn't working on he needs to explain all of the sudden ? why should he have to?

Because that's usually what you do when you voice a strong opinion... give an explanation so people can actually discuss the matter. And you seriously ask why @David Gregg values Itagaki's opinion on the DoA series more than his opinion on pseudo random other games? He's the damn creator of the series and if he think's his creation is ruined, you'd think he has some good arguments... a little more than "you don't do Combos with a touchpad"

but you don't need to bash him at the same time for speaking his mind when he's done so in the past regarding other games

Well why not actually? If he is "entitled to his opinion" and can bash games without giving any real reason, why can't "we" bash his opinion without giving any reason (reasons were given though... hard to tell if they actually address his issues with the game, since he failed to properly name them)

And really... releasing multiple version of the same game on the same hardware may not be the standard, but it's not that uncommon either, especially for fighting games... the SF series does this since 20+ years and most Arcade Games do the same... at least in the Arcades, only consoles players were left out for the most part and are stuck with the version they got, I fail to see why this is a good thing tho.
I mean VF players started petitions to get a paid release of the updated Arcade version and actually got VF5FS. SC players would have gladly bought "SCIII: Arcade Edition", SCIV: Broken Destiny for home consoles. I'm pretty sure they'd be happy, if Namco threw them a bone and at least give them SCV "something".
Yes those updates cater to the hardcore players of the franchise... but what's wrong with that?

You may also argue that the annual sport game update falls in that category, since - as far as I can tell - there are usually only some system, engine tweaks and team updates and only every couple of years warrants a totally new version, due to an engine switch and a major gameplay overhaul.
And last but not least Itagaki did the update thing with Ninja Gaiden to Ninja Gaiden: Black and that was a good thing, the best thing that happened to the series actually.

 

[Kronin]

''Since he was never involved in either of those games, why would I care what his opinion on them would be?''

you do understand that is biased right ? his opinion of other fighting games don't matter but his opinion of a game he isn't working on he needs to explain all of the sudden ? why should he have to? and even still his comment never stopped me from enjoying vf or tekken… he is entitled to his opinion ….you don't have to agree with him…but you don't need to bash him at the same time for speaking his mind when he's done so in the past regarding other games

Like other users already said, he is bashing DoA5 for reasons not explained and without adding credibility to his statements. Exactly for what reason he believes that the series was ruined? He didn't explain neither the main point of his statement, on what basis I should consider this a true critique and not more something starting from biased thoughts for personal reasons? (however I know that this was just a Facebook comment, but I got the same feelings even in other more long answers from him on the same argument). And yes, for me this is always been true even for his past statements on the Tekken series if this is what you want hear, there is no difference and I never got seriously in consideration what he said about those games: when you say that your top 5 hated games are Tekken 1-5 honestly it's hard to do it.

He can say everything he wishes because surely he has the right to do it as everyone, at the same time this consequently will produce a reaction in the mind of who hear his words. And of course you have the chance to make agree the audience with you in the same measure about how you are credible in what you are saying adding evidences for demonstrating your thesis: I don't see what is the problem in all this process.

By the way maybe my opinion is different from your one, but knowing the Western competitive community I don't find any surprise in what happened: there was no need for Itagaki to explicitely express his opinion for realizing a disapproval of the majority of this side of the fanbase, because the majority of the competitive one dislike DoA4 since the release of the game or at least has always considered it the worst title of the series. Of course it can't agree with Itagaki when since the release of DoA5 was able to find explicit improvements in the parts where DoA4 appeared weak.

If the two alternatives are to get more remakes of the same game with an appealing gameplay or one single but unsatisfying version, I believe that there is no doubt on what option can be preffered from the players of the series;

PS: And all this without counting that we are passed to three versions of DoA5 after the gap of 7 years of nothingness before DOAD where the series could realistically to be dead forever; so I think that the old DoA fans can't dislike so much the last title's remakes of a series that got a such fate: better an excess - premised that I think that the remakes of DoA5 are on par with the fates of DoA1 and DoA2 - than nothing.

