Alpha-152 general discussion

[deathofaninja]

2P is a great tool for Alpha because she's highly limited on how she can open up a match. Especially against another Kasumi... 2P should always be considered as a match opener, because everyone expects her i9 jab or 3P. Which will result in you being blocked and punished. A smart opponent will catch on to that as well.

Good match openers: 7K,P,3P, T, 2P

If you are as cool as me you can open up with a burst every now and then.

 

[Lulu]

2P is a great tool for Alpha because she's highly limited on how she can open up a match. Especially against another Kasumi... 2P should always be considered as a match opener, because everyone expects her i9 jab or 3P. Which will result in you being blocked and punished. A smart opponent will catch on to that as well.

Good match openers: 7K,P,3P, T, 2P

If you are as cool as me you can open up with a burst every now and then.

I open with FLOAT... I let the opponent approach and BAM !!!! Flying Punch....... after that I never do it again.
Offcourse that only works on the AI.....

 

[deathofaninja]

That's an interesting opener... haha I don't recommend it anymore.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

Thanks for the tips Chapstick and DOAN!

 

[Lulu]

Looks like Alpha had a previous career as a run away experiment before she wound up as a fighter in DoA.

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

^ "I'm the ruler of Outworld!" - Mileena

"You are merely a failed experiment!!" - Kotal Khan

SMFH!!

 

[Lulu]

LoL and the plot Thickens.

 

[Chapstick]

This video's pretty old but I figure I'll post it anyway

I think Alpha has the coolest effects with this glitch

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

^ All that Plasma! Alpha is too REAL!! XD

 

[Chapstick]

It seems like H+KK is great at stuffing range attacks idk if I'm late to this party or not. Goes pretty far seemingly without extending her hurtbox that much. Plus you have the followups if it whiffs

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

It seems like H+KK is great at stuffing range attacks idk if I'm late to this party or not. Goes pretty far seemingly without extending her hurtbox that much. Plus you have the followups if it whiffs

Yep! It can ~ into her K string as well. (Note: when I hit LT twice - H+K - I get H+KK; I reserve the normal K (B) for her "BS" string: H+K2K2K2K) Plus not many know the sequence! 8K is a great bait tool, but be careful not to extend it to FLT cause it could lead to trouble if you don't , or immediately) 8K is best as an conditioning/approach tool. Very useful in mixup situations while close!

 

[Chapstick]

Well, how often do we hear how unsafe she is and she does have strings she's must commit to. She's not like Alpha/Kasumi where she can delay them (just certain ones - the one that sees the triple kick ender comes to mind and the 2-in-1 as well)

the first thing said usually is to block + punish! (which baffles me as to why this isn't done to the other two as they are unsafe as well, Trying to hold them will get you punished - and Alpha - nuff said!!

The entire trio is mashy af, but folks wanna solely give that title to Alpha - why, I wish I knew! Attempting mash will get everybody in trouble - including Alpha - which also begs the question, why folks think she is so fast when she isn't. It's bad when she (just like Kasumi) can run guardbreak you repeatedly - I didn't say run grab - all of them can do that!

But again, you think for someone who is so unsafe, should mash? I think we both know better, don't we? Mash level: Alpha>Kasumi>Phase 4 or perhaps Alpha>Phase 4>Kasumi since you know, speed beats everything! Or, as someone wrote on FB: if you have an i9 jab and I hear how that trio mashes people out, too! (And they aren't the only ones - Christie + Mila get HMs + Momiji)

Just my perspective!

Alpha has access to her safe 7K from like any string. Doesn't mean she's better than Kasumi or Phase and opponents will obviously start expecting it but it's safety she has access to almost every time she starts attacking which her sisters (especially Phase) don't. This isn't all Alpha has from strings either, she's got the -4 elbow from her 6K string and the distance-safe 3K from PPPPK/3PPK. The GB from all of the 4K strings seems to be unpunishable as well since it has a fair amount of pushback and you can't be thrown in FLT.

Kasumi can be mashy online where she's "safe" when she shouldn't be and her low trips are harder to low block/hold. Phase players too will often hit buttons after PPP/3P online and get away with it since it's -8.

