Considering that low holds also avoid throws, there isn't much guessing if the options of your oponent is FR or a throw, if he correctly reads your low hold trying to avoid a FR or a throw, then he outplayed you.
Though i would preffer if the first hit of FR was holdable like regular high strikes, it is not that dangerous of a move. Also, considering how slow it is to come out, i doubt it will be used much like a CB, unless the oponent puts you in some really deep stun state.
I'd assume you can. Haven't really seen any footage of people trying to hold it, but I imagine a string that creates a stun that is unholdable, the initial hit will surely be holdable. Worst case its one of those hits that when you hold you step to the side.
There is. Critical holds (holds from stun) do less damage and have longer recovery frames, meaning that they are easier to punish. Enemy launchers also have increased launch height relative to stun threshold, allowing more punishing juggle combos and the such. Then of course there's the obvious: you can't block, and are placed at a huge frame disadvantage.
Until a random hold resets everything. Course I'm of the opinion the stun system should be reduced down to 2 or 3 hits and holds should only be accessible in neutral, but that will never happen.
Until a random hold resets everything. Course I'm of the opinion the stun system should be reduced down to 2 or 3 hits and holds should only be accessible in neutral, but that will never happen.
You can use a similar argument to criticize any unfavorable situation. "Being knocked down only punishes you until a random wake-up kick (or armored wake-up attack, etc.) resets everything." What users prefer is a matter of degree, but what's not subjective is that there is punishment for being in stun. Frankly, I'd rather be KND'd than stunned, given how vicious the stun vortex can be with certain characters.
Some of ya'll in here sounding like you legit dont even like DOA lmfao
Tekken Vs VF would be pretty awesome but not in the context of it being a tool to help them refine DOA itself. That sounds backwards considering DOA still exists and VF doesnt at the moment. TN just needs to take the criticism that they get at EVO very seriously provided they can get some from really good players or other Devs.
Some of ya'll in here sounding like you legit dont even like DOA lmfao
Tekken Vs VF would be pretty awesome but not in the context of it being a tool to help them refine DOA itself. That sounds backwards considering DOA still exists and VF doesnt at the moment. TN just needs to take the criticism that they get at EVO very seriously provided they can get some from really good players or other Devs.
Like any game there's aspects you'll always like and dislike. I was never a fan of the stun changes made in 4 and didn't like that much of it remained in 5 and even in doa2 and 3 I felt things like defensive holds should not be available in stun.
Only thing I dislike about guest characters is you don't see them again. I know Rachael has much of Nichole (Spartan's) moves, but its still not the same lol. I loved playing that character.
Ok, let's say my oponent does a mid punch hold. For him to get the hold, i need to do a mid punch, what other stuff i can do? Throw, low punch, mid kick, low kick, high punch, high kick, delay mid punch so it misses his hold.
If he low holds, every kind of mid will hit, delayed lows, low throws.
And so on.
For every hold option that someone has during critical stun, the one attacking will always have more options, if that is not an advantage, i don't know what is
Low, if you're getting held of every stun that you get, it means you're being linear or predictable, and that is exactly what the triangle system wants to avoid. Like, imagine how boring it would be if you just fished for two jabs, and then did a hit confirm into a max damage combo?
Some things i like to share my thoughts.
Meter gain: So far, it is very fast, don't know if that is what they intend, or they just put that way in the e3 demo so people would go more for break blows and break holds to show the new mechanics, i think it can be toned down.
Sidestep Attack: previously in other threads and in some chats, i said that i would be fine with not a single sidestep button like in DOA 5 as long as i had a freestep that allowed me to avoid attacks. While i do still want a better freestep, i came to understand the importance of a single sidestep in a 3d fighter more these days, i like how simple the input is in 5, but i still wouldn't hate DOA 6 if the sidestep option was just freestepping and the sidestep attack.
Break Blows: They're fast, they're deadly, not sure if they can be held raw, but if they're strikes, i imagine you can hold them out of critical stun, as far as i'm aware, if an strike is unholdable you get at least the sidestep animation like mentioned before right? Anyways, they're still really good and strong, they beat highs, mids and throws, they can be guaranteed after Fatal Rushes and also be done during juggles, probably the most dangerous of the new mechanics.
