DOA6 Gameplay Thread

[crapoZK]

WTF?? Are you on meth? Do you need help?

Yes, I'm a drug addict that needs help because I used to enjoy doing a thing you don't like to do. Nobody here is insulting you and yet this is how you reply to people. I'm the one that needs help yet you attack people who just want to talk to you. cmonBruh

Who the hell posts like that? I didn't even see your text.

I was hoping that I quoted a post from you that it would show up in your notifications. w/e sorry that it didn't.
I put it in a spoiler for formatting reasons. This time I won't.

When you're negative even on hit most of the time?

shhhhhhhh nobody knows that. Nah but that does need to be addressed. Especially guard breaks. Give us better + frames lmaoooo

Ever think about keyboard players using WASD for movement? Or hitbox players? Diagonal counters are needlessly difficult to execute for no reason. On most keyboards it's actually impossible because only so many keys register at a time. S+A+hold won't register on my laptop - I have to plug in a controller or stick or mechanical keyboard.

I've played DOA5 on a Dell standard keyboard and managed to do low holds and high holds pretty okay. Hitbox might be an issue - I've never used it truthfully but doing low and high holds might actually be weird because of where the buttons are placed. I don't even own a mechanical keyboard and don't have too much trouble with the inputs. This is a personal thing, and you're entitled to your opinion but I STILL don't think the problem with the current holding system is the inputs for them. It's how you're "supposed" to apply it, and I'm unsure if the game even tells you well enough for newer players to properly understand.

Literally what are you talking about? DOA1 did it just fine. Low holds could be triggered by both 2H and 1H.

Then in this case make it 4H and 1H for holding, and then 2H can still be used for guarding. DOA1 didn't have a block button so that's why it worked well, and is also why I said what I said before. The block "button" was the hold button. I'm not opposed the the idea, but bruh I just like it how it is and there is no problem with that.

How is the average player supposed to differentiate between 4 different hit levels when there's zero visual indication?

You can say the same for..... Basically every 3D fighter. Tekken has the highest looking mids in the world, and SC has some lows that look like Mids. The difference that's kinda negative for DOA is that you HAVE to know the hit levels to hold, and sometimes shit is a joke (like Gen Fu's entire movelist). Easiest thing to do for DOA6 to help newer people know what's High Mid and Low is do a Tekken/SC/VF where in practice mode it shows you what's a high in the hit effects. DOA doesn't have this and they're SLACKING. Put it in so the game's more understandable. DOA4 had it, but it was kinda wack because it was in the bottom of the screen. Unsure of the rest.

So maybe the issue is the poor instructions the game provides..? Can you not comprehend that?

Why couldn't you just say this in your original post instead of using rhetorical questions and expecting everyone to understand what you meant?The sad thing about forums is that it's mad easy to be misunderstood.

I think Break Holds should become a "super hold" with a fancy animation and require more meter than regular holds. BHs right now look dumb as hell. In the current build, the holds that actually take meter (break holds) look weak AF and that's hilariously bad. I can't believe someone at Team Ninja thought that was a good idea. What the hell were they thinking? The screen turns all dramatic and then... you just flip sides?

Doing like 14 DMG lmaoooooo I agree that's funny currently. You use meter to get a lil frame advantage..... But you do regular holds to take 30% of their health? It's backwards currently.

Well he's gone and we have a meter system now so... why not take advantage of what possibilities this new meter offers? Otherwise it's pointless. If you want to stick to 4-point, ditch the meter and go back to double-direction inputs like arcade DOA2. That made SOME sense and was a deterrent for spamming holds.

Again, I like the meter idea you proposed. I just believe that 4-point *with meter drinking* in critical hold would make it so that
1.) The game has a "somewhat" extent of depth to it.
2.) Because the if holds were 4-point AND drink your meter, people will only throw them out in stun when they think they've got a calculated read. Literally only including this factor into the game provides deterrent for spamming holds every time they get hit. THEN people would actually want to learn the game, because including the Hit Level effects in practice idea that I proposed, AND the frame data system - the game just became a whole lot easier to grasp. I've said it a few times in this wall of replies and I'll say it once more. It's not the amount of points to hold that make DOA difficult. It's just the LEARNING for DOA that's pretty shit. But no fighting game has a perfect practice mode (I don't think??)

