Community Discussion for Tournament Rules

[Jefffcore]

Three majors and some locals?(Correct me if I'm wrong) Really? I'm sorry bro we need more than that.
so no gets fucked over. I mean no character has an unfair advantage on that stage. It just seems you don't want to deal with it.
Not bad. LOL, but we're going smash bros now? Look man these are cool, but let's not ban stages that makes the game boring and uninteresting to watch.

LOL dude this isn't marvel or smash with items and hazards on. That is random this isn't that random.

What are you talking about? Do you know how many tournaments (locals and majors) the game has had? A tournament is a tournament and it's not a very difficult thing to see how stupid EotE is.

The stage itself makes the game stupid.

 

[DrDogg]

So more people will want to play the game competivley if the community gets as ban happy?

More people will want to play the game competitively if it gets less random. Removing the stages that allow more randomness to occur is one possible way to do this. If it doesn't work out, then we had ONE tournament that tried those rules. Not a big loss if you ask me.

What is the benefit of leaving the stages playable? Everyone is quick to say we shouldn't ban the stages, but no one has stated what advantage there is to leaving them playable that we don't get with the other stages.

The only level banned in DOA4(or any DOA in history) was the dinosaur level, because it had random dangerzones. No we're banning full ice levels, levels that allow guaranteed damage set ups(static dangerzones), level that's half water and regular land(Helena had psudo infinites in DOA2 water), and a circular level with damaging walls?

DOA5 has a larger competitive scene than any previous DOA game. It also has the ability to grow to an even larger scene. In order to do that, we have to address the issues we can, and to me, that means possibly banning some of these stages.

Let me ask you this. If you could make it to a future IPL event with ease (no money or time issues). Would you opt not to go simply because those few stages were banned?

 

[BlackxxxMamba]

All I know is that when I play SC5, I never lose to a lesser fighting game player. In DOA5 though.... Well, we all saw what happened there....

 

[DR2K]

More people will want to play the game competitively if it gets less random. Removing the stages that allow more randomness to occur is one possible way to do this. If it doesn't work out, then we had ONE tournament that tried those rules. Not a big loss if you ask me.

What is the benefit of leaving the stages playable? Everyone is quick to say we shouldn't ban the stages, but no one has stated what advantage there is to leaving them playable that we don't get with the other stages.



DOA5 has a larger competitive scene than any previous DOA game. It also has the ability to grow to an even larger scene. In order to do that, we have to address the issues we can, and to me, that means possibly banning some of these stages.

Let me ask you this. If you could make it to a future IPL event with ease (no money or time issues). Would you opt not to go simply because those few stages were banned?

I'd go regardless, but I'd be increadibly disheartened since I love the dynamic that some of these levels bring to matches. Home in particular is one of the few stages where I'm not afraid to attack.

 

[Berzerk!]

I'd keep Home as well. Player's on fault for positioning themselves with back to wall, objects. Great spectator stage, lots of things exploding.

 

[MasterHavik]

What are you talking about? Do you know how many tournaments (locals and majors) the game has had? A tournament is a tournament and it's not a very difficult thing to see how stupid EotE is.

The stage itself makes the game stupid.

Yes I am 100% aware of how any tournaments this game has been at. I just think it's premature because we're still figuring this game out. Hell we haven't even finish a decent tier list and match up chart for this game dude. This is jumping the gun for no reason. We don't know a lot of things yet. And don't try to play like we do.

You misunderstand me. I agree that the better player wins more. But the percentage is extremely low compared to any other fighting game. When you throw in EotE, that percentage drops even more.

Do you know how many "unseeable" lows this game has? Do you know how many of them stun on NH when playing on EotE that don't normally stun on NH? All of them. It basically gives the average to below average player a higher chance of success against a more skilled opponent. There's a reason why people online will pick that stage deliberately after losing to a superior player.

You can debate banning the other stages, but there isn't really a valid argument to keep EotE in tournament play. You don't lose anything by removing it.

I do know about all the unseeable lows in this game and what they do on ends of the earth. And that one little thing doesn't turn the tables. I feel that is people being salty they lost and blame it on the game for an opponent victory. Like I said man I would be losing to mashing scrubs online as well when I play on that stage. But I don't lose to them because i know the stage and I know what i need to do on it to win.

Level your game before you star blaming things on the game man. I'm not saying you suck or anything. If I can blow up people online on that stage then you can too. It's about getting better and developing the metagame instead of crying wolf to every little thing you lose to.

 

[Roroko]

Let me be clear with my reasons for stage banning.

Could a tournament run well allowing all but EotE? Sure. But would you really miss out on anything with EotE, Sanctuary, Home and Depth banned? Would it really change the tournament so much that the top 8 would no longer be a good representation of the best players there?

You'd still have the following stages to play on:

...

I believe that these stages allow for variety and a clear representation of the environmental dangers that separate DOA from most other fighters. I don't think you gain a lot by adding the banned stages, and at the very least, I don't see this being detrimental to the tournament scene if we try it at one major.

Let me ask you this. If you could make it to a future IPL event with ease (no money or time issues). Would you opt not to go simply because those few stages were banned?