Break Holds: Universal hold, but it works exactly like a hold (can be hi counter thrown out of it), it leaves oponent backturned, deals a little damage, but it doesn't seem to give you guaranteed followups, also, the meter burns as you press the command, so, i imagine it is something that can be baited a lot, and since meter carries on through battles, i can see someone letting the oponent get a Break Hold just to force you to start next round empty, or someone preferring to lose the round and start the next full meter, so usage will be very specific at best, i'm fine with this.
Fatal Rushes: It is confusing, every info on the game says it can't be held, and we know that you can't hold out of the fatal stun, but how about holding its first hit? But, even if you can't, it is still a high, so you can use a low hold and get a punish, with its long startup and long recovery, it is something easily punishable, but it also has its uses mentioned here before. But the first hit being holdable (or at least avoided by a high hold), will make a big difference on this move, and while for me it seems like a really bad move to use, it was pointed out here it could be used like a CB, you play the stun game a bit to get that deep stun, and when the oponent doesn't expect, you throw a Fatal Rush and combo into super, but it seems that doing the whole fatal rush into Break blow scales the damage down a bit, so you're probably better doing just the first hit and going for BB, also, you can do it in juggles, no reason for do that though, since damage is garbage, unless you want that cool lighting and fire effect that ryu has during it (i hope ayane gets her purple energy fire thingy as well). Oh, and it also creates wall bounces and splats, so even if you don't get a full bar, if you use it in the end of a deep stun, you can extend your combo, trigger danger zones, and so on. So, my belief is that this mechanic while advertised as the easy way for newcomers, it will have its specific users for good players while not removing from the core gameplay, but i would love to know if you can hold the first hit. I just would like to say, that since the 3 hits after the first are guaranteed, they could speed up the animation, the game is fast, but the fatal rush string is slow, it is making people think the game is slow, and remove that blood effect. In general, i'm fine with this mechanic.
TL DR. I'm fine with Fatal Rushes even though i would like to know if they're holdable on the first hit or not. I'm completely Fine with Break Holds. I'm worried about the power of Break Blows and slightly worried about the lack of a single sidestep command, meter gain is too fast.
We haven't seen how the different types of stuns (slip stun, void stun and so on) work in DOA 6, but if they stay the way they are in DOA 5LR i'm ok.
If it was pushed enough I'm sure it would actually be considered. TN can do it while working on DoA6 with relative ease. It can give some of the ten million players that played Core Fighters a look into DoA history while also providing a basic run-down of the core mechanics of DoA
Dead or Alive 6--confirmed to be released in early 2019--is 8% in development, and Team Ninja is a small team. They already have enough to deal with as it is. Spamming requests for a remastered trilogy--while working on an actual sequel simultaneously--will do nothing but bring more unnecessary stress, as well as take away time needed to actually release a complete game. Remember how incomplete and buggy DOA5 vanilla was? Just let them do their thing.
What Project Bokuho said is that Team Ninja is a small devevelopment team, and they have their hands full at the momment. Sure, i would love a DOA collection as much as any other person, but it is better for DOA 6 to come out finished and polished first, it is a matter of priority.
Well, I hope DOA6 will be a well-made and complete game. All the characters are there, all the content is there, otherwise I'll have to wait for another year assuming that there will be a DOA6 Ultimate because I really don't like the practice of re-releasing the same game only a different version which I've been seeing from other fighting games, like Street Fighter IV. Which is why it's not uncommon that there are people who plan to buy the game 1-2 years after its release just to make sure their choice is right, and to save money.
I fell victim once on Naruto Ninja Storm 3. A month after I bought the game, they released a Full Burst version and it frustrated me because I couldn't afford to buy another game again. I couldn't sell it either because nobody wanted it.
Believe it or not there are more DOA Fans ready to move on to something new and exciting for the franchise than live in the past. A lot of us had an amazing day when 6 was announced. I get sticking to your guns dude but man lmao. They should have already made release time for 6 MID 2019 I don't suspect we're going to see DOA 6 in Q1 and you're saying they should crap out a anniversary bundle of the first 3 games remastered and DOA 6 within months of eachother?
I would rather see DOA 6 come out better than 5 with better reception and draw more new fans into the series.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I think since we have these meters it would be amazing if defensive holds were tied to them. You'd actually have to make a calculated decision on your hold instead of just willy nilly throwing it out there or spamming low holds to get out of stuns. Like the hold would burn something like 10% of the meter. It would keep how often the meter maxes out in a round as well.
Not a bad idea. I personally prefer the idea of holds having tiers, not based on timing (alone), but based on amount of stun as well. Meaning;
Neutral: Full hold animation + full damage
Light stun: Partial/separate animation + reduced damage
Heavy stun: "Parry" that leaves defender safe but with frame disadvantage.
