Community Discussion for Tournament Rules
- Thread starter BlackxxxMamba
- Start date
1) Maybe it's because I haven't seen it yet, but why is depth banned? Would you be able to provide a video or setup/combo as an example?
2) I would prefer not banning Home as I think it has a lot of unique dangerzones that don't feel all that random to me, plus the outside courtyard is a nice area and unfortunately you don't get that if you remove home from the random select.
3) Sanctuary I could live without but I still don't think it's ban worthy.
4) I think that if both players agree on a stage they should be allowed to play on a banned stage as well.
5) Leave Dojo out of random as it is by default.
6) EotE... I've spoken before. After a few weeks of deliberation I think I'm on the fence about it. I like the stage, and we've dealt with all water stages before, but this game can be quite annoying on this stage mainly due to the awkward/unnoticeable cliff edges. It does make it difficult to know your proper spacing and such.
7) I'm basically sad to see any stage be banned, but understand from a game play perspective why some of them might be viewed in a negative light.
8) Everything Else I really have no objections at this time. Although, that could change whenever the patch comes out and I see what they've done.
dawnbringer
Active Member
I think neither stage warrants a ban. Dojo may indeed be added to random selection. Stage selection should always be random.
EotE is very consistent fully slippery stage. Sanctuary is mostly slippery, but has means to avoid slipperiness mid-round. Home have a lot of breakable stuff, it can be used by both players, and can be avoided entirely by transition to the yard. Depth makes some power blow setups incredibly powerful, it's available to both players and requires specific setups (there's no great variety of ways to combo into power blow).
Random stage selection is to introduce stage variety and to make it possible for characters to use stage advantage. Having advantage on a stage makes a character slightly better overall when using random stage selection. Removing the stage from selection makes the character worse.
I don't think banning stages should be considered an option to eliminate randomness. May as well allow only one character. On the other hand, things like BO5 matches do help without affecting gameplay.
Ends of the Earth is the only thing that needs to be banned. Everything else is terrible honestly. DOA really doesn't need an endless stage either, so Dojo should not be on random select. 3/5 takes too long and as you can see by the votes people do not want to do that. Why exactly is depth banned? Home and Depth are fine.
BlackxxxMamba
Active Member
I only agree with EotE being banned, and Sanctuary being banned or not is whatever to me. Everything else stage-wise, I 100% disagree. Dojo does not need to be a playable tournament stage. IMO, the way this game is and the life bars, this game needs environment.
I still prefer 2/3 matches for this game.
I know you want 3/5 matches to "Make tournaments less random" but LBSH, this game is not all that solid and is really random. This would just be like making an extended game of Heads or Tails.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Three majors and some locals?(Correct me if I'm wrong) Really? I'm sorry bro we need more than that.
so no gets fucked over. I mean no character has an unfair advantage on that stage. It just seems you don't want to deal with it.
Not bad. LOL, but we're going smash bros now?
Look man these are cool, but let's not ban stages that makes the game boring and uninteresting to watch.LOL dude this isn't marvel or smash with items and hazards on. That is random this isn't that random.
Three majors and some locals?(Correct me if I'm wrong) Really? I'm sorry bro we need more than that.
so no gets fucked over. I mean no character has an unfair advantage on that stage. It just seems you don't want to deal with it.
Not bad. LOL, but we're going smash bros now?
LOL dude this isn't marvel or smash with items and hazards on. That is random this isn't that random.
What do you mean that no character has an advantage? Brad Wong? Helena? Kokoro? Ever played them in the water?
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
what do I mean? I'm sorry I must have not been clear enough. But no one has it better off than other characters in water and ice. Ever played Zack in water? He has some nasty shit in water too.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
Let me be clear with my reasons for stage banning.
Could a tournament run well allowing all but EotE? Sure. But would you really miss out on anything with EotE, Sanctuary, Home and Depth banned? Would it really change the tournament so much that the top 8 would no longer be a good representation of the best players there?
You'd still have the following stages to play on:
- Arrival
- Dead or Alive
- Dojo
- Fighting Entertainment
- Flow
- Fuel
- Hot Zone
- Lab
- Primal
- Sakura
- Scramble
- Street
- Sweat
- Temple of the Dragon
- The Show (all three variants)
I believe that these stages allow for variety and a clear representation of the environmental dangers that separate DOA from most other fighters. I don't think you gain a lot by adding the banned stages, and at the very least, I don't see this being detrimental to the tournament scene if we try it at one major.
