The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread
- Thread starter Matt Ponton
- Start date
But Awesmic is fully capable of properly discussing matchups involving Christie, though.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
so how is the list looking? Zack go up because of the FR16 play of JR?
Based on the current matchup scores, this is the current list:
The list is far from done though, as we still have many more matchups to discuss. This is the current selection of matchups:
Zack x Helena 5-5
Pai x Bass 5-5
Rig x Gen Fu 4-6
Tina x Kokoro 5-5
Brad x Bayman 6-4
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Well I can tell you Zack vs. Helena is 6-4 for her way because of her ground game and just basically overwhelm him. It seems I may be getting back into DOA.
Damn who said that Kokoro lost to Christie 7-3?
Not really at this moment. It isn't that I think that Kokoro wins the matchup. I actually haven't really thought of that matchup at all. I could see why Kokoro would lose though because of how fast Christie is in addition to her great stepping ability. The trade off is that I can crush her jabs or delay strings.
I'm gonna have to run some christie sets. I don't think its worse than 6-4 though if anything.
I'm gonna have to run some christie sets. I don't think its worse than 6-4 though if anything.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Kokoro loses to Christie, but not 7-3. More 6-4.
+ Christie bullies Kokoro like she's a grappler, speed wise it's no contest who will be the pressure character.
+ Kokoro is incredibly linear and Christie has the best sidestep in the game, literally dances around her best tools.
+ Christie is a midweight vs Kokoro being a light weight, so their damage output juggle wise evens out.
- Throw/hold damage is in Kokoro's favor.
+ Christie bullies Kokoro like she's a grappler, speed wise it's no contest who will be the pressure character.
+ Kokoro is incredibly linear and Christie has the best sidestep in the game, literally dances around her best tools.
+ Christie is a midweight vs Kokoro being a light weight, so their damage output juggle wise evens out.
- Throw/hold damage is in Kokoro's favor.
dawnbringer
Active Member
What about space control?
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Cheistie excels at that too. From her built in back dash from sidestep, to 6p(which will beat anything kokoro throws out) which cancels to sidestep within string on top of that. Kokoro has an uphill battle, but not unwinnable by any means.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
I kind of fail to see how that makes it 6-4 rather than 7-3. Even though throw damage is in Kokoro's favor, to actually be able to throw, she has to wait for Christie to do something unsafe, or wait for Christie to hold, which is probably gonna be never, since Christie dances around Kokoro like you yourself said. To make people hold you have to hit them or be aggressive or put pressure, and Kokoro will have a lot of trouble hitting Christie at all, let alone putting pressure. Christie outspeeds her, outsteps her and outcrushes her. Christie's not so easy to hold against either..
7-3 is fine, if it's not 8-2... I literally see no way for Kokoro to win, other than Christie making a (few) very awful mistake(s) while Kokoro makes none. I'd even argue that this is the most unbalanced/one-sided match-up in the whole game.
dawnbringer
Active Member
If both players play match-up correctly and there's no way for Kokoro to win then it's 10-0, not 8-2.
I don't understand how any of you come to the conclusion that this game has matcheups such as anything below 6-4. Universal tools do not allow for such lopsided matchups. This isn't Street Fighter or Blazblue, seriously.
And no one has seemed to bother answering my previous question;
And no one has seemed to bother answering my previous question;
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
I keep it that way, because people seem to be very sensitive when it comes to DOA matchups. Anything that's greater than 6-4 is already controversial.
Because there are no matchups greater than 6-4.
MajesticBlue
Active Member
Kokoro's tracking is that bad? She has nothing at all to hit Christie out her SS stance? I have found most of the cast can interrupt the stance pretty easily fot the most part. If she can't then yeah, that is pretty bad. I find lots of 1Ps own the transitions. Unless it is supposed to be spammed at a distance.
Also when it comes to holds I agree we need a way to incorporate them into the list. Since lots of things are unseeable and it can come down to a guess. The risk vs reward on a hold makes it hard for me to want to include them into the debate unless they are really good or really bad. It kinda goes back to Doa 4 Bayman balance. His strongest skill was getting lucky. While reading plays a huge part. At the highest levels of play where tiers come into play reading should be a diminished factor I feel. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like lots of matchups change if you add or take away holds.
Also when it comes to holds I agree we need a way to incorporate them into the list. Since lots of things are unseeable and it can come down to a guess. The risk vs reward on a hold makes it hard for me to want to include them into the debate unless they are really good or really bad. It kinda goes back to Doa 4 Bayman balance. His strongest skill was getting lucky. While reading plays a huge part. At the highest levels of play where tiers come into play reading should be a diminished factor I feel. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like lots of matchups change if you add or take away holds.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
That would suggest the game is extremely balanced, which it.. Well, isn't.
Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
Kokoro loses to Christie but its not as bad as 7-3. Christies speed and JAK and Kokoro's lack of tracking are the main issues. JAK is a SS and a crouch coupled in one so Kokoro's main tracking options will be worth nil to JAK. JAK also gives her the edge in spacing and footsies since Kokoro's options are linear. However Kokoro can still catch it with 1T and that throw is dirty as it guarantees damage and wall splat setups. In close range Christie's speed is an issue but it's not unmanageable with Kokoro who has 10/ 12/ 13 speeds; she isn't Bass. She has some ok ways to get frame advantage (Heichu 2p / P+K, 3K2P variants) or even open up the stun game with her string grabs, 4T, 236T and 6P+K (+3, 6P+KP +18) which forces a guess if they don't want. to eat the P followup. This is a winnable fight for Kokoro. If you guys want to see a 7-3 matchup look at Bass Vs. Kasumi or Christie.
If you take the universal tools out of the equation, then the game has these apparent terrible matchups. But you don't factor out holds, stagger escape and the side step system. They are included, they are what make DOA balanced because they are "always available" to both players during a match.