Unrelated-ish I have a couple suggestions for changes to Alpha:

-Change FLT K to -7 to give her a semi-safe strike out of FLT stance
-Keep FLT P's unsafety as it is but put a GB on it like there was in 5 vanilla to mindfuck

AND A THIRD THING, how does her FLT H work? It seems it can parry anything in the entire game but does anyone know the frame window it can do this in

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

Alpha has access to her safe 7K from like any string. Doesn't mean she's better than Kasumi or Phase and opponents will obviously start expecting it but it's safety she has access to almost every time she starts attacking which her sisters (especially Phase) don't. This isn't all Alpha has from strings either, she's got the -4 elbow from her 6K string and the distance-safe 3K from PPPPK/3PPK. The GB from all of the 4K strings seems to be unpunishable as well since it has a fair amount of pushback and you can't be thrown in FLT.

Kasumi can be mashy online where she's "safe" when she shouldn't be and her low trips are harder to low block/hold. Phase players too will often hit buttons after PPP/3P online and get away with it since it's -8.

Unrelated-ish I have a couple suggestions for changes to Alpha:

-PPPPK/3PPK changed from -13 to -8 like 3K by itself is

My idealistic changes:

-Change FLT K to -7 to give her a semi-safe strike out of FLT stance
-Keep FLT P's unsafety as it is but put a GB on it like there was in 5 vanilla to mindfuck

AND A THIRD THING, how does her FLT H work? It seems it can parry anything in the entire game but does anyone know the frame window it can do this in

7K - while safe, she can still be mashed upon descent if she doesn't immediately (I realize no one else can do this, but that isn't the point).

She is +2 when (x7) is blocked, but the only options out of FLT if you don't immediately (see something here?) are or The former can be held since one can mash out of stun (and I don't mean a hold, but we'll get to that later), the latter - well, isn't all that different. Therefore, an immediate and a or 7P (but when Alpha's tries to get away ... ) of course, still having to immediately because of this - (Hold)

Regarding Pushback (when blocked) Knockback (on hit) even with GBs:

(and variants) (The AlpHelena) - what exactly is not stopping a mid kick hold or a "walk-into" mid kick hold - yet, again, one can re-hold out of stun - not mash - but I'm not there yet.

(I know I could dive, but for the sake of argument, let's say I don't out of any FLT string ender) - immediate or I get mashed!

33KK, K

The only oe of any use is 6P+K, but everybody knows that's a mid because well, Kasumi!

7K - what is the point if @ -4, I'm forced to (Yes, she can do alot of stuff while )
8K4 ( + variants) - "MASH ME!" (Why do that if I'm gonna have to again)
2H+K4 ( + variants) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

H+K (Hold) 2 K,K,K,K - This is my bullshit string as there is no mid in it, but here comes this problem:

Everyone just has to hold a damn low kick! I know the second isn't guaranteed, and three's are bad with Alpha anyway (Delaying is my next point). Yet, when she is - mfing 25 on block and you rather go for the hold; yet, when she comes up short with FLT P, then you low throw? FOH!! I say this because in bad Alpha mirrors, she mashes right out of dive as if there was no consequence! (I may have missed a punish opp, but this is as fucking bad as Rachael masing 2K after a block 26P @ - 15 - see above)

Mashng out of stun - Kasumi is probably the worst for me here! The low-mid punch string 2-hit (forget inputs) and of course, Phase 4 and do it, too (woohoo!). I have tried to parry. I have tried to appropriately block, but there are no options since she can do this mini-string for up to five hits (tested in lab). I refuse to mash - all the damn time! (This is why she gets the accusation while true, that is!) Tina -4 low. Really? My jab is suppose to beat that, but Tina gets away with that -4 crap to much. I know it becomes -10 when blocked, but I get mashed (I mean pressured even lightly when blocking). Chance to throw? Nope! Mashed again and I dare not risk OHs, but normals are often teched!

Online or not, Alpha is unsafe, but the only punishment she sees is a relentless rushdown (mashup) or Grappler's Delight - and folks bitch about her damn grabs!!

