The video help me play phase 4 as a space character http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/phase-4-character-breakdown.4621/ GGs Devon
I Am The Shadow... The True Self... [General Discussion]
- Thread starter StrikerSashi
- Start date
Nightpup
Well-Known Member
Just the usual turtling complaints.
Chapstick
Well-Known Member
No, but day 1 I had someone so scared of her (idk why) they picked Alpha.
Gurimmjaw
Well-Known Member
I have not yet but had people raging on the mic about Phase 4 though.
PuertoRicanStyL
Active Member
I stand corrected on her follow up 
+ after + losing to all mid punches. I thought everyone's basic mid punch was the same, frame wise. Kappa..
+ after + losing to all mid punches. I thought everyone's basic mid punch was the same, frame wise. Kappa..
PuertoRicanStyL
Active Member
Definitely maining her. I'm having a lot of fun using her. The online isn't hindering my timing of doing teleports at all.
D3taylz
Member
Same dude, haven't been online with her yet but I've played some casuals. I think she'll need to be very match-up oriented so we'll probably need to start a match-up specific thread in the next Cpl weeks.
Overall are people still playing her? Heard a lot of people are struggling and frustrated already cause her offense is so unsafe.
Nightpup
Well-Known Member
Yes. I'm still seeing nothing but P4 online.
D3taylz
Member
That's really encouraging actually, Im gonna jump online tonight then. Need to start getting some matchup experience and see if I can find some experienced players using her.
PuertoRicanStyL
Active Member
I'm going to copy paste something I wrote in the DoA thread at VFDC. Just to simply share my thoughts so far. I've only used her for like, a total of 20-30 in game minutes of matches, lol. I've spent most of my time with her in dojo trying to remember her moves, getting the timing down on her teleports and whatnot. But still. Here it is.
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Right. I can't say too much about her since I've only had a handful of matches with her so far. And I can't say how good or bad the players I played were. But this has been my experience and mindset using her so far.
I've been going into the matches trying to use her vulnerability to throws on block to my advantage. The major buzz going around her is she's very easy to throw punish since most of her moves on block prove that. So that alone may naturally have people thinking "well shoot, I'm just going to block and/or block after my string gets blocked and wait to throw punish her all day since she can't do anything about it". Ok. Well what happens when I start my offense with her launch throw into combos instead of just blindly attacking first? What happens when I guard cancel my strings into other moves or delay my strings at different speeds and start landing counter hits on peoples throw or attack attemps?
Ok now we're starting to open people up, making them want to do things and starting a guessing game. After starting her offense with a few launch throws into whatever combo, suddenly, waiting for me to attack doesn't seem like the best of options, lol. So now, maybe I can start blocking and waiting for THEIR throw punishable moves to be thrown out! Now that I'm not finishing my strings, maybe they suddenly become safe since they gave up their advantage waiting for me to throw out the rest of it.
Yea she has those non string moves that are punishable by attacks on top of throws. But those are moves that (in my opinion) you don't want to use until you stun them. One thing I think people may be overlooking is how strong her PKKK, and KKK are. With KKK, the first kick is 12 frames, and if it lands, the other two K's follow up into a natural combo. The last two K's can even be delayed a very hit checkable time apart on all three K's and it'll STILL be a guaranteed 5 hit combo. Or you can stop at the second K and be at +11.
While the first K in PKKK isn't a natural combo on NH, it is on CH. Her P being 9frames obviously helps a lot, lol. And while she can be thrown after any K on block if you decide to not finish. There's enough K's in there to keep them honest and maybe not go for a throw asap after the first or second K. Which in turn can make it safe on block, or allow you to score a CH by PK'ng twice in a row (P, K, G, P, K). There's a few things you can do with that.
Her only safe mid on block is her 66P, P, P+K since the second P can't be held. Only safe f you get the teleport though. And the P after the teleport is only -4.