That's not how banning works. Saying there's no reason not to ban something isn't a justification to ban it. The onus is on you to provide a reason for a ban, not for everyone else to come up with a reason why it shouldn't be banned.

I've been on the receiving end of 90% health combos on Depth and Home. Combos that are basically exclusive to those stages.

Depth and Home are some of the most exciting stages in the game because of the damage potential imo.

And what do you mean by randomness? Everything is in the same place each time the map loads.

If anything, I agree with this:

The argument could be made to ban plenty of stages for various poor design decisions. Home you can be glitched through the wall right at the start (player two), Sanctuary restarting you in water, player two starting with their back to the RPG in Hotzone or whatever it's called, player one (IIRC) starting with their back to the cliffhanger on Scramble if the generators have blown, and it goes on. Obviously you can make the argument that the affected player has to move but that's an extra consideration that the other player doesn't have. It's like starting with an advantage, which shouldn't happen in fighters if you don't have to work for it. I never thought I'd have a complaint about spawn logic outside of shooters lol.

There's no reason why P1 should start at a disadvantage on Scramble after the generators are blown. Even the burning street stage after the cliffhanger is ugly as. I'd say ban that if it weren't one of the few night time stages.

 

[Tones]

There's no reason why P1 should start at a disadvantage on Scramble after the generators are blown. Even the burning street stage after the cliffhanger is ugly as. I'd say ban that if it weren't one of the few night time stages.

Bayman's face is ugly but you don't see anyone wanting to ban him. After the top has been fubar, one character has more juggle/damage potential while the other has more evasiveness. Below, there's a nice mix of even ground with a few pot holes. There are walls and dangerzones, it's a nice balanced.

Online tournaments, ban this stage due to the lag the lower stage gives but leave it there for offline tournaments.

 

[Adamleelight]

So like where's the option to not ban the stage or any stages at all.

I'm sorry but I cant take this shit seriously lol. Its sounds like people want a stage to be banned cuz they are salty from losing on it. You guys complain that it gives an advantage to other players and makes the game random. But you have the same damn power on the same damn stage. If you are a "higher skilled player" as some of you would like to put yourself in, then learn to deal with it.

Don't be QQing and getting salty about it just cuz you lost, and blame the stage because of it. If this so called "lesser skilled player" beat you. That's your fault. You should know your shit with your character, and take down the opposition with ease. I vote no ban on any stage. Learn to deal with the game and stop getting salty about it.

 

[Raansu]

So like where's the option to not ban the stage or any stages at all.

I'm sorry but I cant take this shit seriously lol. Its sounds like people want a stage to be banned cuz they are salty from losing on it. You guys complain that it gives an advantage to other players and makes the game random. But you have the same damn power on the same damn stage. If you are a "higher skilled player" as some of you would like to put yourself in, then learn to deal with it.

Don't be QQing and getting salty about it just cuz you lost, and blame the stage because of it. If this so called "lesser skilled player" beat you. That's your fault. You should know your shit with your character, and take down the opposition with ease. I vote no ban on any stage. Learn to deal with the game and stop getting salty about it.

These posts are the best because it shows the ignorance of a baddie. EotE is random for both parties because the entire stage has a slippery surface. It completely changes how the game is played and it even HURTS certain characters because it changes the stun properties of low attacks that they rely on giving them weird tripping animations that they can't do anything with.

It's fine on sanctuary because you can actually get away from the water. You can't get away from it on EotE thus making the entire stage stupid. If anything, the stage should be banned for the simple merit that it actually has a negative effect on key character setups, and again, because the entire stage is slippery, you can't get away from it, thus removing another key element of DoA which is environmental positioning. EotE is stupid, it should be banned.

 

[Jefffcore]

Yes I am 100% aware of how any tournaments this game has been at. I just think it's premature because we're still figuring this game out. Hell we haven't even finish a decent tier list and match up chart for this game dude. This is jumping the gun for no reason. We don't know a lot of things yet. And don't try to play like we do.

I do know about all the unseeable lows in this game and what they do on ends of the earth. And that one little thing doesn't turn the tables. I feel that is people being salty they lost and blame it on the game for an opponent victory. Like I said man I would be losing to mashing scrubs online as well when I play on that stage. But I don't lose to them because i know the stage and I know what i need to do on it to win.

Level your game before you star blaming things on the game man. I'm not saying you suck or anything. If I can blow up people online on that stage then you can too. It's about getting better and developing the metagame instead of crying wolf to every little thing you lose to.

We don't need to know everything about every character to know that EotE makes the game dumb.

 

[DrDogg]

***ATTENTION***

Before anyone else replies about the tournament rules I posted. Please add what tournament you're planning to attend and/or what tournaments for DOA5 you've already attended (offline only).

No offense, but I do not need the input from people who have no plans to travel or enter an offline tournament.

I'd keep Home as well. Player's on fault for positioning themselves with back to wall, objects. Great spectator stage, lots of things exploding.

Your back is almost always to a wall in Home, and it's difficult to avoid objects because there are so many of them. Even if you try to get outside, you have to move through at least one room before you reach a section that allows you to get outside.