RUSH BURST BREAK OBORO her neutral, 66T, (6 + 2)T, S.P.E.A.R. can all be mashed out of!

Wow! That is a hell of alot more mashing from two characters who aren't Alpha, but she's mashy as fuck - and noob's character? Okay, then! Low kicks that take all damn day to come out <20 on startup is asinine (and not even one instance of 2H+K), let's not even mention the disadvantage. Everyone looks for some kind of mid immediately. All of this and people don't wanna chase her around the stage (neutral teleport gimp) but do anyway - how ironic!!

Am I leaving anything out? (Btw, other players better than I, will confirmed probably haalf if not 3/4 to all of this!) Shame most thought I was dumb and didn't know what I was talking about. Who'd care since opponents have it easy now - even though on paper it seems like it's hard for them to win! It's hard for Alpha in practice! I don't care how good you are or think you are!

 

[Chapstick]

7K - while safe, she can still be mashed upon descent if she doesn't immediately (I realize no one else can do this, but that isn't the point).

She is +2 when (x7) is blocked, but the only options out of FLT if you don't immediately (see something here?) are or The former can be held since one can mash out of stun (and I don't mean a hold, but we'll get to that later), the latter - well, isn't all that different. Therefore, an immediate and a or 7P (but when Alpha's tries to get away ... ) of course, still having to immediately because of this - (Hold)

Regarding Pushback (when blocked) Knockback (on hit) even with GBs:

(and variants) (The AlpHelena) - what exactly is not stopping a mid kick hold or a "walk-into" mid kick hold - yet, again, one can re-hold out of stun - not mash - but I'm not there yet.

(I know I could dive, but for the sake of argument, let's say I don't out of any FLT string ender) - immediate or I get mashed!

33KK, K

The only oe of any use is 6P+K, but everybody knows that's a mid because well, Kasumi!

7K - what is the point if @ -4, I'm forced to (Yes, she can do alot of stuff while )
8K4 ( + variants) - "MASH ME!" (Why do that if I'm gonna have to again)
2H+K4 ( + variants) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

H+K (Hold) 2 K,K,K,K - This is my bullshit string as there is no mid in it, but here comes this problem:

Everyone just has to hold a damn low kick! I know the second isn't guaranteed, and three's are bad with Alpha anyway (Delaying is my next point). Yet, when she is - mfing 25 on block and you rather go for the hold; yet, when she comes up short with FLT P, then you low throw? FOH!! I say this because in bad Alpha mirrors, she mashes right out of dive as if there was no consequence! (I may have missed a punish opp, but this is as fucking bad as Rachael masing 2K after a block 26P @ - 15 - see above)

Mashng out of stun - Kasumi is probably the worst for me here! The low-mid punch string 2-hit (forget inputs) and of course, Phase 4 and do it, too (woohoo!). I have tried to parry. I have tried to appropriately block, but there are no options since she can do this mini-string for up to five hits (tested in lab). I refuse to mash - all the damn time! (This is why she gets the accusation while true, that is!) Tina -4 low. Really? My jab is suppose to beat that, but Tina gets away with that -4 crap to much. I know it becomes -10 when blocked, but I get mashed (I mean pressured even lightly when blocking). Chance to throw? Nope! Mashed again and I dare not risk OHs, but normals are often teched!

Online or not, Alpha is unsafe, but the only punishment she sees is a relentless rushdown (mashup) or Grappler's Delight - and folks bitch about her damn grabs!!

RUSH BURST BREAK OBORO her neutral, 66T, (6 + 2)T, S.P.E.A.R. can all be mashed out of!

Wow! That is a hell of alot more mashing from two characters who aren't Alpha, but she's mashy as fuck - and noob's character? Okay, then! Low kicks that take all damn day to come out <20 on startup is asinine (and not even one instance of 2H+K), let's not even mention the disadvantage. Everyone looks for some kind of mid immediately. All of this and people don't wanna chase her around the stage (neutral teleport gimp) but do anyway - how ironic!!