 

[Hayabusiness]

I will try to add my two cents to the discussion:
I'm not angry at Itagaki, mostly because I'm used to gamedevs being a-holes towards other titles (didn't Hayashi also bash Bayonetta, saying it's old?? When NG3 was hated by NG fans?? Hahahaha), and I would've figured out he hates DOA5, even if it might be just to give an image to himself (he really cares about his image, I knew him and his attitude BEFORE getting into this series because of his image).

I'm not sure what the reason for his hate could be. I'm disappointed he didn't go into detail about the game in his posts because it really piques my curiosity.

I guess he mostly doesn't like the change of "spirit" (IDK how to explain this but DOA5 has less awesome 'tude in general), or the absence of high-risk, luck based, enormous stages (or maybe the absence of Aerosmith ).
I'm not even sure if he PLAYED DOA5... I lean more onto "He did.", even by just throwing cents on DOA5rcade.

Seriously, at the moment, I have no reason to call bs on his words on this because he just said "lol ruined 5ever" without explaining why. He is just being a typical gamedev with 'tude. Ask your mom and all that.

... but that's for when we talk about the gameplay and aesthethic side.

If we talk about the fanservice, yes, DOA5 exaggerated it, but he is being a hypocrit. He dig the series' own grave with DOAX2' gravures (which make some girls act so stupidly and out of character...), pole-dancing, camera zooming, absurd bouncing, and now he is calling whoever is directing the fanservice in 5 a low-brow porn director?? Then what is he, a fine erotica director??
AFAIK, everyone could wear Artemis back in his days, and that's something on DOA5's fanservice level...

 

[Malesoun]

Oh, yeah... Totally ruined. Thousand of players playing the game not only in Xbox, but in Playstation as well.
Playing it too in Vita, and coming for new gen consoles.
Your daughter doesn't need you, Itagaki.

Not to forget the fact that the game is in the Japanese Arcades, when was the last time that happened for this franchise?

You make a valid point, Itakagi held the franchise back by limiting it to one platform for so many years, one that wasn't even popular in his homeland.

The fact that the guy has some cult following and that's nice and all that, but you got to question why? Why is he considered that great that DoA grew and got more mainstream praise than with DoA5 than it ever did with him at the helm. I suppose the use of "cult" could explain a lot.

My own personal experience is that DoA5 is more fun and accessible than it ever was, and that's a good thing, we want to get more people involved!

As for him influencing DoA, he burned his bridges a long time ago, there is no going back on that and DoA is in a safe pair of hands in the meantime. To call it "his" daughter totally discredits the hard work of everyone else that has worked on the franchise and made their own personal mark.

Here's a Photobucket link to the conversation that he had. You'll need to hover your mouse over the image and a zoom button will appear at the top right. Also, warning: Casuals, casuals everywhere!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y49/Ratiz/originalconvo.jpg~original

I'm pretty sure that the O/P in that thread goes by the handle of Crystal Kasumi, and is a well known Kasumi (bet you didn't see that coming...) cosplayer. If it is who I think it is, then she has been outed a couple of times for being a complete and utter hypocrite, she will quite happily accept all the DoA(5) freebies she can get from KTE, sayind such wonderful and positive things about it in English whilst at the same time bitching and moaning about the franchise in German, thinking that it some how shields her from reproach.

She is also, probably, the numer uno Itakagi superfan and Itakagi often engages with her.

Who freaking cares about who is competitve and who is casual?

Agreed!

If anyone wants to put a judge the respective groups importance I'd have to say that Casuals were more important. Why? Because you can be damn sure that for every competitive player there is there's probably 50 casuals, the sales from 50 casuals total 50 times that one competitive player.

And of course, every competitive player starts off as a "Casual" to begin with.

 

[Hayabusiness]

Agreed!

If anyone wants to put a judge the respective groups importance I'd have to say that Casuals were more important. Why? Because you can be damn sure that for every competitive player there is there's probably 50 casuals, the sales from 50 casuals total 50 times that one competitive player.