The hold system has always had issues - so I guess, let's change absolutely nothing, right? Everyone that hated it in DOA2, 3, 4, 5 will surely come running to play DOA6 with all the same exact problems untouched. Bu-bu-but 4k graphics!!

The hold system is pretty bunk in the fact that you get more damage than you should off of doing them in desperation (complaints you've heard before) etc etc etc. And I STILL think there should be a fat cap on how many holds you can try in stun. Shit just makes DOA look mad dumb and discourages offense, which is one of the reasons for why DOA struggles to be accepted into the top-top e-sports scene, as there's too much guessing involved in the game. Which is understandable with the whole RPS type of thing they've been carrying for literal years, but yeah yeah I think the hold system needs fixes in my opinion.

 

[Raansu]

Disagree. 4-point is already too convoluted for most people.

How is it convoluted?There's 3 hit levels. High, mid and low. Mids are split between punch and kick. That's not convoluted at all. You act like we are playing doa++ with double inputs for each hit level and hit type.

How is the average player supposed to differentiate between 4 different hit levels when there's zero visual indication? Making counters 2-point and having them eat significant meter would make the hold system more accessible to newer and older players alike.

I dunno? Practice? Heaven forbid people put time into a game and learn how to play. Nah, lets just have 1 move and 1 input.....Hell lets just all go play dive kick.

If you want to stick to 4-point, ditch the meter and go back to double-direction inputs like arcade DOA2. That made SOME sense and was a deterrent for spamming holds.

So first you say 4 point is too convoluted, but then you say 6 point makes more sense? At this point I don't even think you know what you're talking about.

It's "hard" because it's fucking stupid. I've played for two decades so I have more strings' hit-levels memorized than most players - doesn't change the fact that the system is stupid as fuck in the first place. Who wants to memorize every hit level of every single hit of a string? Then one day TN goes and changes random hit-levels WITHOUT CHANGING THE ANIMATIONS so now nothing matches anything. Fuck that. That's the laziest and dumbest way to balance shit. The same exact animation in DOA2,3,4 that was a mid can now be a high for no reason - that's absolutely confusing. Looking at you, Ein.

Yes, again, heaven forbid people learn how to play and put some time into training if they want to get good at the game. Oh the horrors of putting time and effort into something to be good at it!

I think Break Holds should become a "super hold" with a fancy animation and require more meter than regular holds. BHs right now look dumb as hell. In the current build, the holds that actually take meter (break holds) look weak AF and that's hilariously bad. I can't believe someone at Team Ninja thought that was a good idea. What the hell were they thinking? The screen turns all dramatic and then... you just flip sides? :lol: :lol: :lol:

BH's counter all levels. They are not supposed to be super powerful or give crazy advantage. They literally exist to deal primarily with FR strings and to force people to burn meter instead of sitting on it to use for BB.

Elitist attitudes like this are exactly why most gamers don't play fighting games. I'm trying to point out a serious issue inexperienced players face and all everyone here can do is go "hurr durr what a scrub lolllllll!!1"

Stating a fact is not being elitist

He's playing exactly how the game told him to. He's following instructions 100% and that gif is the result. So,aybe the issue is the poor instructions the game provides..? Can you not comprehend that?

In no way does DoA teach you to play like that....Not one of the training modes in any of the DoA games teaches you to mash all the buttons at the same time.

WTF?? Are you on meth? Do you need help?

Yes....expecting people to put a modicum of effort into a game and learning how to play means we are all on meth *rolls eyes*

If it's so easy then why is he mashing??

Because apparently he lacks the thought process to press individual buttons and figure out what punch and kick is. Its only 2 buttons, it aint hard.