Besides that some moves you just may have to take a risk with. Mainly her 1P since it's -15 on hit and you can get low thrown if you decide not to follow up with the second P, or take too long to. I rarely use that move. Depending on what happened the first or second time I threw it out in a round. Best thing about it is it starts low. And obviously the follow up P if it connects. But the second P is suuuper risky. Yet a great reward if it lands.
That's how I've been playing her. Or trying to anyways, hahah.. To me, she's a very yomi based character that doesn't just go out there and do the work for you, and can be very strong if you make the right reads and your teleports are on point. I've never played Bass or anyone like that. But I'm guessing it's similar to them, to an extent. I have less than 0 knowledge on them though, so that last thing I just pulled out the air, lol.
Couple other moves I'd touch on. But I'm out of time. One last thing I'll say though. Like I said, I don't know the skill or knowledge level of the people I've played against using her. But using Phase definitely made those people want to block. In those handful of matches, people blocked more there than the whole 3-4 months I've been playing this online, lol. But I don't care how people play. People mashing should be the easiest ones to beat. I'm just sayin though.
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Right. I can't say too much about her since I've only had a handful of matches with her so far. And I can't say how good or bad the players I played were. But this has been my experience and mindset using her so far.
I've been going into the matches trying to use her vulnerability to throws on block to my advantage. The major buzz going around her is she's very easy to throw punish since most of her moves on block prove that. So that alone may naturally have people thinking "well shoot, I'm just going to block and/or block after my string gets blocked and wait to throw punish her all day since she can't do anything about it". Ok. Well what happens when I start my offense with her launch throw into combos instead of just blindly attacking first? What happens when I guard cancel my strings into other moves or delay my strings at different speeds and start landing counter hits on peoples throw or attack attemps?
Ok now we're starting to open people up, making them want to do things and starting a guessing game. After starting her offense with a few launch throws into whatever combo, suddenly, waiting for me to attack doesn't seem like the best of options, lol. So now, maybe I can start blocking and waiting for THEIR throw punishable moves to be thrown out! Now that I'm not finishing my strings, maybe they suddenly become safe since they gave up their advantage waiting for me to throw out the rest of it.
Yea she has those non string moves that are punishable by attacks on top of throws. But those are moves that (in my opinion) you don't want to use until you stun them. One thing I think people may be overlooking is how strong her PKKK, and KKK are. With KKK, the first kick is 12 frames, and if it lands, the other two K's follow up into a natural combo. The last two K's can even be delayed a very hit checkable time apart on all three K's and it'll STILL be a guaranteed 5 hit combo. Or you can stop at the second K and be at +11.
While the first K in PKKK isn't a natural combo on NH, it is on CH. Her P being 9frames obviously helps a lot, lol. And while she can be thrown after any K on block if you decide to not finish. There's enough K's in there to keep them honest and maybe not go for a throw asap after the first or second K. Which in turn can make it safe on block, or allow you to score a CH by PK'ng twice in a row (P, K, G, P, K). There's a few things you can do with that.
Her only safe mid on block is her 66P, P, P+K since the second P can't be held. Only safe f you get the teleport though. And the P after the teleport is only -4.
Besides that some moves you just may have to take a risk with. Mainly her 1P since it's -15 on hit and you can get low thrown if you decide not to follow up with the second P, or take too long to. I rarely use that move. Depending on what happened the first or second time I threw it out in a round. Best thing about it is it starts low. And obviously the follow up P if it connects. But the second P is suuuper risky. Yet a great reward if it lands.
That's how I've been playing her. Or trying to anyways, hahah.. To me, she's a very yomi based character that doesn't just go out there and do the work for you, and can be very strong if you make the right reads and your teleports are on point. I've never played Bass or anyone like that. But I'm guessing it's similar to them, to an extent. I have less than 0 knowledge on them though, so that last thing I just pulled out the air, lol.
Couple other moves I'd touch on. But I'm out of time. One last thing I'll say though. Like I said, I don't know the skill or knowledge level of the people I've played against using her. But using Phase definitely made those people want to block. In those handful of matches, people blocked more there than the whole 3-4 months I've been playing this online, lol. But I don't care how people play. People mashing should be the easiest ones to beat. I'm just sayin though.
