The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[Jaguar360]

Oh sorry, I didn´t know about this. I will share my reasoning.

• I agree with Forlorn Penguin, you make a great point. I was thinking that Bayman's offensive holds and good low throws would give him a slight advantage over Brad Wong. However Brad's evasion great and his low/mid strikes and lying OH give him advantage. I personally think that it is a 5-5 matchup between them.
• For the first matchup, Alpha has a better range game than Mila (other than Mila's 3H+K) and avoid the Takedown well with her a powerful throw (33T, 236236T, or just regular throw), 2141236T, or jumping moves. Alpha also has fast strikes that can combo into powerful combos and a good CB! game. I also think that Alpha's OH's will give Mila trouble. However, Alpha-152's lack of wake-up kicks and general disadvantage can give Mila advantage which could lead into a really powerful combo. However, I believe that Alpha-152 still has a better matchup against Mila. So, I'll leave the matchup as 6-4.
• Hayate is too predictable to have a good matchup against Hayabusa. Most of Hayate's moves consist of mid punches, mid kicks, and high punches, all of which Hayabusa can use a high-damaging expert hold on. Hayabusa's throws are also more powerful than Hayate's. Neither of the characters are very safe, but Hayate will have a better time throw punishing Ryu's unsafe attacks with 236T. Hayate also have a generally better striking game against Ryu, but his combos aren't the most poweful and if he is held, he will take a lot of damage. Hayabusa is in favor here. Matchup stays as 3-7 for me.
• I think I should adjust the Alpha-152 x Hayabusa matchup to 5-5 or 6-4. Hayabusa posseses superior range to Alpha's with a whole set of long-range stikes in and out of Ongoyin. However, Alpha has faster strikes than Hayabusa and can be very unpredictable. She also uses more kicks than punches, which makes Hayabusa's Izuna holds less useful. If Hayabusa does hold, a hi-counter B.U.R.S.T or 33T to the face will not be fun for him. On the other hand, Alpha's holds don't do anything for her, so Hayabusa can be less afraid of striking. She is also very unsafe and Ryu has good throw punishing tools with 6T and 2T.
• The 5-5 matchup with Hayate and Kasumi probably needs to be adjusted as well to 4-6. This is mainly because Kasumi is faster than her brother, which I think beats Hayate's slight edge in power. Kasumi's holds are about as good as Hayate's but she also has the advantage of parries. Hayate is slightly superior in the throw category, having a better throw punisher with 236T + 7K doing 72 damage and with the more damaging hi-counter throw with Raijin doing about 106 damage on hi-counter compared to Kasumi's Oboro which does 102 on high counter. However Kasumi wins out due to her speed and parries.

 

[Awesmic]

You fellas continue on with your match up numbers though. I enjoy the laughs

Laughter is good for you. That said, I came up with my own matchup thingy, some with brief reasons and others just by gut feeling of personal experience.

EDIT:

Christie v Christie = 5-5
Christie v Kasumi = 5-5
Christie v Ayane = 3-7 (lots of moves track, negating the usefulness of JAK-ing off)
Christie v Hayate = 6-4
Christie v Hayabusa = 5-5
Christie v Alpha = 1-9
Christie v Jann Lee = 5-5
Christie v Lei Fang = 5-5
Christie v Zack = 1-9
Christie v Hitomi = 5-5
Christie v Tina = 5-5
Christie v Lisa = 4-6 (same as Ayane)
Christie v Helena = 5-5
Christie v Rig = 7-3 (too many linear attacks can be interrupted)
Christie v Bayman = 6-4
Christie v Bass = 8-2 (speed alone is a major factor)
Christie v Mila = 5-5
Christie v Eliot = 3-7
Christie v Gen Fu = 5-5
Christie v Brad Wong = 6-4
Christie v Kokoro = 7-3
Christie v Akira = 5-5
Christie v Sarah = 4-6
Christie v Pai = 4-6

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

this may just be a hunch,but i think Awesmic likes Christie just sayin

Christie v Ayane = 3-7 (lots of moves track, negating the usefulness of JAK-ing off)

agreed,she screws up Bayman's rolls too,but considering he doesn't rely on those nearly as much as Christie does ,along with his ability to actually do quite a bit from back turned when she jumps overhead,her light weight and his heavy weight,and some fairly predictable attacks from the spins id put the match up....Bayman v Ayane 6-4? im new to this so i might be(probably am) wrong.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Nice, the sheet is getting a bit more fleshed out finally.

