DOA5LR New character expectations (Spring 2016)

[Banana56]

Imagine if Marie Rose and Honoka spots were taken by male character or a charming adult girl..

Just imagine how better it would be

I can see fans complaining and constantly requesting them back now lol

 

[werewolfgold]

FYI just because something is popular doesn't mean it's by default 'lowest common denominator' mob mentality. That is a very hipster line of thinking. The flaw in the 'quantity is not quality' logic is that anything unpopular by the masses must objectively be the superior entity regardless of what it is.

That doesn't logically follow at all, actually.

What I said was that something being popular or appealing doesn't make the things wrong with it go away, nor does it make it "good" by default. I also didn't say that all things popular were LCD quality by default. I just brought it up as an example of how something being popular may not mean anything substantial. Quantity and quality aren't the same thing. That doesn't mean that it can't coincide. I don't really think it is super true when it comes to Marie and Honoka, though. You can think differently.

Whether or not characters like MR/Honoka is 'warranted' the popularity is irrelevant since we all tend to forget that popularity isn't something that can be logically explained or even justified as if it was a math equation.

But, it kind of can be logically explained. Marie and Honoka are moe. Moe = appealing, especially for Japan. MATHLETE-TIER EQUATIONS UP IN THIS TOPIC, YO. I'm quite proud of myself. lol

It's all subjective tastes in the end that is born from how society shaped us and the only difference is there are more people with similar subjective tastes compared to the other. Whether it's MR tier popularity or Ein tier your not liking the character because of it being objectively better then the other since it all falls under the 'eye of the beholder' umbrella where we all have our own independent criteria of what is 'best'.

If we lay out on the table our independent criteria for "quality" and "best", even if it's subjective, it can still be discussed.

-----

Marie Rose and Honoka are not only popular though, they are LOVED by many especially Marie Rose. Aside from them being cute girls, Marie Rose added a lot of diversity to the game. She was the first female to have a very small chest, she is the first "kid" character, she has a unique fighting style that no other fighting game has (goes for both her style of the martial art and the martial art in general), ect. Plus she is a tsunadere(ish) character which is a very loved character archetype (just look at Karin and Lili).

I could've sworn people immediately compared Marie's fighting style to Lili's once they saw her in action. "Systema" name notwithstanding, she still gives off an acrobatic ballerina quality. Perhaps still unique within DOA itself, so that's fine. A "purer" form of Systema as commonly seen in Russian military would likely not have been as appealing to the market they were going for.

And I don't even think there are grounds to call her tsundere-ish at this point. That may be based on assumptions. She would have to have meaningful interactions with others besides "Lady Helena!" and "Do you like milk, too?" before that could be established.

Honoka isn't the most original character but she is inspired by Love Live's Honoka. And some people here may not know it as majority if not everyone here isn't from Japan, but Love Live is HUUUUUUUUUGE in Japan so of course many people were going to love Honoka. Plus some people may think it's cute to see an adorable girl using others fighting styles as it looks funny and cute.

This doesn't really go against anything I said, though. I know why they're popular. I just said that them being popular shouldn't be an automatic vindication of their faults.

And just because you may not like them and are part of the vocal minority of people who don't like them doesn't mean those who do like them are the "lowest common denominator". No offense, but only haters/butthurt people think like that.

Me not liking them and them being created based on perhaps "trendy", mass-market appealing reasons are two separate instances. So, no, it wouldn't mean that and I take no offense since it doesn't apply.

And there is no issue by those two being loved or popular.

I'd kind of disagree. I'm not sure "copypasta" should be so rewarded really. Not to mention the personal problem of something I don't like being super popular, thus maybe driving others to create more things like it and me getting less of things I actually do want. This is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge problem, by the way. lol

Twilight and 50 shades may have a lot of haters, but that doesn't make it a bad thing (especially when they have just as much love if not more love then hate).

Didn't quite say that...

 

[Argentus]

Marie Rose and Honoka are not only popular though, they are LOVED by many especially Marie Rose. Aside from them being cute girls, Marie Rose added a lot of diversity to the game. She was the first female to have a very small chest, she is the first "kid" character, she has a unique fighting style that no other fighting game has (goes for both her style of the martial art and the martial art in general), ect. Plus she is a tsunadere(ish) character which is a very loved character archetype (just look at Karin and Lili). Honoka isn't the most original character but she is inspired by Love Live's Honoka. And some people here may not know it as majority if not everyone here isn't from Japan, but Love Live is HUUUUUUUUUGE in Japan so of course many people were going to love Honoka. Plus some people may think it's cute to see an adorable girl using others fighting styles as it looks funny and cute.

