KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
Was there any new gameplay footage shown for Helena during TGS ?
DOA6 Gameplay Thread
- Thread starter crapoZK
- Start date
Raansu
Well-Known Member
What exactly do you feel will make it trash?
GarryJaune
Well-Known Member
she barely changed,comparing to EVO demo
no FT,no 33P in normal stance,no damage buff.
He probably just wants to hold out of everything like it's DOA4. Fuck that game l0l
Macca Beam
Well-Known Member
i don't get this echo chamber mentality of nuking threads with even the slightest amount of criticism or non-sugarcoated remarks.
if everything is just met with "it's not final lol", then this entire section doesn't even need to exist before release date. things we like AND hate, everything is subject to change. nothing we discuss here at this point in time will ever matter.
yes, everyone knows the game isn't final. doesn't mean they can't comment on what has been unfolding in front of their eyes.
if everything is just met with "it's not final lol", then this entire section doesn't even need to exist before release date. things we like AND hate, everything is subject to change. nothing we discuss here at this point in time will ever matter.
yes, everyone knows the game isn't final. doesn't mean they can't comment on what has been unfolding in front of their eyes.
ryu_highabusa
Well-Known Member
Long-time series issues like the hold system that they refuse to fix. A lack of real advantage. A lack of a reason to attack. DOA6, right now, is still best played by just holding block and throw punishing. With the removal of additional systems like the SE, which is what GarryJaune was complaining about here means that it's an even simpler DOA5. I'm not opposed to removing the SE and some of the other things so long as we get other positive changes but I haven't seen any.
That's the exact opposite of what I've proposed, you fucking idiot.
No, it's not. There's a thing called being "overchoiced".
This is what I hate about DOA5 and DOA5's online mode. Yes, they gave people so many options because they were trying to appease everyone. But it's overwhelming, particularly for newer players. They don't know what anything is. Decide on a standard ruleset and make it permanent, no options, and balance the game around that. I just want to play the game. Set the rules, Team Ninja, you're the dungeon master.
In the arcade, the options were hidden from the player and you could just jump into a game. I hate how many menus and options I have to jump through before I'm actually in a match. Remember in the arcade when you put in your money, hit the button, picked your character, and you were playing instantly?
Now it's menu > choices > menu > choices > menu > choices> menu > choices > menu > menu > choices > wait in lobby with 6 people while we spectate 2 (as if we only had one machine to share between the 8 of us)... I've spent infinitely more time in menus, lobbies, and option screens than actually playing the game... I kind of went off on a tangent.
This is why I feel they should go back to 2-point (and
Now if I build up a full gauge, the new "super hold"is also easy to understand. (why isn't it "special hold" if I'm using thespecial button?? or rename it the "super gauge")
Now they can change "special/super hold" to be an super elaborate animation with fancy graphical effects. Kind of like how the "super blow" animation does this. For example, move Hayabusa's Izuna counter to"super hold" status and give it some of the "ki" effects from the trailer for extra flash.
Defensive and stronger options being tied to a bar, in order to prevent spamming, is a common theme among many games. So this is an easy concept for players coming from other games, not just fighting games, to understand. Much simpler than explaining difference between high hold, mid-punch hold, and mid-kick hold. Please show the DOA5 hold tutorial to a brand new player and see what happens. Every time I try to teach a new player to hold, the first time they manage to do the input it is always the wrong level and frustrates the player.
A 2-way or 1-way hold system that uses gauge is the way to go, I feel. Most players, even myself, do not want to memorize every character's string hit levels - this is complex and it changes every game and from patch-to-patch anyway. Some moves that hit mid in DOA2 now hit high in DOA5LR - but I have 18 years of muscle memory so I can't stop doing the wrong hold. It's a small frustrating balance change that didn't actually fix anything. Make holds simple to execute but shift the focus to be about timing and meter management and most players will easily understand.
Also, the way to make things easy to learn is to use familiar concepts. Use familiar terms. Standardization makes things easier for everyone to understand. The game doesn't need to be "dumbed down", things just need to be explained clearly in plain English. I'm sure things like "Break Gauge" and "Break Blow" and "Fatal Rush" etc all sound 'cool' to Japanese people but it's confusing on top of an already difficult genre. As a brand new player, would you think "Break Blows" and the"Special Button" are related at all? Probably not. I'm still trying to figure out what the hell a "Break Blow" is... Is it just a "Super Move"? And it needs "super/special meter?" Then fucking call it that, please. Christ. That eliminates so much frustration.
Honestly.To this day I still don't really understand Power Blows, Crushes and... I can't even remember what the all the names of all the weird techniques from DOA5 are... much less have them figured out enough to use. Sometimes I go for that stun that shakes the screen but I cannot for the life of me remember what it is called. I can read frame data though. Because frame data is the same across all the fucking games. See how that works? I'm not even joking. I am so not joking. I hope to god they read this.
Like, I am all aboard the "gauge" train and think it could possibly be the best thing to ever happen to DOA, if it's balanced correctly by launch.