 

[crapoZK]

Please dead this. This 2-way, 1-way, 3-way, 4-way, 6-way, hold discussion is so damn pointless, you might as well wait for DOA7 to make that proposition. If i'm going to keep it MAD real, it's not happening. This is why I ONLY said it would make sense to make critical holds cost meter in DOA6 because there isn't enough time to change the DOA hold system for DOA6 at this point. The idea was smart and I liked trying to talk civilly and unbiased about it but it became so hArrrDDddD to do that when I either got insulted or snide jabbed for trying to find an idea that meets somewhere in the middle between the two. I wonder what voice I was being read in to be called a drug addict for liking to put effort into a game that I

wait for it

enjoy to play.

Currently finished with discussing the system with people that try too hard to find reasons to justify why DOA6 is a trash game. We don't even have close to 8 hours of fleshed out competitive gameplay for DOA6, but the way DOA6 plays is trash? We don't even know the true extent of how the game can go but DOA6 is trash. If DOA6 turns out to be that, I'll sell it. But what I'm not about to do is act wild. If you don't like how it's looking, please don't buy it.

Just don't buy it. Simple as. Let's not derail the thread.

Anyways, y'all seen Kasumi's 66PK? They brought it back from DOA3 I think. I will find the video.

 

[ryu_highabusa]

This is a personal thing, and you're entitled to your opinion but I STILL don't think the problem with the current holding system is the inputs for them.

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Where did I say that? Fucking christ. Why bother quoting me if you don't even read what you quote? Then I have to argue points I never made. fml I hate this shit. It's totally the smallest minor point but somehow you according to you it's the entire argument. I don't know what post you're reading but it's not mine.

You can say the same for..... Basically every 3D fighter.

What other 3D fighter has a universal hold system? None of them limit your defense options to exclusively holding - every other 3D fighter lets you punish with a move.

Why couldn't you just say this in your original post instead of using rhetorical questions and expecting everyone to understand what you meant?The sad thing about forums is that it's mad easy to be misunderstood.

Not my fault everyone here's a dumbass.

How is it convoluted?There's 3 hit levels. High, mid and low. Mids are split between punch and kick. That's not convoluted at all.

...
That's horribly convoluted.
Try teaching someone who's never played DOA before how to counter and watch how frustrated they get with this stupid system. Or make a Youtube video - since it's so easy, I bet you can explain it in a few minutes and everyone that watches your video will instantly be an expert and land every single hold going forward. Right? ;P

I dunno? Practice? Heaven forbid people put time into a game and learn how to play.

Practice WHAT? There's nothing in the game that allows you to practice holds for different moves. The "practice" is to navigate through the Japanese language-only DOA site, finding the movelist PDFs, then memorizing every string and hit level. There's no way to tell what moves hit where just from simply playing.

So first you say 4 point is too convoluted, but then you say 6 point makes more sense?

Maybe learn to fucking read? Does this, the exact text you quoted, say 6-point or 4-point?

"If you want to stick to 4-point, ditch the meter and go back to double-direction inputs like arcade DOA2. That made SOME sense and was a deterrent for spamming holds."

Try practicing this instead of holds: https://www.hookedonphonics.com/

Stating a fact is not being elitist

Okay, the last time I said this it got deleted but it needs to be said again: the fact that you're too stupid to realize you're being an asshole, doesn't make you less of an asshole.

In no way does DoA teach you to play like that....Not one of the training modes in any of the DoA games teaches you to mash all the buttons at the same time.

Yes, yes it does. None of the training modes in DOA5 show you the basics, they all start off with spamming strings like PPPPP. It doesn't explain the rhyme or reason or how the strings work at all. It never teaches you to just press P once - "free canceling" is considered an advanced technique because the game teaches and encourages people to spam strings. It's immediately apparent when you play against someone who's only done the training.

Its only 2 buttons, it aint hard.

If it "ain't hard" why can't 99% of gamers figure it out? It's not self-explanatory and the game doesn't explain it so... that's kind of a big hurdle that most people would consider "hard."

Currently finished with discussing the system with people that try too hard to find reasons to justify why DOA6 is a trash game. We don't even have close to 8 hours of fleshed out competitive gameplay for DOA6, but the way DOA6 plays is trash? We don't even know the true extent of how the game can go but DOA6 is trash.