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PuertoRicanStyL
Active Member
Nah. I just tested it winth SE on fastest and high hold for reaction. I just tested it, and it isn't a natural combo then
even with critcal hold set to fast.Which brings me to the question, dafuq is a 'critical hold', and how do you perform it? Is it just doing a hold while in the stun animation? That's kind of what it looks like watching the cpu do it. Leaving em from -17 to -27 if they miss..
Vigoorian King
Well-Known Member
Yes, that's what critical hold is. The thing is that critical hold does less damage than normal defensive hold, 20% less I think.
PuertoRicanStyL
Active Member
Hmm ok. So with that. I can only guess that besides finishers like her last K in the KKK string. Two hits is probably a general max of guaranteed hits while grounded.
With that said. I still stand by those moves being good for her in the neutral game for the reasons I stated about em. Besides HC holds, only other thing that beats those kicks is a low punch or a high crush move that would have to be done before the second hit connected.
With that said. I still stand by those moves being good for her in the neutral game for the reasons I stated about em. Besides HC holds, only other thing that beats those kicks is a low punch or a high crush move that would have to be done before the second hit connected.
Like Kasumi's, KKK isn't a natural combo. The second kick is already holdable. You can test that easily by setting the AI to fastest critical hold. The third kick just looks animation wise like a 3 in 1.
However, the KK string is still a good tool to get the opponent into stun. Since the first K is 12 frames, you can use it after her jab when you are about to poke. For example, you use 2P without landing a counterhit. Since it leaves you at +-0, you can use PK after it. If the opponent tries to retaliate with a mid punch after your 2P, you'll land a counterhit that gives you +8 advantage.
Also, it's still hard to react to the second kick from KK which means that your opponent needs some very good reactions to hold it, therefore you can still go for PKK too for getting a deeper stun.
However, the KK string is still a good tool to get the opponent into stun. Since the first K is 12 frames, you can use it after her jab when you are about to poke. For example, you use 2P without landing a counterhit. Since it leaves you at +-0, you can use PK after it. If the opponent tries to retaliate with a mid punch after your 2P, you'll land a counterhit that gives you +8 advantage.
Also, it's still hard to react to the second kick from KK which means that your opponent needs some very good reactions to hold it, therefore you can still go for PKK too for getting a deeper stun.
D3taylz
Member
Yes KKK is a natural combo. A natural combo by definition isn't invulnerable to Holds or Critical Holds, it just means the rest of the string cant be blocked if the first strike hits. Put on fastest SE and set the Comp's reaction to guard, all hits of KKK will connect. IIRC it's the only natural combo she has! At least on normal hit that is. Counter hit strings are a different beast.
Im still learning but I think there is very few set-ups in the game that cannot be escaped/countered with Holds, few exceptions off the top of my head are sit down stuns and back-turn (Limbo Stuns) and throws that get the opponent's back: Marie's Rose BT throw, Helena's BT throw, Kasumi/P4's 66T-T, etc.
That's true but PKK is only +12 on fastest SE I think*, quoting from memory so I might be off by 1 or 2 frames but I'm almost certain the only follow-up fast enough is P but it's no good cause KK and PKK has a lot of pushback.
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Tenryuga
Well-Known Member
This is not the definition of a natural combo in DOA. In DOA a natural combo is a sequence of attacks that cannot be guarded or held if the first hit connects. Kasumi's 3PP, Hitomis 3KK on normal hit, Hayates 4K6K off the top of my head are examples of natural combos.
Your definition of a natural combo is correct when applied to other 3D fighters.
No. Natural combos are combos that are neither blockable or holdable as soon as the first hit is landed sucessfully. For example, PP is a natural combo for (as far as I know) every character.
http://www.freestepdodge.com/wiki/dead-or-alive-terminology/
See natural combo.
Since we were talking about how useful/helpful this move is to open the opponent and not about what is guaranteed, I would still say it's good. Furthermore, not everyone is able to perform a fastest stagger escape.
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D3taylz
Member
I had no idea that even existed wow! Good to know.