I've been on the receiving end of 90% health combos on Depth and Home. Combos that are basically exclusive to those stages. I couldn't give you specific notations, but I've seen Pai and Akira do these combos (there were others, but I forget specifics).
What benefit is there to 2/3 matches? The tournament runs faster? What if time is not a concern? Are there any other benefits beyond running a tournament faster?
Could a tournament run well allowing all but EotE? Sure. But would you really miss out on anything with EotE, Sanctuary, Home and Depth banned? Would it really change the tournament so much that the top 8 would no longer be a good representation of the best players there?
You'd still have the following stages to play on:
- Arrival
- Dead or Alive
- Dojo
- Fighting Entertainment
- Flow
- Fuel
- Hot Zone
- Lab
- Primal
- Sakura
- Scramble
- Street
- Sweat
- Temple of the Dragon
- The Show (all three variants)
I believe that these stages allow for variety and a clear representation of the environmental dangers that separate DOA from most other fighters. I don't think you gain a lot by adding the banned stages, and at the very least, I don't see this being detrimental to the tournament scene if we try it at one major.
I've been on the receiving end of 90% health combos on Depth and Home. Combos that are basically exclusive to those stages. I couldn't give you specific notations, but I've seen Pai and Akira do these combos (there were others, but I forget specifics).
What benefit is there to 2/3 matches? The tournament runs faster? What if time is not a concern? Are there any other benefits beyond running a tournament faster?
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
true, but the stages were banning aren't "OMG broke" tier. the better player still wins on these stages.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
lol DR2k
but yeah add dojo to random select. It's not a competitive fighting game without one.
but yeah add dojo to random select. It's not a competitive fighting game without one.
dawnbringer
Active Member
On the contrary, they should be played a lot to find out if they warrant a ban (most probably not, by the way). Not vice versa: not played to find out if it's okay without them.
I think those are very situational. Compare this to SoulCalibur and Virtua Fighter, where on plenty of stages in certain situations a single hit (in VF even a blocked hit or throw break) can instantly finish a round via ring out, effectively dealing 100% damage.
SilverKhaos
Active Member
Only thing i'll really say here, is that I think there should be a limit to what can be banned. You don't want to strip the game down so much its just a complete joke to even have it in a tournament, like what happens with smash bros. With that, they water it down so much that its not even Smash Bros anymore, so it defeats the entire purpose of even having a smash bros tournament.
Berzerk!
Well-Known Member
These rules are fine including banning EOE. It's a fun stage to WATCH with all the falling, but whatever.
3/5 is the ideal format. I still think on Normal life matches go too long, but in a spectator focused even the emphasis will be on finals matches anyway, so there's ways to present around it.
3/5 is the ideal format. I still think on Normal life matches go too long, but in a spectator focused even the emphasis will be on finals matches anyway, so there's ways to present around it.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
The "better player" wins less in DOA compared to every other fighting game. To say the "better player" wins more on EotE or Sanctuary is pretty far fetched.
I've played on them plenty of times and I feel they deserve to be banned because they allow the random factor that already runs rampant in this game, to result in ridiculous damage.
In VF and SC you aren't forced to guess throughout 90% of the match.
Not a single character is banned. Only 4 of 19 stages are banned and every single thing that makes those stages unique are represented in one of the legal stage. I'd hardly call that anywhere close to "stripping the game down so much it's just a complete joke".
Plus, even with all of it's "stripping down", and the age of the game, Smash STILL has a SIGNIFICANTLY larger competitive scene than DOA.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
The better player does win more. Hell I would be losing to mashing scrubs online when on ends of the earth. i know it's online, but hell even then you can tell who is trash and who isn't.
DrDogg
Well-Known Member
You misunderstand me. I agree that the better player wins more. But the percentage is extremely low compared to any other fighting game. When you throw in EotE, that percentage drops even more.
Do you know how many "unseeable" lows this game has? Do you know how many of them stun on NH when playing on EotE that don't normally stun on NH? All of them. It basically gives the average to below average player a higher chance of success against a more skilled opponent. There's a reason why people online will pick that stage deliberately after losing to a superior player.
You can debate banning the other stages, but there isn't really a valid argument to keep EotE in tournament play. You don't lose anything by removing it.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
So more people will want to play the game competivley if the community gets as ban happy?
The only level banned in DOA4(or any DOA in history) was the dinosaur level, because it had random dangerzones. No we're banning full ice levels, levels that allow guaranteed damage set ups(static dangerzones), level that's half water and regular land(Helena had psudo infinites in DOA2 water), and a circular level with damaging walls?
Next up we might as well ban Helena loops, or Alpha 152, or even top tier characters, etc. . .