Am I leaving anything out? (Btw, other players better than I, will confirmed probably haalf if not 3/4 to all of this!) Shame most thought I was dumb and didn't know what I was talking about. Who'd care since opponents have it easy now - even though on paper it seems like it's hard for them to win! It's hard for Alpha in practice! I don't care how good you are or think you are!

I think I've said this before but reading your replies is always a wild ride. I'll reply to things that seem to be replies to specific things I said and if I read anything wrong let me know

-7K on block doesn't put her in FLT so there's no need to hit H unless you want to block
-PPPPPPP is -2 and doesn't put her in FLT on block either
-4K6K requires a "fastest" hold in stun so I'm guessing this is or is damn near a natural combo like PP or 3PP. This does put you in FLT on block at some distance and people have to give respect to FLT P or K possibly coming out if they attempt something
-the 8K string GB is something you don't want to do, you're right
-idk why you mentioned 6P+K
-33KK's GB is interesting but what hinders it is the lack of safe moves from FLT which would be solved by my -7 FLT K idea

I think the Kasumi string you're talking about is 1PP? It's a low and a high. Phase doesn't have it. Unless you mean 4PP which is mid then high and Phase does have that as 6PP.

 

[synce]

Yeah H+K is one of her top moves. It used to be even better in vanilla, where the followup K was guaranteed and forced opponent to guess between a 3 way mixup that could take half their lifebar.

Also since I don't play anymore I might as well share her guaranteed FT. It's been in the game since 5U first came out. You have to do 4KKK at CB threshold. Enjoy it before TN patches it out

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

I think I've said this before but reading your replies is always a wild ride. I'll reply to things that seem to be replies to specific things I said and if I read anything wrong let me know

-7K on block doesn't put her in FLT so there's no need to hit H unless you want to block
-PPPPPPP is -2 and doesn't put her in FLT on block either
-4K6K requires a "fastest" hold in stun so I'm guessing this is or is damn near a natural combo like PP or 3PP. This does put you in FLT on block at some distance and people have to give respect to FLT P or K possibly coming out if they attempt something
-the 8K string GB is something you don't want to do, you're right
-idk why you mentioned 6P+K
-33KK's GB is interesting but what hinders it is the lack of safe moves from FLT which would be solved by my -7 FLT K idea

I think the Kasumi string you're talking about is 1PP? It's a low and a high. Phase doesn't have it. Unless you mean 4PP which is mid then high and Phase does have that as 6PP.

- +2/-2 obviously, we're looking from different perspective. I believe I was doing that string on Christie (Guard All) - it was +2, her side - which is -2 on Alpha's is correct. (Yet, the lunge upward, negates this imo, despite it being a GB. (I'm still apprehensive to hit-a-button - as folks hate that - when my guard is broken. Yet, let them GB me, yep mash or begrudgingly laced throw after a minute of mindless block pressure (this isn't MKX with chip damage, damn it!)

- 7K FLT - is not a "natural" float as what 7P is.

Picture us in a lobby - trolling - tossing out the 7 and 9K flip kicks respectively. Either one of us could hit a button upon descent since we would be falling faster. Kasumi doesn't float with 7P, but for this instance, she can and does. Considering Kasumi is also heavier than Alpha, she's going to descend faster (she does reach the same peak point as Alpha before descent though)

Mind you, Alpha can ground herself naturally or instantly while Kasumi can't! Whether I mash or not (HMHMH Kick string) Alpha wins, unless you manage to land, get stunned (or block) and correctly guess the proper hold (nevermind, I may delay it just to muck with you XD )

Actual application, as I said I am better off instant-grounding and blocking since there's the threat of "HAB" I don't care if I can hit a button when I'm just barely safe anyway (-4). And most likely, they'll hit buttons just to apply "block pressure" with nothing after it. Yet, Alpha mashes if she reciprocates but this one does what many don't - tick-throw! However, folks know how to easily avoid those! Even with all those aforementioned throws at her disposal.