Take "Super Moves" from other fighting games, who cares if it's copying. It's not shameful to adopt popular standards. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. DOA started out as a VF clone, right? Just take all the best parts and put them together in a way that makes sense.
We need more than one string off of the-button. Make them flashy but give players more strings. They can go based off of old DOA1 inputs for some starter ideas. You know how certain strings in DOA1 and VF use
Didn't have to use that language truthfully but go aheaddddd
You had some good points there tho. I'll edit my response in soon. Stay tuned.
I find 1/2-way holds a bit...noobish/scrubby honestly. The meter concept is indeed way to counter the noob/scrub side though. I guess I prefer 4-way holds in general because I like the challenge.
Didn't need to edit it on the old post. Here's my shtuff. Skip to TL;DR if you not ready for this WALL of text
While I do like the idea of hold attempts costing meter. Having 2H to hold low wouldn't work because then we can't block low lmaoooo. A better work around would be that the holds would still be 4-point, and only uses meter in stun, as making reads with holds at the highest level exists. Using meter to make good reads is trash, but punishing my meter because I'm mashing holds in stun is a very good idea, and will stop people throwing them out so recklessly in a panicked attempt to reset the turn. Make it so that trying to critical hold 3 times in stun takes out your meter completely. Maybe this should actually be considered. However now that stun-launch is back maybe things will be different.
TN shouldn't be focused on how to make the game easier (Though they lowkey are with the auto combos and that, which I have no issues with at all). Then we get a SFV scenario (gameplay-wise) which nobody wants. They have to work on the flaws in their current system. If somebody wants to get good at DOA then they must accept it for what it is and try to understand that the hold system is kind of hard. I just don't see the point in having the holds specifically changed because new players don't want to learn. It's too many people that want results with no work or effort required to get said results. If you want to hold right, then learn the game xD (Really not meaning to sound like a "Git gud kid" guy here). That's like someone quitting Tekken because they can't KBD. Or somebody being frustrated with Street Fighter because they cant do a super. Everybody wants to be a pro, without having to put in the amount of effort a pro does to become a pro xD.
The inclusion of the Break Hold helps people hold without knowing the hit levels which is good. However you can only do it 2 times a round and up to like 8 times a match due to how quick the meter builds in DOA6. 3-way option makes it easier to to understand, and I honestly don't mind it if people use it. If you can use it online which I highly doubt then SHIDDDDD i just might use it too lmaoooo
But yes, make it cost meter in stun. Too many people have major panic holding habits, myself included.
Teaching a new person how to play DOA takes a very baby-step type of method. You don't jump them into holding straight away bruh you gotta make them feel good by putting them into combo practice, show them the controls. Let em beat up AI for a couple minutes or hours, then by like 2 hours of them saying "yeah this game is cool", BAM show em the triangle system and LASTLY how to hold and the consequences of trying to hold. Gotta ease em into it. Can't be like "This is DOA. NOW HOLD THIS STRING" bruh anyone would be confused about it. I'd be a damn good coach.
Learning the string hit levels is what makes practicing this game worthwhile though. If a person doesn't want to learn that then they don't have to. Nobody's forcing them. But if they want to go to the next level, then by all means they should do so. DOING the hold isn't what's hard about DOA though. It's the hit levels as you said. And if everyone can hold you without there being some sort of "difficulty" (or meter management like you said) then why even attack lmaooo. It would be about getting the first grab in at that point. I do agree that the timing should still be shortened. You used to be able to throw out a hold for like like 20 frames and still hold something afterwards which I do find annoying.
TL;DR:
This is why I feel they should go back to 2-point (
While I do like the idea of hold attempts costing meter. Having 2H to hold low wouldn't work because then we can't block low lmaoooo. A better work around would be that the holds would still be 4-point, and only uses meter in stun, as making reads with holds at the highest level exists. Using meter to make good reads is trash, but punishing my meter because I'm mashing holds in stun is a very good idea, and will stop people throwing them out so recklessly in a panicked attempt to reset the turn. Make it so that trying to critical hold 3 times in stun takes out your meter completely. Maybe this should actually be considered. However now that stun-launch is back maybe things will be different.
TN shouldn't be focused on how to make the game easier (Though they lowkey are with the auto combos and that, which I have no issues with at all). Then we get a SFV scenario (gameplay-wise) which nobody wants. They have to work on the flaws in their current system. If somebody wants to get good at DOA then they must accept it for what it is and try to understand that the hold system is kind of hard. I just don't see the point in having the holds specifically changed because new players don't want to learn. It's too many people that want results with no work or effort required to get said results. If you want to hold right, then learn the game xD (Really not meaning to sound like a "Git gud kid" guy here). That's like someone quitting Tekken because they can't KBD. Or somebody being frustrated with Street Fighter because they cant do a super. Everybody wants to be a pro, without having to put in the amount of effort a pro does to become a pro xD.