Here's the current list based on current matchups:

S - Ayane, Christie, Sarah
A - Jann Lee, Kasumi, Leifang, Lisa, Gen Fu, Brad
B - Alpha-152, Mila
C - Akira, Helena, Pai, Hayabusa, Tina, Bayman, Hitomi, Rig, Zack
D - Hayate, Eliot, Kokoro, Bass

 

[DontForkWitMe]

Laughter is good for you. That said, I came up with my own matchup thingy, some with brief reasons and others just by gut feeling of personal experience.

Christie v Eliot = 3-7

cmon now dawg christie is one of eliots worst matchups, her jakeihiokakawuchamacalli stance completely destroys him she gets more guaranteed setups, outpressures the shit out of him, has far better mixup game, the matchup is 7-3 at worst 6-4 at best all in her favor

 

[Jaguar360]

Nice, the sheet is getting a bit more fleshed out finally.

Here's the current list based on current matchups:

S - Ayane, Christie, Sarah
A - Jann Lee, Kasumi, Leifang, Lisa, Gen Fu, Brad
B - Alpha-152, Mila
C - Akira, Helena, Pai, Hayabusa, Tina, Bayman, Hitomi, Rig, Zack
D - Hayate, Eliot, Kokoro, Bass

Cool. I wonder how Akira and Kokoro got so low on the list and how Brad got so high. I really appreciate your work with this tier list Mr. Wah.

 

[Awesmic]

cmon now dawg christie is one of eliots worst matchups, her jakeihiokakawuchamacalli stance completely destroys him she gets more guaranteed setups, outpressures the shit out of him, has far better mixup game, the matchup is 7-3 at worst 6-4 at best all in her favor

Oh, that's right. I haven't fought an Eliot since the patch.

 

[Julius Rage]

Zacks only bad match ups are Helena, Sarah, Alpha...that's it. He ain't that fuckin low. If you're really safe, really fast or have Helenas particular brand of bullshit you can get in his ass but he's legit vs everyone else. He might struggle vs a guy or chick with a mid/high or mid/mid parry but he's far from an under dog vs those types.

 

[grap3fruitman]

I don't think anyone saying he's bad, he's just average and doesn't particularly stand out.

 

[Julius Rage]

Two critical bursts, The best side step attack in the game, two sit downs that guarantee damage, good throws, creates distance we'll and closes it better than 80% of the roster.

He's not safe and has no advanced defensive options but against all but 4 or 5 characters I'd take a Zack player to win if he knows exactly what he's doing.

High B tier at the LEAST!

Christie v Zack = 7-3

You're smoking rocks, that's a 5-5 or 4-6 for Zack.

If you don't have a sabaki, parry or advanced counter then Zack can hurt you.

 

[Awesmic]

You're smoking rocks, that's a 5-5 or 4-6 for Zack.

If you don't have a sabaki, parry or advanced counter then Zack can hurt you.

OK, I'll change it.

Christie v. Zack = 1-9

 

[synce]

I don't think Christie/Alpha is 7-3, 5-5 at best. Any decent Alpha will tech 99% of knockdowns so lack of wakeups doesn't matter much, and Alpha's KKK can make short work of SS abuse

 

[Awesmic]

I don't think Christie/Alpha is 7-3, 5-5 at best. Any decent Alpha will tech 99% of knockdowns so lack of wakeups doesn't matter much, and Alpha's KKK can make short work of SS abuse

Fine, I'll change it.

Christie v. Alpha = 1-9

 

[synce]

thx

 

[Matt Ponton]

Those having an issue with the current letter tiers need to realize it's based on the continuing discussion of the matchups. Characters such as Helena, Zack, and Akira for example are only in a lower tier because no one has provided any matchups for them.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

Perhaps we should change some of the matchups to include some of the lower tiered characters? I'll swap in two new ones and default them to 5-5.