- 4K6K for me is used as a "keep away" move by itself (she has others that produce serious KB) or as a combo-ender (H+KKPP66P~4K6K)

It says it's -18 on block (yet, safe af with all that pushback if blocked) + GB, but FLT P and possibly 9K as a FT to toss them back to the other side of the screen (friends would do this and I'm like what/how dafuq?). Usually, the best option for me is to cancel and wait! (Players hate that I'm patient af)

This is where rush/break come into play - and the only setup - wait, dash forward, stop and just look at them. Maybe dash forward and back or walk back & forth to mindfuck them!! Headgames are just as strong if not stronger when you do nothing to provoke or evoke the appropriate reaction! Hook, Line and Sinker + Mirror Shards? (Oh, shit!!) Or Poundcake! (Hungry?) Throw out BURST in space to get them scared of it! I've actually had AI Alpha catch me with it after running into her and did this as well in a real fight! (Btw, if it ends a CB setup, precede it with 6P - I've found it gives the deepest stun - H+KKP6PBURST)

However, though it ducks highs, it goes above lows and at <20 frames,easy strike/throw punish (but I'm sure you knew this)

- The 6P+K mention - well, out of all the possible CB setups for Kasumi, she only has this CB input (unless she gained more I don't know about) It can be easily caught if seen premptively - and the HM of Ayane as the 3K burst for Alpha is hers! (This was my favorite setup ender, but being attached to the most obvious string hampered this greatly - KKKKK3K (or is it KKKK3K)

Don't worry I found other setups:

3(KPKPK) 3(KPKP66P) 3(KPK66P) (Distribute properly)
3K6P+K3K3K
(One that uses all three bursts) - 3K6P+K3K (or 6P+K) 66P (A fellow player/friend taught me that one)
H+KK ... (The bullshit is real lol )

Now I did a hypothetical situation that involved Kasumi and Alpha in tag! Now, although the mid-punch bursts are identical, there is a difference is this scenario (it may not really exist). I got this idea from watching oMASTERo's stream yesterday talking about frame manipulation, but he was saying how you can manipulate frames with the characters, I am not, so disregard that part.

Let's say Kasumi's 6P+K is 12(2)12 and Alpha's is 14(4)14:

Obviously Kasumi's, based on the numbers alone, isn't held, free burst combo. Alpha's is slightly slower, but she gets the same free combo. Practice holding Kasumi's a few times. then Alpha's and vice-versa. Have them swap and increase the frequency. Though it's the same at slightly different speeds and you have two more frames to hit Alpha with (but the opponent's just trying to hold not attack) you're having to guess like crazy as to whom and when, right? This is why I mentioned being careful with 6P+K. It could just as easily be the same scenario with 3K (Alpha + Ayane) - especially if you played Alpha's partners individually, therefore, knowing their bursts (though Ayane has a mid punch one, too)

Your -7 FLT K: On hit or block because if Helena's 3PP (I believe) went way down to -8, (though you can't tell as players still abuse it)Then, there's Alpha's 6P (and please tell me I'm reading it wrong) - her side is -13H, -16B (+13, +16 respectively) (Ignoring SAR frames, but I'm sure she can be hit out of that). You can see what I'm about to ask. Was this in one of the patches? Was it abused in U, therefore. getting the "Helena" treatment?

I know this is alot and should probably move into the character-specific forum anyway (which is dead af) But I would like some more in-depth insight and clarification. I, too, hope I am helping and not coming off as just complaining.

 

[Chapstick]

Mashing P after PPPPPPP gets blocked is fine imo, it's 11f with the -2 GB so an opponent would have to have a 9 or 10f high or an 11f mid and do them immediately. Of course they could also crush but y'know. I either P or parry after this.

I'm still not sure what you're saying about 7K, it doesn't cause FLT on block and we were talking about safety. She can do this from practically any string so of she decides to finish a string with it and nothing gets held she always comes out safe. I notice a lot of people try throw me after this with other characters' 7K's being -30 on block. When opponents don't throw after this I usually parry.

