DOA 5 Tina Thread

[Dr. Teeth]

Awesome. Thanks for the help, Magnus. I totally never thought about the Rodeo Hold. I'll give that a shot. I've tried but always seemed to get stuffed. Maybe I'm hitting it at the wrong time. I appreciate all your suggestions.

Rodeo throw is a good tool to use, but I don't think it's all that useful on defense against fast characters. Unlike defensive holds, offensive holds don't come out instantly, and the faster characters have a surprisingly easy time knocking you out of the rodeo throw before the active frames for the hold start up. Also, Christie and Kasumi both have throw mixups in some of their strings so if you make a bad read against them with it, you'll be eating a good chunk of damage. You never know though. Throw it out every once and a while and see how your opponent reacts.

Defensively, I think your best options for dealing with speedy offense would most likely be 1p and 1k since they crush highs, and the sidestep if they're not using moves that track. 33P is also a good tool since it ducks under highs and rewards you with a launch, but it's unsafe and kinda slow so use with caution. 6P is good if you think they're gonna go low and like Magnus said it can lead to a lot if it hits. Tina's like Bass in the sense that faster characters tend to be her worst matchups since she has limited answers to their pressure outside of holds. You kind of just have to be patient and look for something that can be crushed, sidestepped, or throw punished like Magnus mentioned.

 

[Rayartz]

I'm starting to get the hang of using Tina now thanks to the awesome combo section for laying out some options for me.
I'm still playing it kinda SF style, keep back - poke - hit confirm combo into CB and juggle
I really like CB> 9K, 9PK, Air Grab/or/dash forward PPK especially near danger zones or the wall
any better options?

I'm also having a really hard time dealing with people that just mash buttons (seems a lot of her attacks are just a hair slower than other characters so she gets beat out) and with her wake up game.
Seems like if I tech roll I typically get hit, especially against Jann Lee and other characters with fast normals like him.
I've adopted the habit of doing her dash throw on wake up, seems to work a good bit of the time and sets up a combo throw. Any other good options? I'm not the kind of player that has to hit a button every chance I get so doing wake up moves bugs the hell out of me, I rather block!

At any rate I'm still getting blown up a good bit, but I'm also winning my fair share.
when I do win with her it feels really good, when I win with Kasumi its just eh another win.

 

[Doa_Eater]

Man, i caught Rikuto playing a bit Tina on stream, instant inspiration!

66pp into 9pk allows giant swing air throw on high critical.

 

[Rayartz]

Man, i caught Rikuto playing a bit Tina on stream, instant inspiration!

66pp into 9pk allows giant swing air throw on high critical.

Giant swing is Half Circle Foward + T correct?
I thought I read on here somewhere you could connect that on some juggles but I've never gotten it off.
I'll have to look this fella up, I really only know SF players aside from Kayane who plays both.
If I upload a few fights would anyone care to C&C?


it'll be a few days but thought I'd ask.
I'm still up for matches -- I've never seen another Tina online yet. Mostly Shotos-- I mean err Ninjas(lol), Hitomi and Jann Lee; sprinkle in a little Mila for new flavor but other then that pretty much the same characters as with any game people are afraid to branch out from the norm.

I love Tina though, she feels dilberate. You can't just mash buttons with her.

 

[Doa_Eater]

Giant swing is Half Circle Foward + T correct?
I thought I read on here somewhere you could connect that on some juggles but I've never gotten it off.
I'll have to look this fella up, I really only know SF players aside from Kayane who plays both.
If I upload a few fights would anyone care to C&C?


it'll be a few days but thought I'd ask.
I'm still up for matches -- I've never seen another Tina online yet. Mostly Shotos-- I mean err Ninjas(lol), Hitomi and Jann Lee; sprinkle in a little Mila for new flavor but other then that pretty much the same characters as with any game people are afraid to branch out from the norm.

I love Tina though, she feels dilberate. You can't just mash buttons with her.

Yes that half circle is the giant swing but the air time is much more stricter that the normal air throw, so practice in timing is a must.

Also i play on PSN as that's all i have so if anyone wants to add me fell free too.(European) I main Tina with Lisa second and have played a decent amount of both Tina and Lisa solid level players and friended them for lobby matches.

 

[Rayartz]

Alrighty, So either Lei Fang is a handful for Tina or I'm just a loss on how to fight her.
I was definately getting out poked albeit my spacing in this 3d figther is nothing like my 2d so I wasn't getting outside her range very well but moves like:
3K,P and 4K,7P were just getting stuffed
Any tips?

