DOA5LR Ayane Combo Discussion

[Ael]

Some new tech I found while messing with the AI today. (A random misfired move actually became useful against Brad Wong. o.o) After Ayane's advance mid punch hold (64H), you can opt to use P+KP as followup. It's not guaranteed if the opponent stagger escapes/reacts fast enough to high crush with a low move (i.e. 2P, 2K, etc.) or crouches/low guard. However, if P+KP hits after 64H, BT3P cannot be held. If P+KP was 2 frames faster (11 frames instead of 13 frames) and had a better hitbox, it would be guaranteed D: Nonetheless, a good option to have along with Ayane's other mixups and guarantees after 64H. Plus, this option gives Ayane a slight damage buff compared to her guarantee launcher juggles with 4P+K.

Note: If you conditioned your opponent to expect this and see the opponent crouching or trying to low jab, a mid launcher instead should do the trick to smack them for a good counter-hit juggle also.

After 64H:

64H > P+KP > BT3P > BT6P > 6KK4 > BT4P~K = 89 damage on Alpha
64H > P+KP > BT3P > BT6P > 8KK > BTPP4PP7K = 88 damage to light
64H > P+KP > BT3P > BT6P > 66KK47K = 80 damage to mid
64H > P+KP > BT3P > BTPP4PP7K = 66 damage to heavy

Edit with better juggles:
64H > P+KP > BT3P > BT6P > 66KK47K works on Genfu also
64H > P+KP > BT3P > 66KK47K = 77 damage to Bass and heavies

If the opponent presses buttons (aside from high crush moves) after 64H, that will get Ayane a free counter hit since she's at +14 after 64H, allowing for an additional +10-15 damage to these combos. Against wall splats and dangerzones, this will easily give her 90+ damage. Again, this isn't guaranteed, but it's definitely another great mixup to add to Ayane's very dangerous 64H.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Interesting find Ael. Do you mean P+KP~BT3P? I know you like that move =P.

 

[Ael]

Interesting find Ael. Do you mean P+KP~BT3P? I know you like that move =P.

Indeed, it's BT3P. I hardly write the notations for it so I forgot the BT. Thanks for correcting me. (:

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Yes she does mean P+KP~BT3P.

Edit: She kunoichi'd me lol.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Lol, Ninja'ed xD!

And no problem Ael

 

[Ayane]

Hi there :3

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Hi there :3

Greetings, how's it going Ayane?

 

[Ayane]

Good!
Trying to learn LR stuff!

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Awesome! Anything in particular?

 

[Ayane]

Hrm kinda just everything atm xD Going through my old combos from the original 5 to see what still works! It seems like the enders are still the same at least lol

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Most combos should still work, though BTPP6P juggles a bit better making it easier to end juggles with BTPP6P~K.

 

[Ayane]

Ok cool thanks! Is that the normal ender for heavies/low stun launches now?

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Not necessarily, but combos where BTPP6P~K would commonly drop now connect more regularly. BTPP4PP7K, BT4P~K and PP6PK are still the most common combo enders (though you'll still need to occasionally substitute BT4P~K for 7K, particularly against super heavies).

 

[Ayane]

Ok cool! And I see that launch>66KK4>dash>BTPP4PP7K still works on the light weights too!

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Hmm, I don't really recommend that combo unless the opponent has been wall-carried to a corner because it doesn't connect that well in open space and doesn't do much additional damage. BT4P~K is a much more reliable combo ender with great blastback range for environmental damage.

 

[Ayane]

Ok works for me! I'll do that instead. I feel like getting to the amount of stun where that ender would work is not likely anyways lol.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Sounds good. Unnecessarily extending the stun with Ayane isn't that necessary since she can get good launch heights off of initial stiuns thanks to her strong launchers and stun-launch damage.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Sounds good. Unnecessarily extending the stun with Ayane isn't that necessary since she can get good launch heights off of initial stiuns thanks to her strong launchers and stun-launch damage.

I strongly disagree, I think balancing the ability to mix up stun launch and stun threshold is a great choice with this character. Utilizing threshold allows Ayane to frame trap opponents, this is exactly where a lot of her frame traps come from. 6K/6K2K as a frustration tool also implies strong pressure. Using the stance transitions and things like 6P3/P+KP3 (or 1) during threshold can get really confusing for the opponent.

Players who I have offline casuals with often (the best in California, besides Steady because he's in SoCal) are having further problems trying read what type of mid is coming next because 6K2K does not let you press buttons.

6K being +15 on neutral hit is the stepping stone for an offense.

I think stun launch is certainly fine, but isn't the only way to get damage with Ayane in the DOA5 series. Because it'll just come down to your opponent reading your launch attempts. This is based on pure experience at higher levels of play. My thought process with this character has changed a lot since the beginning of 5U, and I can assure you, the more I implement what I've labbed, the more I realize the mix up potential with this character is a lot more than previously discussed.

Stun launch and threshold pressure are amazing with this character, and a simple reason being she influences so many 50/50 situations where a stagger escape will not solve anything. You have to guess.

 

[Ayane]

I think you can play her both ways. After playing for a few hours with a friend I noticed that I tend to go for early launches like FON was saying. But once I got more comfortable with how he wanted to hold etc. I would extend my stun like how iHajin was suggesting.

Ayane has the mixup potential to do it, she also gets decent damage of early launches as well. It's just really up to the player!

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Never said you couldn't, I was expressing stun launch isn't the only way. I was basing things from my own personal experience and player growth/development with this character.