Zack x Helena 5-5
Pai x Bass 5-5
Rig x Gen Fu 4-6
Tina x Kokoro 5-5
Brad x Bayman 6-4

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Those having an issue with the current letter tiers need to realize it's based on the continuing discussion of the matchups. Characters such as Helena, Zack, and Akira for example are only in a lower tier because no one has provided any matchups for them.

Akira is a damn beast. I've been recently using him.

The only 2 things I feel he lacks are limited range attacks, and a slightly less obvious way to enter burst. But at the end of the day he really doesn't need it as he can get a good chunk guaranteed damage even if the opponent is blocking which is always great fun to do. Also, THAT JF KNEE IS GLORIOUS! lol

 

[XZero264]

Brad x Bayman 6-4 seems pretty accurate, 5-5 would be the only other alternative but that wouldn't fly well. (Oh hey, I can actually provide some thoughts on this)

Brad has enough stance transitions and attack height mixups to prevent a Bayman from consistently being able to execute proper parries, advanced holds, or holds in general if under pressure. Brad has enough stance attacks to be able to use different combos in the entirety of a match to keep Bayman guessing or staying on the defensive before slipping in a surprise throw or attack Bayman can't block right. Not to mention I know several people who use Brad's stances as evasions (and use them very well) so that a mid or high whiff becomes a free Hi-Counter launcher or Throw that nets a good amount of free damage.
When Bayman does get a knockdown of some sort in he plays a bit of the guessing game as Brad is capable of going directly into some of his stances after being knocked down and from there either has to get attacks in quickly or get away somehow. With Bayman playing defensive from this Brad can get some easy throws in or the possibility of guaranteed damage from his BT Throw if he happens to be BT at the time. More or less it is a guessing game with Brad, unless the Bayman happens to know all of Brad's attack lineups he is going to have a difficult time getting some damage off.

Bayman does have his own advantages against Brad. Whenever Brad is standing and playing defensively you have lots of Throws and Guard Break options to put Bayman in the green. If Brad is in his Handstand he is a perfect OH target because the only option he has from there to not get hurt is to use his low punch from handstand just to attempt to avoid the OH (not to mention his Handstand range is kinda short and takes time to get out of). If he is in his laying stance you can use any number of Knockdown attacks to get a free ground throw in (provided your attack comes out before Brad rolls away or attempts attacks of his own) or even low throw when Bayman knows he can get it in. When all else fails Tank rolling is what will save Bayman because Brad strings or single hits tend to have longer animations than most other characters and are almost always mid or high in height with little tracking.
In the case Bayman is being put into a defensive play style against Brad look for the patterns and advanced hold or parry when you know you will get one guaranteed, don't throw them out willy-nilly because you will get yourself killed quickly by a Brad that knows how to launch and followup. Look for the stances and use the transition times against Brad as they usually cover a distance or take a good bit of time to go through.

I'm probably missing some other things in there (I don't know all their tricks) but that is what I think.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Record it so people can see a real 7-3 matchup. lol.

Didn't record anything, but I was so upset I just physically ed the guy three times on his arm. We were both laughing at how stupid this whole thing is. It was bare jokes.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

this may just be a hunch,but i think Awesmic likes Christie just sayin



agreed,she screws up Bayman's rolls too,but considering he doesn't rely on those nearly as much as Christie does ,along with his ability to actually do quite a bit from back turned when she jumps overhead,her light weight and his heavy weight,and some fairly predictable attacks from the spins id put the match up....Bayman v Ayane 6-4? im new to this so i might be(probably am) wrong.

Before I explain how this matchup actually works. Care to explain how you came to the conclusion that Bayman vs Ayane is 6-4 in Bayman's favor? And what are these "fairly predictable" attacks from spins you speak of?

Awesmic: Let's be realistic here, it is impossible for a game like Dead or Alive to have a matchup such as 9-1 (or 8-2 for that matter). 7-3 is pushing it as well for the simple fact that every character has 3 tools available to them.

Defensive holds, stagger escape, and sidestep (especially holds), these universal tools do not allow for a matchup to be so lopsided in this game.