DOA5 was trash and DOA6 is just DOA5.1. It plays almost exactly the same and the majority of the FGC ignored DOA5 just like always because it's had the same problems for over a decade. Why are any of these people going to pick up the same game with the same issues as always?

that I
wait for it
enjoy to play.

Yeah, if you enjoy the current system then I feel there's something seriously wrong with you and I'm genuinely concerned for your well being.

Yes, again, heaven forbid people learn how to play and put some time into training if they want to get good at the game.

Here's Diego's movelist; can you tell from inputting these moves where they hit? Can you tell from his animations? Can you pick out a single move and tell me exactly what hit level it is without looking it up somewhere?

Here's five of Diego's moves, can you tell me the exact hit levels you need to counter for every hit? Again, without looking it up somewhere. Do you think the guy who was mashing the controller can tell?

http://imgur.com/J3kDyRZ

 

[crapoZK]

Not going to be replying to much but:

Yeah, if you enjoy the current system then I feel there's something seriously wrong with you and I'm genuinely concerned for your well being.

I should go see a doctor and tell them that I play DOA5 once a month then. You know you don't care about my wellbeing in the slightest.

STOP PUTTING WORDS IN MY MOUTH. Where did I say that? Fucking christ. Why bother quoting me if you don't even read what you quote? Then I have to argue points I never made. fml I hate this shit. It's totally the smallest minor point but somehow you according to you it's the entire argument.

Lord.

I still don't see why you need to speak to me like this. We were never at any point in this thread arguing. You've been chatting to me like I've been warring with you this whole time and I'm just trying to see why I'm deserving of all these insults but it's probably because you think I'm misunderstanding you and lashing out to defend yourself, which I do get. You can see that I like your idea and want to build on it, however (barely even) disagreeing with only ONE aspect of the idea, but you're probably thinking I'm trying to shut you down.

What other 3D fighter has a universal hold system? None of them limit your defense options to exclusively holding - every other 3D fighter lets you punish with a move.

I literally said like 3 words after what you quoted that it's weird for DOA because there are holds involved, which is why it's even more jarring to try and see/understand hit levels by eye.

Here's five of Diego's moves, can you tell me the exact hit levels you need to counter for every hit? Again, without looking it up somewhere. Do you think the guy who was mashing the controller can tell?

Mid Mid, High Mid, Mid. I didn't look it up. I can just tell. If I'm wrong then call me whatever you want for a year.

Anyways, before we get the thread locked let's change the subject my g because you only get start screaming things once someone doesn't agree with what you say. I agreed with like 60-70% of your proposition but once I have my own opinion on (as you said) "totally the smallest minor point", i'm an asshole and a dumbass. Chill out bruv.

PLEASE for the FINAL TIME, New topic.

 

[just_me]

Can you pick out a single move and tell me exactly what hit level it is without looking it up somewhere?

P = high… there… wasn't that hard.

 

[Raansu]

That's horribly convoluted.
Try teaching someone who's never played DOA before how to counter and watch how frustrated they get with this stupid system. Or make a Youtube video - since it's so easy, I bet you can explain it in a few minutes and everyone that watches your video will instantly be an expert and land every single hold going forward. Right? ;P

How is it convoluted? Its 4 fucking inputs. High, mid, low......it doesn't get more simple than that.

Practice WHAT? There's nothing in the game that allows you to practice holds for different moves. The "practice" is to navigate through the Japanese language-only DOA site, finding the movelist PDFs, then memorizing every string and hit level. There's no way to tell what moves hit where just from simply playing.

Fucking what? Why the fuck are you looking at movelists on a website? The training mode in the game gives you the entire movelist and the fucking hit levels. Edit: Not to mention record and replay. You can literally record entire strings and practice holding against it.

DOA5 was trash and DOA6 is just DOA5.1. It plays almost exactly the same and the majority of the FGC ignored DOA5 just like always because it's had the same problems for over a decade. Why are any of these people going to pick up the same game with the same issues as always?

Then why the fuck are you here? Clearly you're not a fan. Seriously I'm done with you.

 

[crapoZK]

he training mode in the game gives you the entire movelist and the fucking hit levels.

