DOA5U Tina's nerfs, buffs and QA in DOA5U
- Thread starter TRI Mike
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PacManila
Active Member
I need help here. When kp creates limbo stun after do you have to scoot up a bit to use the CB? I usually do kp 8p 6p+k but sometimes when it limbo stuns the 6p+k whiffs
I usually just go for the 9K launch after limbo or if I'm not at threshold yet, 3K to give me the BT stun, then launch. The setups she had for CB in vanilla are gone sadly, so I try not to rely on 8P to CB set-ups. In the lab, it doesn't seem like they can SE after 3K hits them in the back. Online, it looked like it could be held, but that could be just lag.
Either way, a launch on a BT opponent usually gives you good launch height, so you can go for whatever post-launch CB combo you want to do.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
Forget all her combos that involved a BT opponent say goodbye to all the beefy setups like after a launch getting 6PP6K 426T on someone as heavy as Fu on flat ground. Not a damn thing works, but doing a 9K right away. Everything is holdable that is not lag. 3K's dont do dick neither does 66PP. Which those P's would be what you would use to get more dmg off limbo if you were near a wall. Her 8P CB is +20 on fastest SE her CB is 19i you need 2+ frames for attacks. Another reason why that setup misses is SE'ing when the opponent SE's the person backs away as they are SE'ing instead of SE'ing in place.
RubinRoon
Member
I need help here. When kp creates limbo stun after do you have to scoot up a bit to use the CB? I usually do kp 8p 6p+k but sometimes when it limbo stuns the 6p+k whiffs
just launch with 9k or 33p. Easy 100 dmg on counterhit.
I just realized that pkp doesnt combo even on counterhit. The p followup can be blocked.
Just Kp on the other hand does combo, only on counterhit though.
Is this common knowledge and Im just very slow?
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
Shame on you Rubin I pointed this out in my vanilla guide. You liked it so I know you seen my guide. I never flat out said it but I pointed it out in the move title under attack breakdown like so.
17. {PKP} SCS [KP] SE'ble (-8):
again SCS is a stun combo string and its SE'able Stagger or slow escapable whichever way you say it. It should be common knowledge to whoever read my guide. Also to whoever else just experiments with her.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
Its cool I was being sarcastic anyway. I feel if you put sarcasm after a post it kills it. I made the guide for myself just decided to also put it here too. I mention how I made it for myself already. I don't expect anyone to read it too. I actually wanna make a new guide for the arcade version coming out. That guide though is gonna be really small. Not much to say about this Tina.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
As far as I can remember PP is the only NC. But yet PP is the universal NC on NH. PK may still be a NCC love that attack throw.
-As a grappler I wouldn't expect too many natural combos from her. But,being a grappler she gets a pleathora of high damaging combo throws/holds that cannot be escaped with perfect execution. So that means a 3 part combo throw can do more damage than the majority of the cast can do with a juggling combo.
-Yes she has been slightly nerfed(changed) since vanilla, however, her strengths have never changed. She is a grappler 1st, effiecient striker 2nd. She was never meant to to work off sit down stuns or the like. Listen guys, players are going to block, cause it allow them to gain advantage. Tina being a striking grappler takes full advantage of this. She is one of the very few characters who can get away with stuff like and it's variants. She is a character that wants you to hold and block....fuck even side step. Any defensive measure you do beside counter attack gives Tina priority. Your opponent must attack! Anything else Tina is guaranteed a throw. Anyone of higher level rarely attack right after being in negative, knowing their attacks will be snuffed out by your own...this is the perfect opportunity for a Tina player to take advantage.
-Listen, there is all this moping and crying, but look...Attacks is only one freaking aspect of the game. Your opponent is either neutral, blocking, holding, side stepping. Hello guys, all of that shit is vulnerable to Tina' s throws....which for the most part do more damage than most strikers juggles. Tina is very much a reactive character. Your oppnent block, hold, side step....you throw. If your opponent attack, you counter attack juggle for good damage. A Tina player must be swift and make quick decisions.
-Yes she has been slightly nerfed(changed) since vanilla, however, her strengths have never changed. She is a grappler 1st, effiecient striker 2nd. She was never meant to to work off sit down stuns or the like. Listen guys, players are going to block, cause it allow them to gain advantage. Tina being a striking grappler takes full advantage of this. She is one of the very few characters who can get away with stuff like
and it's variants. She is a character that wants you to hold and block....fuck even side step. Any defensive measure you do beside counter attack gives Tina priority. Your opponent must attack! Anything else Tina is guaranteed a throw. Anyone of higher level rarely attack right after being in negative, knowing their attacks will be snuffed out by your own...this is the perfect opportunity for a Tina player to take advantage.-Listen, there is all this moping and crying, but look...Attacks is only one freaking aspect of the game. Your opponent is either neutral, blocking, holding, side stepping. Hello guys, all of that shit is vulnerable to Tina' s throws....which for the most part do more damage than most strikers juggles. Tina is very much a reactive character. Your oppnent block, hold, side step....you throw. If your opponent attack, you counter attack juggle for good damage. A Tina player must be swift and make quick decisions.
