DOA5U Tina's nerfs, buffs and QA in DOA5U

[Koompbala]

Snip

I see now I'm glad you never left. Shit it must of been terrible to pretend to like 4. It was easy for me to play 4 cause that was my first competitive fighter. Learning from you, Sorwah, and Silent Legend. There are more players, but the 3 of you I remember the most from DoAC. As time went on I finally saw what was wrong with 4.1. Once SCIV came out I was done with 4 but yeah because I learned 4 I was able to learn other fighters. I probably will stick around too though because of the fact DoA was my first comptetive fighter. Anyway that is pretty good 3.1 getting comments like is that VF. I never even knew about that. I only played 3.0 and played it by myself cause my friends thought DoA is mashy. The typical comments all of us hear everywhere.

You actually convinced me otherwise about Tina. I think what my problem with her changes is. I never got to enjoy her in vanilla literally. Back when she had one of the best vortexes. When vanilla came out I was either without internet or working. So I rarely got to use her on different opponents. What you say is true about throws and the triangle system. It all makes sense now I actually got to experience that personally in a ranked match. It was funny to watch cause right from the start you could tell I had the match. This person I played you could tell the person had the basics down. But he/she just refused to hold the person must've played against Tina or plays Tina. It got to the point where I got so many combos off he/she started holding. So what ended the match was actually a Hi Counter J.O.C. Got the person in a feint stun and that was that. What the person was trying to prevent the whole match ended up getting finished off by a throw.

For the record I never saw her as weak. I know its online but I went on a nice little win streak in ranked of 40 wins. I do use her throws and now find ways to use her roll now too. People try to low grab her 2P+K,K lol. Its pretty great but you hit enough people with that shit you will get some of them holding and thats when the J.O.C's start coming. Some try to step and still get a J.O.C. I always knew her throws have value. Now I know just how much value they have thanks to you still teaching me things. Its settled I'll do another Tina guide for arcade if I got the time.

 

[Koompbala]

Double post but eh whatever I don't do it often. Anyway a buff I want and I wanted this ever since vanilla. Now that her BT stance can be used in juggles more often. I want her to be the first with a BT air throw. It doesn't have to be anything whacky or flashy. Just make it so she can do a couple BT 7K's into a neckbreaker or something.

 

[virtuaPAI]

SNIP

-Thank you so very much for those compliments. I appreciate them so much. I did all the work for you guys. I worked hard to build a competitive, knowledgeable tourney playing community, and I am so happy to have all you guys here. If you see I very seldom post a faq or guide now a days....I no longer have to, cause all of you guys are taking off where I left off, and doing a very good damn job of it as well. As for Tina, now you see what I am talking about. I am so happy throws are inescapable for the most part in DOA, and I hope it never changes. Grapplers are not underserved in this game. They have the most powerful throws, the most variety of throws, the fastest throws etc. I know many are upset with DOA5U changes, but it made a better(more balanced-functional) game for it. Those changes gave the game more depth due to character individuality. Characters are now more focused on an individual segment of the triangle system. Tina for Ex is now finely tuned to throws as her weapon of Choice,another ex. LeiFang is now finely tuned to Defensive holds(sabakis,parries..etc) being her weapon of choice and a character like Kasumi is finely tuned to Striking and attacks.

-This makes DOA5U a far better game than that of Vanilla. Ex. Everyone doing forced techs denied players from exploring each characters' unique ground game options, limited match up possibilities while lowering the overall depth of the game. Look at Tina, She gets good frame advantage off her set-up throws...this would be compared to a striker who get good frame advantage off of pokes and strikes. Grapplers have the advantage in having throws that do as much damage as most strikers combos/juggles. Even than, grapplers have a myraid of Combo throws that are inescapable when just frames!!! A striker must land a strike on hit at all times to do damage, otherwise it loses out to everything else. A Grappler can land a throw on Neutral, Blocking, Holding, free stepping, side stepping, dashing and all other movement....and throws are faster than attacks at that! Players who use grapplers need to stop fearing attacks, and make their opponent fear THROWS!!!