On a plus side I'm getting the Giant Swing now, adds a good bit of damage too
my jaw dropped when I landed 6P,K,8P, CB, 9K, 9PK > giant swing, and it looks sexy as hell.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

Pokes, spacing, and defense in general is Leifang's game. If you're playing a Leifang player who knows what they're doing you'll have a very hard time trying to out space them, since you're effectively playing the game the way they want you to. The best way to deal with the matchup is to go in and try to get HC damage. Keep in mind that most Fang players will be fishing for opportunities to use her parries and advanced holds, so try to bait them out by conditioning them with strings like 3pp and free canceling and throwing them when you think they'll try and parry. Some Fangs also have a tendency to throw out parries when they feel pressured. If they fall into that category, use offensive holds and safe moves to bully them and look for the hold. When you see it, throw for great victory. You really have to watch yourself around her sabakis though. If a Fang player connects with one when you're going for a throw, you'll eat HC damage.

 

[shinryu]

The more I'm playing the more I'm coming to like Tina from BT; I wish she had a safer way into BT since 4k and 44p face guaranteed throw punishment and 3p+kf is such a huge risk, but once she's there she's in a very good position.

7pp has been discussed, it gives you an interesting turn stagger but nothing guaranteed. I think it's better to use 7p to a mid option myself, or just use k as it nets the superior unholdable turnaround to 6f+k.

7k is amazing. It's an 11 frame mid that gives you the same crumple stun from critical as 66k, so you have approximately a million years to to turn around and throw or CB or 8p or whatever you want. The crumple also gives you a ground throw if they don't tech and they fall out of it, so you can safely whiff a throw or just hover over them and at the very least get a pressure situation, if not more damage. I'd like to experiment with whiff 44p into 7k, and I think it's probably the best option on block of 44p if your opponent is smart enough to know to try to crouch block from there.

4p would be better if it tech crouched and it's 15 frames, but in a stun situation it gives you the same stun as hold 3p, which is advantageous. It also has the same double hammer followup.

There's also a pretty legit mixup between p+k/h and 8f+p from BT; it's a bit scrubby at first glance but it does work and does give decent damage (either p+k + ground throw for 35-5ish or 60 from the throw, not figuring for counters). Off a connected 44p p+k should beat anything easily and I think will usually combo, while off 4k you won't combo and you have to enter it instantaneously, but it will still beat even a 9 frame jab. I don't believe it will combo in either instance but even on block you get a guard break so it's not a terrible option. The cancel might not be a bad idea every once in a while since it's very risky to try to counter out of the situation, so ideally you land with some frame advantage and maybe can 7k or throw a bad counter attempt. Definitely the rare third option though.

Overall, this gives Tina a lot of flexibility for combo extension off a stun. She's always got a good mid punch and mid kick option (4k and 44p) as well as 8p, and once in BT you can go for a high extender (7p), an unholdable stun (k), two very solid mid stuns (7k and 4p) or the p+k and 8f+p mixup. She does lose some throw possibilities, but if anything this should encourage counters and a hi-counter BT throw is still close to 70 damage. I don't know if you have the frames to turn and throw but I will check that out.

 

[TRI Mike]

I was talking about the differences between grapplers in the game last night with some friends. From my experience, I see Bass as the best of them with Bayman as a close second. Mainly because both of them can ignore the stun system and CB system and still deal huge damage by raw grabs and small strings that guarantee dangerous ground throws (which give frame advantage to Bass and great damage to Bayman).

In Tina's case, she's solid, viable but relies too much on reacting quickly to what the opponents does. I know this is fairly true for the entire cast but the thing is that Tina gets to CB really fast, mostly in 4 hits. If you let her do that, she takes half of your life with a juggle-into-air grab combo. She's one of the only character's I've found who can actually juggle AND air grab heavy-weight characters for 50% life-bar. Now, if the opponents decides to hold too much, fine, they can deal some damage to Tina but if she reacts quickly enough, she takes another 50% life-bar with hi-counter throws like WR or or both of her multi-part throws. She's very dangerous and while more unsafe than in DOA3 and 4, still safe enough to be able to start a solid offensive on "faster" characters like Jann Lee, Hayate and the like.

 

[Doa_Eater]

Tina should have more offensive holds, not new just make more of her existing throws like Fisherman's buster and one of the chain links an offensive hold.

 

[shinryu]

I was talking about the differences between grapplers in the game last night with some friends. From my experience, I see Bass as the best of them with Bayman as a close second. Mainly because both of them can ignore the stun system and CB system and still deal huge damage by raw grabs and small strings that guarantee dangerous ground throws (which give frame advantage to Bass and great damage to Bayman).