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
I would ask you why are you so damn positive about 5U. But then that would pointless cause you stuck around for the shittiest DoA. DoA 4 actually not even 4 that was okay as a game. I mean 4.1 that was garbage. You and others broke down the game despite the quality of it. So really I dont expect you to be on the same page as everyone else here. My view on all of this is when 5 came out. I was like this is game is cool. Its not the best but its a step in the right direction.
5U comes out now its like yeah you know force techs, untechables, and guaranteed setups? Forget all that nonsense you dont need any of that. We're gonna make DoA barebones again and let everyone have fun mashing. Force techs we'll get rid of that. Untechables we'll get rid of a shitload of untechables. Guaranteed setups we will just take away a lot of those. Oh but hey its alright there's bounds now and PL's oooooh. With PL's instead of getting guaranteed damage from PB's now theres a chance your opponent might screw up the combo. Big whoop they took so much out of this game it doesnt even feel like 5 anymore. It feels like I gone back in time 4U now exists and I started playing 4U but with stepping. One thing that separates DoA is holds but yet at the same time its one of the biggest problems with the game. What vanilla did for me is it had all the features I previously mentioned in it and made holds less of an issue without actually getting rid of them.
Now in 5U they universally nerf the roster by getting rid of in depth game mechanics and thats a good idea? Im supposed to be content with these changes? In vanilla I felt luck hardly played a role. Now that 5U is barebones I feel luck has come back. I said it before but 5U Tina I feel you could only really play one way with her. But in vanilla you could choose to play as 5U Tina or other ways. Also for the record I know your post is directed towards everyone. This new Tina I already adapted to the changes I got no problems with her. Beating others that is I still don't like what happened to her though.
TRI Mike
Well-Known Member
I can understand what virtuapai is saying, Tina can still win and in general, her damage is sky high (more for me since I mostly play in 240). But the strategy he's saying is just a general fighter strategy used by grapplers in games from Street Fighter to Tekken. Blocking and stepping are vulnerable to throws. The thing is that that strategy doesn't motivate me to play Tina as I did in vanilla, everyone can do that and in DOA5U, everyone has strong throws, even lolis like Kasumi and Hitomi.
I strongly feel she needs the unholdables and untechables back. Not everyone is gonna step and block Tina, she's slow when compared to the most popular characters (ninjas, christie, hitomi, etc) and as of 5U, beating Tina is just a matter of pressing the P and K buttons as fast as you can. Right now there's no solid way of starting a striking offensive. It's sad times for the busty chick.
I strongly feel she needs the unholdables and untechables back. Not everyone is gonna step and block Tina, she's slow when compared to the most popular characters (ninjas, christie, hitomi, etc) and as of 5U, beating Tina is just a matter of pressing the P and K buttons as fast as you can. Right now there's no solid way of starting a striking offensive. It's sad times for the busty chick.
-1)Excuse You! You have some damn nerve. DOA5 wouldn't be far superior to that of DOA4 if it wasn't for Mr.Wah, Rikuto and Myself advocating for many of the changes that is in the game(and specifically stated that DOA4 was trash, and was not DOA). 2) I broke down every single DOA up to DOA5. So breaking down DOA4 would not have been an exception. 3)Being on the same page as everyone else, how laughable. Please do not try to discredit me as some nobody. You and everyone else in the community would not even be talking about the technical detail of this game if it wasn't for me. I was the one that proved that the DOA series as a whole was a deep competitive fighter. Majority of the core strats, techniques, set-ups and lingo were all from me. Also, It was also Mr. Wah, myself and a few others who put their necks out to build this competitive scene. The very one you are currently in.
-Why I am so Damn Positive. I have been positive about the series when no one gave a damn about it. When people like you who said I was wrong, crazy and delusional, said DOA was a shallow button mashing fighter. So I am quite happy to not to be on the same page as everyone else, and see things as anything other than what I see them.
-You are taking it to the far extreme. DOA5U is far from being barebones. The removal of force techs do not break the game. You are acting as if the characters in the game are left without any type of ground game strategies. I am glad forced techs are gone. It was not something all characters should have. Such a technique took away Bass's character specific ground game. Characters are well capable of utilizing other character specific techniques to employ in their ground game(which still provide plenty of strategic depth). Many of the untechables were replaced by Flops, blast blacks, heavy bound which all give guaranteed damage.
-The game altering thing that was removed from the game was Forced Techs. DOA1, DOA2 and DOA3 did not suffer depth nor strategic wise for the lack of a forced tech system.