Not a bad idea. I personally prefer the idea of holds having tiers, not based on timing (alone), but based on amount of stun as well. Meaning;
Neutral: Full hold animation + full damage
Light stun: Partial/separate animation + reduced damage
Heavy stun: "Parry" that leaves defender safe but with frame disadvantage.
I actually really like that. It would add a lot of diversity to the gameplay and make the Hold system more dynamic in the meta as well as build the hype. This would be preferable to locking it to the meter because...
If Soul Calibur has taught us anything lol
Making a defensive measure that has been in the game for this long take meter, is going to get you burned.
if you're getting held of every stun that you get, it means you're being linear or predictable, and that is exactly what the triangle system wants to avoid.
Yes, and if you do a string with only mids or if you mash Punch when you get that single hit, you're being even more linear and predictable.
And again, you can simply launch the enemy and go for guaranteed juggles, DOA 5 LR as it is has a bunch of different guaranteed setups, and characters that don't play the stun game or don't rely on it.
You're asking: "why should i be punished if i outsmarted my oponent?" and i'm giving you a simple answer, if everytime you get a stun you get held, you're not outsmarting anyone. Because if you're really outplaying your oponent, then you'll not get blown by holds.
You might say: "but he can guess a hold and can be just right by chance". Yeah, it is a possibility, the same way it is possible for you to land a jab while mashing it because you don't know what to do, the same way is possible for you to mash a DP in a 2d fighting game and then land and get massive damage. In every fighting game, in every game, there is just the possibility of someone getting lucky, but i can guarantee you, someone that knows how to play, that is outsmarting the oponent in every single way, will not ever lose just to holds.
I showed before that if you land the stun you already have the advantage, you have way more options of being successful than the chances of failing. It is the basis of how DOA it is today, and how it has been for long years and its part of its core mechanics, they won't change that, you have other games that don't work like that, where you hit confirm 2 jabs into a super and you're fine.
Yes, and if you do a string with only mids or if you mash Punch when you get that single hit, you're being even more linear and predictable.
And again, you can simply launch the enemy and go for guaranteed juggles, DOA 5 LR as it is has a bunch of different guaranteed setups, and characters that don't play the stun game or don't rely on it.
You're asking: "why should i be punished if i outsmarted my oponent?" and i'm giving you a simple answer, if everytime you get a stun you get held, you're not outsmarting anyone. Because if you're really outplaying your oponent, then you'll not get blown by holds.
You might say: "but he can guess a hold and can be just right by chance". Yeah, it is a possibility, the same way it is possible for you to land a jab while mashing it because you don't know what to do, the same way is possible for you to mash a DP in a 2d fighting game and then land and get massive damage. In every fighting game, in every game, there is just the possibility of someone getting lucky, but i can guarantee you, someone that knows how to play, that is outsmarting the oponent in every single way, will not ever lose just to holds.
I showed before that if you land the stun you already have the advantage, you have way more options of being successful than the chances of failing. It is the basis of how DOA it is today, and how it has been for long years and its part of its core mechanics, they won't change that, you have other games that don't work like that, where you hit confirm 2 jabs into a super and you're fine.
This. I don't understand people who say they get blown open by holds when in DOA, you CAN hold off on doing a combo and do extensions on people who hold.
It's not like SF, Tekken or most other fighters where you HAVE to get combos down in seconds. If someone tries to hold or spams holds, you can literally wait and punish or grab them when they do so for extra damage, especially if it's a command grab.
I honestly feel like most people don't watch DOA tournaments because one of the main things that is DRILLED into you by the high tier players is to never spam holds since you can get blown up stupid fast for it.
This. I don't understand people who say they get blown open by holds when in DOA, you CAN hold off on doing a combo and do extensions on people who hold.
It's not like SF, Tekken or most other fighters where you HAVE to get combos down in seconds. If someone tries to hold or spams holds, you can literally wait and punish or grab them when they do so for extra damage, especially if it's a command grab.
I honestly feel like most people don't watch DOA tournaments because one of the main things that is DRILLED into you by the high tier players is to never spam holds since you can get blown up stupid fast for it.
I think you guys are missing the point. Its not that players are getting blown up by holds. Its the mere fact that even after playing the neutral game and winning that the game continues to play RPS. Even in DoA5 with all its setups, the RPS function can still be way too heavy at times.