In Tina's case, she's solid, viable but relies too much on reacting quickly to what the opponents does. I know this is fairly true for the entire cast but the thing is that Tina gets to CB really fast, mostly in 4 hits. If you let her do that, she takes half of your life with a juggle-into-air grab combo. She's one of the only character's I've found who can actually juggle AND air grab heavy-weight characters for 50% life-bar. Now, if the opponents decides to hold too much, fine, they can deal some damage to Tina but if she reacts quickly enough, she takes another 50% life-bar with hi-counter throws like WR or or both of her multi-part throws. She's very dangerous and while more unsafe than in DOA3 and 4, still safe enough to be able to start a solid offensive on "faster" characters like Jann Lee, Hayate and the like.

I think that's one of the reasons setting up the crumple stun (66k, BT 7k) is so important for her (and to a lesser extent the safer throw-whiff stuns like off hold 3p); it's a situation where it's really up to your opponent to decide what to do and you can delay for quite some time. Also, after a hard knockdown, your opponent really doesn't have good options; rising kicks lead to either low throws or the advanced mid kick hold (which can set up for something like 145 damage total under the right circumstances) or another attack/throw mixup. I realize most every character gets something like this but it seems like it plays particularly into Tina's strengths especially vs. rising kicks.

Also, I saw mentioned in the other thread that she gets two ground grabs off of a high counter hard knockdown? If that's true that's one place she can make up some raw damage none of the other grapplers can except maybe Lisa.

 

[Doa_Eater]

I mean seriously guys what's the point of having two chain throw grabs that are both normal throws. I mean both Bayman and Lei-Fang got the switch why should Tina.

Anyway soon S rank Tina on PSN.

 

[TRI Mike]

I don't like her OH game very much to be honest. 66T isn't very good to me.

 

[shinryu]

I don't like her OH game very much to be honest. 66T isn't very good to me.

Unfortunately it does seem like you need to use it from a good distance or from advantage, but I do think it's still a valuable part of the mixup. With the linearity of most of her get-in attacks (6f+k, 46p, 236p, etc.) you do need something to mix up in case of holds or sidesteps.

46f+p is an interesting case; I think there's some untapped potential there. First off, it tech crouches very quickly in the animation, so if you anticipate a high attack you have a good chance of ducking it and catching the next attack mid string on high counter. I don't know if you can get away with charging it for any length of time though, I may have to record some scenarios and see what you can and can't get away with.

Also, this may be a bit gimmicky, but I had initially thought the charge ability was kind of useless in this game since the charge ability for 46p had been removed, but I am actually thinking better of that now. Specifically, the 1p+k charge looks similar enough that I think in some cases it may be a useful mixup. 1p+k is unfortunately shit on block (-13 or something stupid) but improves to a much better +17 guard break if you have the PB on tap. So it might be worth going for the mixup out of a long stun (hopefully catching them holding or low throwing incorrectly as they come out of the stun), or very rarely out in the open, especially if you have the PB option. I don't know if it's something people would catch on reaction.

 

[shinryu]

So how the fuck do you do anything about people running away? It seems like anything she tries running just gets beat out. This game needs a Tekken shoulder ram or she needs to be able to tackle from the run or something, goddamn. I wouldn't mind trying to bait and punish but oh wait, online, everything's safe... Even offline, this seems like a problem.

 

[Doa_Eater]

So how the fuck do you do anything about people running away? It seems like anything she tries running just gets beat out. This game needs a Tekken shoulder ram or she needs to be able to tackle from the run or something, goddamn. I wouldn't mind trying to bait and punish but oh wait, online, everything's safe... Even offline, this seems like a problem.

How much running away? Two back dashes or something ala Ayane spins and Kasumi back flips?

 

[Renarism]

I wish her back and forward punch (the tackle) could be done while running that'd be great

 

[Doa_Eater]

And her running throw to be an offensive hold.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

And her running throw to be an offensive hold.

It was in 3.1. No idea why they changed that.

 

[shinryu]

How much running away? Two back dashes or something ala Ayane spins and Kasumi back flips?

The second one. I want to be two back dashes away from someone, that's Tina's happy place if she doesn't have a stun combo going. Across the screen, I can't do shit to get in close if they want to run away all day and since it's incredibly hard to punish their spam it's their game entirely. MIla's got more or less the same problem, but at least she has the 66k and 66p, not shitty-ass slow and unsafe idiot dive and drop kick. Running OH would sure help.

Shining wizard: I think the logic is that it gives you a throw on running in at a fairly close range and is a better punish for holds when rushing down people after say a teched 46p, but I'd rather have an OH for either scenario for sure. Also, you're at like -15 if they tech it, so that's really great. I don't think you're close enough to really be punished. But it's almost as bad to lose your advantage like that.

Related note: is there any use for 236P or 236K at all? If they were unholdable or guard broke or something, sure, but you're at like -17 after both of them or something ridiculous. It's not even like they do big damage or guarantee a ground throw or anything. I can't think of any reason to use them except maybe range on 236p.