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Koompbala
Well-Known Member
I honestly dont even know what I said for that to be taken as arrogance. Its far from it since I respect you and Sorwah I been behind the scenes learning from you two for a while. I first became a member to DoAC around 07??? I think. As I was typing that message that was more of me thinking out loud and answering my own question. I guess Ill go into more detail about my message even though I dont know where the flaw lies in it. Pretty much everyone agrees 4 was the worst. Again 4.0 was okay it was 4.1. When others decided to abandon the game. Your love of the series kept you around for the worst time of DoA. The lack of audience didnt stop you from pursuing DoA. So really right there I answered my own question. I knew the answer from the get go. I didnt elaborate on the others who broke down the game with you because I know who those people are and you know too. It is due to those reasons why your still around to this day. I dont know why I asked that cause if you stuck around for 4 of course your gonna stick around for 5. Especially when 5 is better product. Even though I dont like the direction of where 5 is going I find myself still playing it. You remember that small petition that Ladra made on DoAC to put 4 back to 4.0. Yeah I was one of the people in support of it. So I never actually left 4 either. I stuck around too and wanted to continue to play it. It was through your knowledge and Sorwah's I played 4.0. I deleted the patch and would play 4.0 here & there. You remember Kokoro's 6KP? I know you do cause you were the one that posted that string was a 2 in 1 against the wall. I remember I went to a tourney and they had 4.0 in casuals. I was getting people with Bass' 8i OH and they were like WTF is that!? I explained to them what it is and all I could think about is thanks sorwah. Good Times
Also true story here you taught me frame data without actually talking to me. No one in 4 would give this scrub the time of day to teach me frame data. So I learned it from you in your thread on DoAC about frame data. It was a wall of text but what I did is I read a paragraph a day. Then I would take a day to absorb the knowledge. Then the next day read another one. Til eventually I could read the whole thing in one sitting without getting overwhelmed. It was because of you Im not a mashy scrub anymore. Its because of you I was able to teach others frame data. Honestly I owe my progress to you really. Its because of you I was able to make such a beefy tina guide for vanilla. Knowing frames made me thirst for more knowledge. With that I'll close this with.
#buffTina
PacManila
Active Member
Is it just me, or are there not very many opportunities for Tina to force tech someone who just wants to stay on the ground? I feel like most of the time, I can't do much to a grounded opponent besides maybe a ground throw. My attacks mostly whiff when they're on the ground. I feel like my opponent gets a "free reset" for just laying there :/
AkaShocka
Well-Known Member
Yea, I understand. I always go for the ground throw because her FTs work fine but the seem as they put her in negative. She has many moves that work as FTs like 1k, 2h+k, 66p+k etc. are not dependent at all. Only FTs that seem decent are 8p, and p+k. But then again those come out pretty slow, not extremely slow but just not fast enough. I wish she still had the 6h+k 1p 6h+k FT.
PacManila
Active Member
She has 2 pseudo FTs, but one is a whiff punish (6H+K>[3]P), and the other is from BT (BT H+K or 44PK>8P). The former can be teched if you get up at the right time, which is strict. Doing a launch early in stun would get you ok damage, but momentum feels like it gets reset (unless they tech themselves) :/
Koompbala
Well-Known Member
Yeah ground throw is the fastest thing she can do. Therefore that pretty leaves her with a ground throw being the only usable option. Do I like that hell no its cool on the occasion i get more dmg but yeah I miss Tina.
-It came off as arrogance because you included yourself in a group of our piers as knowing, or being in the know of something that I was not. Insult to Injury was the use of DOA4(the shittiest fighter as you state) as a reasoning for my lack of understanding. We all knew DOA4(in particular 4.1) was garbage. Sorwah and myself knew this from the very beginning!!! We tried our best to find something solid, and found nothing. I just found more broken defensive tactics...aka Struggle~Fuzzy Guard~ Attack/throw...which HLP players like Black Mamba utilized. If you must know the reasoning for me staying
- The Community was already set with staying with 4.1, and not reverting back to 4.0 or 3.1.
- DOA4 was getting major exposure from the likes of EVO and WCG. We had to save face, suck it up and play the hell up of DOA4.
- If we said fuck it, Any and all the hard work we have put in before DOA4's exposure would have been all for naught.
-I do see where you are coming from, and I am honored that you learned so much from my work. I am not going to lie, I was hurt by the initial comment. I am not going to tell anyone lies up here just because I like the character and therefore I am blinded. Many of you need to realize that I was playing a 3.1 Tina who is not that much different than this one. A Tina who had to face many of the same challenges that this Tina has to face. Characters being faster than her is not new. Characters with better, more damaging juggles/combos than her is not new. Characters having more frame advantage on hit than her is not new. Tina is first and foremost a Grapple(r). The Most powerful part of the Triangle system are throws. Nothing in this game outright beat throws except attacks(Grappler throws do massive damage and cannot be escaped). Stop seeing this as a weakness in her game, but as a total strength. Everything in this game is played around not being thrown.