And of course, every competitive player starts off as a "Casual" to begin with.

But it's the Competitives who keep the scene and the games really alive...
I'm against insulting Casuals and treating them like crap (especially if they still play the game over years and are in love with the series, the gameplay, the characters, etc), but at the same time treating badly Competitives is not good either. They are the ones who can enjoy the game's mechanics the best and should never be excluded. They'll be playing the most and they'll be the ones who will buy the sequels.

Also, a better game for Competitives is also a better game for Casuals.

An example of this is Smash Bros: I'm a complete Smash Casual player.
Yet I feel Melee is better than Brawl because it's still more fair and can be enjoyed in many more ways. Brawl didn't want to cater to Competitive players, and that was a big mistake: the game is a luck fest with extreme sides in the Tier list, and all the battles end up feeling the same.
And let's not talk about the gravity.........

Back on not Smash examples: sometimes games can get too technical, and Casuals are going to feel alienated, but a middle road like DOA5 is the best. You need a game that can cater to both sides to truly have a good game, in my opinion. Not a single thing should be overlooked, because both ahesthethics and gameplay matter in the end.

 

[Ayane89]

this here with itagaki began only because of crystalkasumi(Katrin Dopfer) .. she cries since doa5 came out.. and she will never stop. at every news she begins to hate http://crystalkasumi.tumblr.com/post/104589340488/now-everyone-should-know-that-i-represent-my like this with the new Ninja costumes.

.. she talked too itagaki and then it began...
and now he think the most people cry..

i respect him because he created a really good game..

but my opinion is.. i have more fun with DOA5 and the chars looks better.

 

[Hayabusiness]

this here with itagaki began only because of crystalkasumi(Katrin Dopfer) .. she cries since doa5 came out.. and she will never stop. at every news she begins to hate http://crystalkasumi.tumblr.com/post/104589340488/now-everyone-should-know-that-i-represent-my like this with the new Ninja costumes.

.. she talked too itagaki and then it began...
and now he think the most people cry..

i respect him because he created a really good game..

but my opinion is.. i have more fun with DOA5 and the chars looks better.

Well, from facebook (and YouTube) we can see it's not just her who dislikes DOA's new direction.

Still, it's very interesting how she spotted the copypasted material in the ninja outfits... and I thought we might've got a bit more original content this time around...

PS: not that Ryu's wasn't sad before...

 

[Ayane89]

and the other people called the DOA5 fans brainless too? because she did it.
she is never happy with the new costumes. they are slutty for her or they are copypasted lol

yea sure its not only her but this with itagaki started with her.

 

[Chapstick]

She follows two of my tumblr blogs lol

I wasn't aware until recently how infamous she is in the community for the things she's said and done.

 

[Ayane89]

She follows two of my tumblr blogs lol

I wasn't aware until recently how infamous she is in the community for the things she's said and done.

i blocked her on Tumblr.. she said she hate the costumes in DOA5 because they are so slutty.. but she still rebloggin my DOA5 pics with the sexy costumes.. wth



--

sorry!! XD now back to topic! lalala

 

[Project Bokuho]

lol

 

[Aven Kujo-Gin]

There's only one thing I have to say cuz I don't want to discuss: I REALLY wish he return to work in DOA franchise.

 

[Hayabusiness]

There's only one thing I have to say cuz I don't want to discuss: I REALLY wish he return to work in DOA franchise.

Care to broaden your point? I don't hate your opinion, I just want to know why you think that.

My opinion on this is... if he were back, we'd have more polish and more fun stages like House, but I'm afraid he'd hate how the gameplay is more competitive and less random, so we'd have to say byebye to that part!

 

[Kronin]

and then? he leave team ninja again because of money .. and then we have to wait again over 7 years for a DOA?

By the way has to be said that Itagaki wasn't requesting more money than the planned one, but just asking for what he deserved and wasn't given to him.