The inclusion of the Break Hold helps people hold without knowing the hit levels which is good. However you can only do it 2 times a round and up to like 8 times a match due to how quick the meter builds in DOA6. 3-way option makes it easier to to understand, and I honestly don't mind it if people use it. If you can use it online which I highly doubt then SHIDDDDD i just might use it too lmaoooo
But yes, make it cost meter in stun. Too many people have major panic holding habits, myself included.
Teaching a new person how to play DOA takes a very baby-step type of method. You don't jump them into holding straight away bruh you gotta make them feel good by putting them into combo practice, show them the controls. Let em beat up AI for a couple minutes or hours, then by like 2 hours of them saying "yeah this game is cool", BAM show em the triangle system and LASTLY how to hold and the consequences of trying to hold. Gotta ease em into it. Can't be like "This is DOA. NOW HOLD THIS STRING" bruh anyone would be confused about it. I'd be a damn good coach.
Learning the string hit levels is what makes practicing this game worthwhile though. If a person doesn't want to learn that then they don't have to. Nobody's forcing them. But if they want to go to the next level, then by all means they should do so. DOING the hold isn't what's hard about DOA though. It's the hit levels as you said. And if everyone can hold you without there being some sort of "difficulty" (or meter management like you said) then why even attack lmaooo. It would be about getting the first grab in at that point. I do agree that the timing should still be shortened. You used to be able to throw out a hold for like like 20 frames and still hold something afterwards which I do find annoying.
TL;DR:
- I like the idea of critical holds costing meter. Noting it.
- Don't make holds 2 way
- Teach new players the fun way and not the technical way xD
- People need to put the work in to be good and not just expect to be pro level out the box
- We have to stop mashing holds.
Last edited:
You're being an opinionated jerk. What gives you the right to call anyone an idiot when everything you say is clearly based off your own preferences?
But your consistent insult hurls do not merit you any extra credibility on your opinions. I'd suggest you stop, this isn't a warzone -- but a forum. You are free to post your thoughts, but you aren't allowed to call people idiots, especially when they haven't attacked you. I think you are smart, and you can make some solid points but you need to keep your attitude in check and think about what you're saying.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
The hold wasn't an issue with the series till DoA4. The stun game in DoA6 seemingly being more like DoA3 is a positive in that aspect and SE being gone creates more situations that allow's setups to remove the hold from certain stuns. This is a good thing to me. Yes, the hold is a core part of DoA, but it became obnoxious because of doA4's stun system that still partially existed in 5.
Its unfortunate, but it doesn't seem likely we'll ever get a system like DoA3 again where many moves created frame traps/advantage. In general DoA has always played this way with being more defensive. DoA3 was the only DoA to change things up for the better, but it is what it is. Its just a different approach, it doesn't make it bad, and there are still some frame traps in DoA5 and likely will exist in DoA6. Yes its only like +1 or +2 most of the time, but its all you really need in this game.
ryu_highabusa
Well-Known Member
When people make up positions for me and put false statements in my mouth, they're fucking idiots and I will call them out as such.
Nah, the FGC complained about the hold system even with DOA2. At least in the arcade it was 4-point double-direction, that was actually kind of balanced. Things got screwed up when it got dumbed down to single-direction 3-point for the console versions.
Last edited:
GarryJaune
Well-Known Member
chill dude,just focus on game system
people may misunderstand your opinion(like my previous opinions),that's fine,you can argue that which is your right.
but personnal insult is not needed bro
Last edited:
d3v
Well-Known Member
And now for your regularly scheduled reminder that the biggest fighting game at Evo runs alot on chained autocombos. DBFZ's basic combo route is 2M, 5M, jump cancel, air M autocombo, smash up, super dash, M autcobombo, jump cancel, M autocombo, smash down, land into super or oki. Autocombos are objectively better than regular chains in DBFZ due to the fact that autocombos have a slight amount of homing. Yet nobody badmouths the game about it.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
lol ya I've got a few ideas in my head for Hitomi, but I'll just have to wait in see how it pans out when I get my hands on the game.
human013
Well-Known Member
People lost it a bit. It was pretty tame during the initial discussion.chill dude,just focus on game system
people may misunderstand your opinion(like my previous opinions),that's fine,you can argue that which is your right.
but personnal insult is not needed bro
As I said before, the issue seems to only exist here. No one else besides the 3D community has issues with auto combos which is weird because it is the one thing that is the most similar to 3D fighters. You press one button multiple times to get a string and during the string you can stop whenever you want. Is that not what we do in 3D fighters?
For example, a simple Hayate combo: Launch, 5PPP (not doing the final P attack), 33KK.
ryu_highabusa
Well-Known Member
DOA1 is every newbie's favorite DOA, right?
How do you account for this?
Manage what? The meter doesn't do anything.
Raansu
Well-Known Member
Honestly, there's nothing nice I can say about that. DoA's inputs are literally ppp, kkk, pp6p etc......DoA's inputs are not difficult. People who mash buttons like that....ya sorry I really have nothing nice to say about it. Its not hard to find the punch and kick button even if you just want to mindlessly mash. It aint rocket science to figure out to press the attack buttons instead of pressing random buttons and hitting the throw button over and over.