Not to mention that there is a "Move Details" display that you can use in every single mode bar Story and Online that literally tells you every single detail about the move. EVEN THE REACH.

You only had to go on the Japanese DOA site in like DOA2 through 4 to figure frame data out like that, and even DOA4 had an option to show hit attributes in practice mode. There's actually a lot in the games that helps you practice against moves but if you point that out you're being elitist my g.

Tekken STILL doesn't have frame-data built into their game and we still don't know if Soul Calibur will. VF does as we already know. I'm struggling to see where this is a DOA-exclusive issue lmaoooo

We are a piano string's thickness away from getting this thread locked. And it's not what I want at all. So it is BEST we change the subject because y'all are moving like animals out here

 

[just_me]

Tekken STILL doesn't have frame-data built into their game and we still don't know if Soul Calibur will.

Pretty sure there was an interview where Okubo said it won't have in-game frame data (one of the Kayane interviews I'd assume… since no one else would ask these kinds of questions lol ) I didn't spot any new Training Mode features in the recent game mode trailer, but didn't pay that much attention tbh.

edit:

Another thing Kayane asks about is if SoulCalibur VI will have in-game frame data. Sadly, Okubo confirms that this will not be in the game (something that the game shares with Tekken 7 as well).

source

 

[crapoZK]

Tbh, you can usually feel things out for SC so frame data in that game really isn't an issue, I'm a somewhat-competent-at-times scrub at that series but I love playing Maxi and will tear things up because he's the only thing I know about the game lmaoooo

My experience with SC is basically the same as playing piano by ear. I can't read the notes well, but I can still do well at it lmaooo

 

[Raansu]

Pretty sure there was an interview where Okubo said it won't have in-game frame data (one of the Kayane interviews I'd assume… since no one else would ask these kinds of questions lol ) I didn't spot any new Training Mode features in the recent game mode trailer, but didn't pay that much attention tbh.

edit:


source

Honestly there's no excuse for that anymore. Kind of sad that they wont add it.

 

[GarryJaune]

wow speak of training mode,DOA5 maybe the best FTG in the world,almost all moves' details are available in move menu,including frames,reaches etc which are usually not available in game among all FTGs.
And the teaching mode is awesome too just like GGXrd,including many high level skills.
I wish this great training mode could be in DOA6 too,please KT keep it.

 

[d3v]

Honestly there's no excuse for that anymore. Kind of sad that they wont add it.

It's Harada. He flat out stated that he doesn't like it giving out frame data and wants players to figure that stuff out themeselves.

 

[Raansu]

It's Harada. He flat out stated that he doesn't like it giving out frame data and wants players to figure that stuff out themeselves.

Eh, even I think that's asking a bit much from players.

 

[crapoZK]

Eh, even I think that's asking a bit much from players.

I mean, they've done it so I guess it isn't xD

 

[ryu_highabusa]

I didn't look it up. I can just tell.

How can you tell??

P = high… there… wasn't that hard.

And how do you know this?

The training mode in the game gives you the entire movelist and the fucking hit levels.

No it fucking doesn't. Where?

Edit: Not to mention record and replay. You can literally record entire strings and practice holding against it.

What are you even talking about?

Not to mention that there is a "Move Details" display that you can use in every single mode bar Story and Online that literally tells you every single detail about the move. EVEN THE REACH.

So the way to counter is to buy every single character, go into training, manually go through EVERY single hit of every single string and read the detailed screen info and memorizing every single move animation? According to Raansu, "it doesn't get more simple than that."

How is it convoluted?

See above. That's your idea of easy to understand?

Then why the fuck are you here? Clearly you're not a fan. Seriously I'm done with you.

lmao you bitched about DOA5 even louder than I did and freaked out and had your account here deleted only to come back. fucking hypocrite

 

[Project Bokuho]

At this point, this argument isn't going anywhere but back and forth. Just drop it and move on. It's already turned toxic.

 

[crapoZK]

How can you tell??

For DOA you can tell a hit level by the way the enemy reacts to the attack.