And just because you may not like them and are part of the vocal minority of people who don't like them doesn't mean those who do like them are the "lowest common denominator". No offense, but only haters/butthurt people think like that. And there is no issue by those two being loved or popular.

Twilight and 50 shades may have a lot of haters, but that doesn't make it a bad thing (especially when they have just as much love if not more love then hate).

Not quite.

Just like 50 shades of grey and twilight, its WHAT people love that's wrong, as bad as that sounds.

It shows a lack of perspective on their part.

With 50 shades of grey, what people love is fundamentally wrong and can land them in the hospital or a grave. Not that rough love is wrong, but how its portrayed in 50 shades of grey is.

Same deal with twilight. Inherently its just a token Anne ryce novel. The problem comes from sheltered little girls loving it for two inherently flawed reasons.
The first being how they go "vampires are sexy" but people who have knowledge of folklore and literature point out that there ARE no vampires in twilight. The creatures described/shown are more along the lines of fairies or elves.
Secondly, "aw he's following her around/watching her sleep that's so sweet and romantic". Um NO that's a creepy ass stalker who broke into your home. That'd a red alert, not a red heart.

Much like the above, the love for mari and honoka is kind of misplaced.

If this were just a regular anime maybe even the old DOA style she would have gone completely unnoticed. But in 5's realistic art style, maries baby face, mannerisms, and c2 just emphasizes that in real life, liking a "loli" makes you a "Pedo"
And besides that, everyone appreciates her fighting style, which is unique, but her overall design isn't. Its stereotypically anime to the point that her and honoka, unlike the rest of the DOA cast, can't be recognized because their design is so generic. So yes her fighting style is cool but beyond that she's totally nondescript. Just some token loli.

Most of the above also applies to honoka save for the loli issue.

But people just go "omg so kawaii" and that's it. They don't care that aesthetically they are out of place, that honoka doesn't even have real gameplay or her own look.
People like them as anime characters, bt don't see them as fighting game characters, which makes the love for them q bad thing, because like 50shades of twilight, supporting them ultimately hurts more than it helps.

And yes i understand japan hates individuality and wants all their girls to be uniform and generic, hence this lowest common denominator trend with the dlc. The copy paste costumes and the characters. Its why I linked that article. I don't like how tn is going for the quick cash grab from the masses instead if putting effort into designs. They're going for quantity over quality.

So yeah the new team may be good on a technical level but they have almost zero artistic talent. All of their stuff is strictly business formula. Box stages, lcd dlc practices, ripping capcoms rrelease strategy to pinch money, etc. No sense of style at all. I still wish they could get itagaki (and his team) back as artistic/creative director.

As was said before, with very few exceptions, the only time doa5 designs were well received were fan designs or stages/music from past games.

FYI I'm not hating on people for liking Marie or honoka. To each their own. I known I'm in the relative minority for liking girls like Mila. I'm pointing out that for the rest of us its not simply a matter of disliking the characters, its recognizing the horrible implications of the ongoing trend.


Also onMarie Rose, FYI, again, nobody has a problem with her bust size. Its that she's explicitly designed to dress, act, and look like an actual child that makes people uncomfortable. That flies just fine in anime because of the art style but in something realistic like doa5 it is SO friggin creepy.



Anyways. I rememberd that like Lisa, this new character is designed for bikini playtime first and foremost, so also like Lisa, her X3 self will probably be nothing like her DOA self. Food for thought.


And don't get me wrong. I Love doa5. But I want to emphasize its flaws so they will be corrected so DOA can get even better.

I hope next time around Maries default is Axeouls submission that made it in game. That's unique even if reminiscent of pippi long stocking. I hope next time around Honoka loses the pigtail and gets her own moveset. I also think her camp skirt and black top make a much better default and iconic outfit. Those seem like good starting points to fix the problems with those two. Maybe ditchmarie roses pigtails as well or trade it for a single long ponytail


I may have condtadicted myself so let me try to clarify.

They are not characters that were designed. They are a formula that was followed. Whether you like them or not doesn't change that or their flaws.

 

[Juihau]

If this were just a regular anime maybe even the old DOA style she would have gone completely unnoticed. But in 5's realistic art style, maries baby face, mannerisms, and c2 just emphasizes that in real life, liking a "loli" makes you a "Pedo"

In all fairness, there's some evidence in-game to support that she's well aware of her appearance and isn't above using it to deliberately mess with and/or exploit people. Could be fun if they decide to go that direction with her (and honestly quite a bit more fitting for her fighting style).