Double post but eh whatever I don't do it often. Anyway a buff I want and I wanted this ever since vanilla. Now that her BT stance can be used in juggles more often. I want her to be the first with a BT air throw. It doesn't have to be anything whacky or flashy. Just make it so she can do a couple BT 7K's into a neckbreaker or something.

-Cant complain about that lol!

 

[Doa_Eater]

Well the buffs are pretty decent, cant complain.

 

[Yaguar]

Closed the chat window to nana so this is what I told him from memory...
She's getting a buff (damage and safety).

and are now -5 on guard.
from -8 to -5 (on normal hit).
- Hitbox or priority change (memory fails me).
and - Hitbox changes.
- old 19/4/* new 18/5/*. Now also close hits.
- 35 to 42 Damage.
- When used on ropes 45 to 48 Damage.
- 38 to 42 Damage.
BT - 48 to 68 Damage. THIS MAY ONLY BE VS. BT OPPONENT!

 

[Doa_Eater]

I'm interested what hitbox change means, probably less stun threshold on hit.

 

[Koompbala]

^ Im hoping the hitbox being changed to 236K means it cant be ducked anymore and will hit better. Same with 4K its missed off of some stupid shit and shouldve hit. There I just copy and pasted the list now its here.

• 4K, 6PK: Guard advantage changed from -6 to -5.
• 2k: Normal hit advantage changed from -8 to -5.
• 236K, Running K: Hitbox adjusted.
• 4K, 6PK: Hitbox adjusted.
• 236P: Start-up reduced from 19 to 18F, active frames increased from 4 to 6. Close Hit properties added.
• 4P+K, Back P+K: Damage increased from 35 to 42: Rope 4P+K: Damage increased from 45 to 48.
• 66T: Damage increased from 38 to 42.
• Back T on rear-facing opponent: Damage increased from 48 to 68.

 

[PacManila]

Same with 4K its missed off of some stupid shit and shouldve hit.

I'm hoping that's what the change ends up doing. There have been so many times when I used 4K to crush lows, only to completely whiff the attacker and put me at BT to get hit for my efforts. It was so annoying, even standing lows could make 4K magically whiff at times.

From the looks of it, Tina hasn't really changed much. I just wonder if there may be more changes coming before the patch is officially released onto consoles. In other fighting games (ex. Blazblue), whenever changes are announced and location tests are conducted, more changes end up being adjusted or added to the changelog.

 

[Koompbala]

I'm hoping that's what the change ends up doing. There have been so many times when I used 4K to crush lows, only to completely whiff the attacker and put me at BT to get hit for my efforts. It was so annoying, even standing lows could make 4K magically whiff at times.

Exactly

From the looks of it, Tina hasn't really changed much. I just wonder if there may be more changes coming before the patch is officially released onto consoles. In other fighting games (ex. Blazblue), whenever changes are announced and location tests are conducted, more changes end up being adjusted or added to the changelog.

That was going through my head too. The changes weren't much but I'd say there's enough changes that she got buffed. Now that 236P close hits I wonder what that means for combo possibilities. Maybe she can reach higher damage with it.

 

[PacManila]

That was going through my head too. The changes weren't much but I'd say there's enough changes that she got buffed. Now that 236P close hits I wonder what that means for combo possibilities. Maybe she can reach higher damage with it.

After looking through all the changes, there seemed to be a lot of minor frame changes. Changes like Jann's 6P from 12f to 11f is pretty big, but others like some of Lei's strings being -7f on block instead of -8 seems negligible. I kinda feel that there are more changes on the way and that these are going to be observed during tests to see how much they affect the characters and the game itself.

Didn't think about 236P and it's potential in combos with this change. I used to mess around with it in lab while looking for setups that would let me FT people who decide to not get up. It had some potential but the damage sacrifice made it not-so-worth-it. I was thinking that with the activation frames changing from 4 to 6, it could be used to crush wake-up kicks.