• In Diego's case, the first mid we saw, The enemy reacted to the move as if they were being hit in the stomach. 6Ps and other mids tend to do this. The second mid was a knee that launches and looks like a slow recovery.
• The high kick is a CLEAR high because when you look at where he's hitting in the air, It would hit a standing opponent over the top of their head.
• The mid in that string was an uppercut. Uppercuts are mid attacks mostly.
• Lastly, the shoulder is a mid because it hit Rig too low in the combo for it to even be a high, and it's definitely not a low bruh xD

So the way to counter is to buy every single character, go into training, manually go through EVERY single hit of every single string and read the detailed screen info and memorizing every single move animation?

Buy every single character??? If you wanna practice a game you better get the full version of it my guy xD (Yes I know you don't like it so nobody is forcing you to buy a soon to be outdated DOA5)
Naotora wasn't worth studying and Mai was....... Interesting to fight against. But you also didn't need to study her too far in depth either i don't think (Truthfully wasn't playing DOA5LR in that time frame, I dropped it when Mai was being played)
To get good or at least a fairly knowledgeable level you gotta do this in every other fighting game, but no you do not have to go through every single move in every single string and do up frame data science.

Here's the thing:
Unlike many 3D fighting games, you can literally feel when something is unsafe in DOA. Like unsafe things in DOA have some mad inactive time and you can look at that and get your throw out to punish. Truthfully in DOA frame data isn't as necessary as it is in Tekken or VF. Making reads with holds is another thing but truthfully doesn't NEED to be done until at a higher level. It's why you see pros just eat combos because it's easier to take the combo damage than to try and guess hold and eating 150% HiC Throw Damage lol.

 

[Raansu]

-No it fucking doesn't. Where?


-What are you even talking about?


-lmao you bitched about DOA5 even louder than I did and freaked out and had your account here deleted only to come back. fucking hypocrite

-Its in the practice mode in the settings.......

-Have you ever played DoA5? No, seriously this isn't a sarcastic question. How do you not know about these features? Have you ever gone into training mode and played with the settings? Go into training mode, turn on record, you can record inputs for the player 2 and then replay those inputs back and practice against it with player 1.

-You're right, I did. I had some major problems back then and only learned later that I suffer from PTSD. I apologized to the staff and back when LR came out I simply just wanted to post a Hitomi guide. Wah gave me a second chance and reinstated my account. I was passionate about DoA then and I'm passionate about it now. Unfortunately back then I was unaware of what was going on with me mentally.

 

[crapoZK]

At this point, this argument isn't going anywhere but back and forth. Just drop it and move on. It's already turned toxic.

I agree.

Here's a new video (Don't expect pro level gameplay tho) of the game without someone speaking frantically over the gameplay.

• Kasumi has received the Hayate effect on her teleports as well. It looks nice. Ref: Her Fatal Rush on connection.
• The Helena player was subconsciously showing us how you can extend the threshold by using FRs in stun. Interesting stuff. Ref: @0:42
• Kasumi's 2H+K KDs on normal hit now? Unsure if it used to always do that, but. There we go.
• You can still mistime your Break Holds in Fatal Stun. Helena misses her Break Hold while being hit by Kasumi's FR. Ref: @0:51
• Could you always punish Helena's H+K with a low throw? Did it always recover crouching??? Ref: @0:57
• (Old news) Bokuho 66P can now be used standing, and launches on NH. (News) However now, it launches higher than it did in the EVO build??
• Break Blow on block is DISGUSTINGLY unsafe. It looks like you can punish a Break Blow with another Break Blow, or your strongest throw. Ref: @1:48
• Kasumi's 6PP knocks down on NH instead of causing SDS when the second hit of the string hits on NH. Nice I guess (Correct me if I'm wrong)
• When the Octopus Tentacle knocks the boat on the left side of the stage, it isn't just a nice stage transition. It's a cue for you to get extra combo damage, like the people who push you on the Throwdown Stage. Notice the stun bar on on the health gauge. Ref: @2:05
• That Danger Zone can be triggered an infinite amount of times if it's not already used in a combo. Ref: @2:14

There's a Zack vs Leifang video too that I will dissect. Just waiting for someone to reply in the thread so I don't have to double post.