 

[Argentus]

In all fairness, there's some evidence in-game to support that she's well aware of her appearance and isn't above using it to deliberately mess with and/or exploit people. Could be fun if they decide to go that direction with her (and honestly quite a bit more fitting for her fighting style).

I would actually find that pretty funny.

Though I do wish they'd make her last round outfit her "default". Actually I wish that for a lot of characters.

 

[KasumiLover]

I would actually find that pretty funny.

Though I do wish they'd make her last round outfit her "default". Actually I wish that for a lot of characters.

Kasumi and Phase 4's LR outfits would definitely make good defaults.

 

[SoftCabbage]

Wow we got essay writers up here.

Kasumi and Phase 4's LR outfits would definitely make good defaults.

Btw bro, which one is this so-called "LR costumes" though? Can give me one visual example please?

 

[WisperG]

Btw bro, which one is this so-called "LR costumes" though? Can give me one visual example please?

They probably mean the new fan-designed costumes that were included on-disc for each character in Last Round.

Spoiler: Kasumi

Spoiler: Phase 4

 

[Dark-truth]

Why do you think eliot is gay? Because he is polite, young boy or what?

Ok this is why i think he is gay
1 he's the only male that can change his hairstyle
2 he's the only male with glasses options
3 he got nailpolish on his new outfit for doa5lr
4 he loves milk
if that isn't enough evidence then idk what is enough

 

[Dark-truth]

by the way it might be a animal like tekken, that would be funny or a person with one arm. i have faith in TN this time, they never diasppointed me really honoka was a turndown for most people but i like her she's not my style but i really like her because she makes the doa story more interesting because there's another person with many unanswered questions

 

[Liza Minelli]

Ok this is why i think he is gay
1 he's the only male that can change his hairstyle
2 he's the only male with glasses options
3 he got nailpolish on his new outfit for doa5lr
4 he loves milk
if that isn't enough evidence then idk what is enough

What in God's name does liking milk have to do with sexual orientation? You sounds like a 12 year old, get off the internet

 

[Dark-truth]

What in God's name does liking milk have to do with sexual orientation? You sounds like a 12 year old, get off the internet

fuck liza you dumb bitch XD don't be salty cuz your career was shitty and i said "loves milk" not like milk and btw bitch you is 13 get your ass off the damn internet

 

[Yun-Seong]

Ok this is why i think he is gay
1 he's the only male that can change his hairstyle
2 he's the only male with glasses options
3 he got nailpolish on his new outfit for doa5lr
4 he loves milk
if that isn't enough evidence then idk what is enough

You really sound like kid. Every men/boy who is changing hairstyle is gay( yeah seems so so obvious - sarcasm). Brad also have option to change hairstyle. Also wearing glasses make every men gay - another stupid argument. About new outfit, it was designed by sm and TN didn;t change the orginal design.

 

[Dark-truth]

You really sound like kid. Every men/boy who is changing hairstyle is gay( yeah seems so so obvious - sarcasm). Brad also have option to change hairstyle. Also wearing glasses make every men gay - another stupid argument. About new outfit, it was designed by sm and TN didn;t change the orginal design.

brad wong stalks a young boy so that makes him gay too and i didn't said that wearing glasses makes the doa men gay eliot is the only male that has glasses option lol and if you read closely i said "ok this is why i THINK eliot is gay" i assumed something so yeah lol

 

[Yun-Seong]

brad wong stalks a young boy so that makes him gay too and i didn't said that wearing glasses makes the doa men gay eliot is the only male that has glasses option lol and if you read closely i said "ok this is why i THINK eliot is gay" i assumed something so yeah lol

Your definition of being gay is just ridiculous...

 

[Dark-truth]

Your definition of being gay is just ridiculous...

LOL the fact that you actually take this serious and gets worked up about it

 

[Yun-Seong]

I know it's Only a game but that just stupid?funny? don't know what should i think abbout this kind of judging people.

 

[Dark-truth]

el

I know it's Only a game but that just stupid?funny? don't know what should i think abbout this kind of judging people.

eliot isn't a real person lol, i judge a character not a person and i judge ppl on personalities

 

[Argentus]

el

eliot isn't a real person lol, i judge a character not a person and i judge ppl on personalities

You're judging based on literally nothing.

Evil Knieval couldn't make these leaps.

 

[Dark-truth]

You're judging based on literally nothing.

Evil Knieval couldn't make these leaps.

......... Ok lol