I do know about all the unseeable lows in this game and what they do on ends of the earth. And that one little thing doesn't turn the tables. I feel that is people being salty they lost and blame it on the game for an opponent victory. Like I said man I would be losing to mashing scrubs online as well when I play on that stage. But I don't lose to them because i know the stage and I know what i need to do on it to win.

Level your game before you star blaming things on the game man. I'm not saying you suck or anything. If I can blow up people online on that stage then you can too. It's about getting better and developing the metagame instead of crying wolf to every little thing you lose to.

Level up my game? I see. So you're basically telling me to guess better? Am I understanding that correctly?

That's not how banning works. Saying there's no reason not to ban something isn't a justification to ban it. The onus is on you to provide a reason for a ban, not for everyone else to come up with a reason why it shouldn't be banned.

I've already stated why I think those stages should be banned... several times.

And what do you mean by randomness? Everything is in the same place each time the map loads.

DOA5 is more random than most other fighters. Usually, that randomness leads to moderate damage. On Home/Depth, that randomness can lead to 90% or more.

 

[Allan Paris]

***ATTENTION***

Before anyone else replies about the tournament rules I posted. Please add what tournament you're planning to attend and/or what tournaments for DOA5 you've already attended (offline only).

No offense, but I do not need the input from people who have no plans to travel or enter an offline tournament.

I like this.

Home and Depth are fine. I get the issues with Home, although I think it should stay in rotation. The glitch where people get knocked through the wall needs to be addressed.

I have no idea what's wrong with Depth, please do explain, DrDogg. I think I missed your explanation on what's wrong with it. Depth is no different from playing on the Crash Club in doa4, actually the Crash Club is worse than Depth and the Crash Club was never banned from tournaments. Unless you know of something that makes the stage stupid like EotE?

I'd like the matches to be 2/3, I have a feeling the IPL events are going to get a lot of people to attend.

Saying that 3/5 cancels out or at least lessens the random factor is a comical statement to me. The increase in the life points lessened the randomed factor. Holds and throw punishment means jack shit because of that increase. So extra matches will allow more time to hit the buttons. If you ask me 3/5 increases the chances for people to be random. 2/3 makes you stick to your guns and make real life decisions. If we had the old normal life points then 3/5 makes sense to me.

 

[BlackxxxMamba]

Ok, what's broken about Depth?

 

[Allan Paris]

Dunno about other characters, but Mila can just about kill you in one "combo" on Depth.

If it includes the wall, do you ban other explosive or relaunching walls that allow a 2nd juggle? Also, the DOA4 stage(wrestling ring) should be banned as well. That stage is also worse than Depth even if you turn off the danger zone.

Leave Depth alone, it's fine.

I am also on a 50/50 with Sanctuary. I'd like it to stay but the respawning can get random. I've been put back into water after ending a round on land.

 

[IceMage95]

I don't see what is wrong with Depth. To me, you might as well ban Fighting Entertainment if it is going to be banned because some people have been on the receiving end of a high damage combo. Home on the other hand, might get more random and you could be caught in combos if you're hit into a wall/combo. Sanctuary I don't see much of a problem but of course, the respawning after each round is an issue.

EDIT: I've been to the pre-launch tournament at HIN. I do support having double elimination compared to having a single elimination like during E3 and at HIN.

 

[ikodomo]

EotE is the only stage where I would like to see get banned just the reason being that the whole stage is slippery. Never liked Sanctuary, but I can live with it and it does have a land element in it. There's nothing wrong with Home even though that stage doesn't fit my style of play. Depth is fine.

 

[DrDogg]

Multiple characters can get 90% combos on Depth and Home. Depth requires the Power Blow danger zone be active, but Home can be done with or without the ceiling due to the large number of objects in conjunction with the walls.

I don't have an issue with big damage using the environment, but when that damage gets up to 90% off of a random guess... that's what I'm trying to limit/prevent.

EotE is banned. I don't see that changing (at least for the first event). Sanctuary is on the chopping block, but I'm still open to possibly having that playable. Home and Depth I just tossed in because I personally think the game would be less random without them, and you don't gain anything by including them.

All major IPL events will be double elimination. 2/3 matches is still a possibility, but I really do prefer 3/5. If time is not an issue, I don't see the issue with 3/5 matches.

 

[Shade]

I vote for 3/5 matches, no stages banned.

However, if stages are banned, I think it should stop and end at EOTE, especially if its about a water environment. Water is not new to DOA. Its a viable strategy.

Home and Depth shouldn't even be in debate. Characters not able to take advantage of a stages dangerzone/wall is a tier problem. Not ban worthy though.

 

[Berzerk!]

I'd echo the call to keep all stages except EOTE.

On home, its one of the few stages that encourage close up play, which is awesome, and a worthy skill. You still have to be hit to cop that wall at your back.

So long as the rule is still to choose random stage, that also minimises issues as you can't plan what stage you fight on. Only EOTE creates clear strategic advantage/disadvantage by changing ALL lows at ALL times to have much stronger properties. Players can play around everything else in other stages.