 

[Koompbala]

Didn't think about 236P and it's potential in combos with this change. I used to mess around with it in lab while looking for setups that would let me FT people who decide to not get up. It had some potential but the damage sacrifice made it not-so-worth-it. I was thinking that with the activation frames changing from 4 to 6, it could be used to crush wake-up kicks.

Yeah it might be more viable now to crush wake up kicks. Actually it got potential to be a really good option now. If you think about it if you do it too early then you will just jump over the opponent. If the timing is slightly off then you will get hit in the air. You just have to worry about the opponent getting up and blocking and if you get hit a frame before the move activates or else you'll get hi counter blown. Other than those two things its looking really good for this move to punish wake up kicks. I wonder if its possible to get a close hit on wake up kicks too on top of the CH.

 

[Doa_Eater]

They could have done something also with 8k , the only useless move now.

 

[Koompbala]

They could have done something also with 8k , the only useless move now.

Meh I'd still rather use 8K over 236K. Even though it seems that 236K just may be able to hit more often now. Still won't change the fact that its slow and its not a crush even though majority of the time shes in the air. I have a feeling she will still get 2P'ed out of it. Next if they buff this move again not even considering a speed buff. But if they buff it again and actually make this move a crush like its supposed to be. Then yeah I would say this move is useful

 

[Doa_Eater]

Meh I'd still rather use 8K over 236K.

The guard break is the only think 8k has over it, plus 6 i think,still bad knockback and recovery compared to minus ten on 236p(for reasons unknown).

 

[Koompbala]

Yeah seriously wtf is up with that bass gets 0 on block and she gets -10. They need to buff 236K and 236P now all im asking for is for shit to make sense. Its makes no sense that a low beats 236K but also makes no sense that 236P is -10.

 

[Doa_Eater]

Yeah seriously wtf is up with that bass gets 0 on block and she gets -10. They need to buff 236K and 236P now all im asking for is for shit to make sense. Its makes no sense that a low beats 236K but also makes no sense that 236P is -10.

Exactly, they are really random with the numbers and they just dont make any sense. So Tina has a moonsault that done back turned is +4 on guard break, but Lisa has the same moonsault done the same command it is +17, not to mention other guard breaks all on plus. A same situation would be Bayman's parry with Lei-Fangs sabaki, why does the slower character get +3 and the faster goes to +17. These are random numbers so huge in difference, no game pulls stuff like this.

 

[PacManila]

I was hoping they would make some adjustments to her bounds too, which I feel are awful.

8P only bounds if it was executed a) twice in a row, or b) at max threshold. The former is easily SE'd, while the latter is, in my opinion, a terrible alternative option because you can just choose to CB them (which is also mid P and has about the same start-up) and get much more damage than what an 8P bound could ever give you.

Her other bound, a fully charged P from 4PPP, is impractical. I don't think I have ever seen anyone hit a fully charged P successfully in a match (other than on block). The charge time makes it too obvious what's coming, not to mention the bound sends the opponent too far for you to really follow-up with anything.

 

[Koompbala]

Yeah her bounds are so terrible its funny I think I actually got her 4PP(P) fully charged once before but then I was like oh wait yeah thats right im supposed to do something after that.

 

[Doa_Eater]

I was hoping they would make some adjustments to her bounds too, which I feel are awful.


Her other bound, a fully charged P from 4PPP, is impractical. I don't think I have ever seen anyone hit a fully charged P successfully in a match (other than on block). The charge time makes it too obvious what's coming, not to mention the bound sends the opponent too far for you to really follow-up with anything.

If i would suggest something about that is to make it bound on the normal hit because charge moves as are in DOA are pretty stupid, by 3d fighting games rules all charge moves should be cancelable in games (oh wait, they are in the other ones). In Doa they are just useless.

 

[TRI Mike]

I'm still extremely pissed off about PKK not guaranteeing the ground slam, I'm also still pissed off about that ground slam being unsafe and not a GB and I'm ALSO still very pissed the fuck off about 8P and 66K sucking.

If they revert those things to vanilla status I swear to all deities made up by human civilization I'll never use another character again.