One setup that technically uses the three CB animations is (on NH) 3PPK 6P+K 66P. PPPPK and 3PPK don't CB but imagine if they did 0: do it TN

My -7 FLT K (on block) idea is just something I came up with to give her a safe strike out of FLT, it's never been like that. It's -20 at the moment which is a bit much. /:

Unrelated side note- I forget if I said this somewhere else but if you're fighting someone that techs every single time they get FLT P'd to avoid the BT 7K, RUSH is incredible

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

Yeah, but I mean when you stop short doing FLT P - that's a throw punish! (I've set Christie to low throw on reaction throwing it out raw!) Moat rather hold it. Why? No idea!

Something else I found out (Bayman dummy) - Kasumi's 2T is 5 startup vs. Alpha's 3 (I get the striker/grappler), but that is odd to me.

Yeah, the 1PP. I feel like I'm better off blocking even if I get hit - preferably the low part since I can duck the high (I had Bayman crouch throw on reaction earlier when I was Kasumi - see reason why above) and punish with a strike or throw.

1PP is 19(3)25 - this is the sum of the string or just the second P in the it? I'm still having trouble trying to decipher strings that have multiple "Active Frame" parts.

4K6K - 11 (3) 11 (...) 12 (...) disregard the recovery frames (51 is asinine)

The holds being 0 (18) 12. I have set Kasumi to perform every hold while I throw out varying, but appropriate attacks. The active frames keep changing (her side) whether I connect on hit or she connects on hold. (Remember they were (18) raw (no incoming attacks)

Alpha's 7K dilemma:

First, I notice it will alternative from -4 or -5 (+4, and 5 for opponent) just throwing out raw! Why does this happening and I feel it make more of a difference for some reason. (Btw, what I mean by 7K "pseudo float," is the faster recover - or descent after peak height is reached - this goes for Christie, Momiji, Hayate, Alpha, Kasumi, Phase 4, Ayane (though hers is a different input).

Raw 7K (Player one side, Kasumi) 12(5)56 - getting hit as Alpha on purpose) Advantage wise - 0 (though I know the trick, thanks to Master) Kasmi fluctuates between +13 and 14 when I get up naturally. You're correct on -30 when blocked. Yet, things are hella different when reversed:

Raw 9K (Alpha, player 2 side, standing Kasumi)

12(6)33 - Now, you would think that Alpha has faster recovery just by looking at the numbers, but since she "floats" to the ground - not FALL or "psuedo float." She descended naturally. If I press hold (btw, frame advantage is 0) - it will go anywhere from +2 to +8 advantage Alpha. I also saw that the hit level isn't shown (I know why); therefore, I recorded Kasumi doing the same kick (9K in her case) It's a mid, but I don't think it can be countered - perhaps that's why players block it. (Kasumi couldn't hold Alpha's nor vice-versa (An UH setup, perhaps?) I'm still afraid to hit-a-button though.

Yeah, Alpha is unsafe, but again, rushing/holding is better than going for a punish - unless of course, she's against a 4-frame grappler, but she has a 3 frame low-grab! No one has a 3 frame throw and people fear the <20 frame ones! Go sit down!

She's certainly a quirky character!! XD

 

[Chapstick]

Yeah, the 1PP. I feel like I'm better off blocking even if I get hit - preferably the low part since I can duck the high (I had Bayman crouch throw on reaction earlier when I was Kasumi - see reason why above) and punish with a strike or throw.

1PP is 19(3)25 - this is the sum of the string or just the second P in the it?I'm still having trouble trying to decipher strings that have multiple "Active Frame" parts.

That's for the second P. That move is -11 IIRC so 6T it.

4K6K - 11 (3) 11 (...) 12 (...) disregard the recovery frames (51 is asinine)

That's for any move that has multiple parts or a sabaki or something. For the 6K of 4K6K it's three kicks and that shows the startup and active frames for all three. First kick is 11 with 3 active frames, second is 11 with 3 active frames, third is 12 with 3 active frames and then the recovery frames start after the third kick ends.

First, I notice it will alternative from -4 or -5 (+4, and 5 for opponent) just throwing out raw! Why does this happening and I feel it make more of a difference for some reason.

It depends on the range and which active frame connects. Say a move is 15(5)25. Up close the 2nd active frame will connect and there will be 28 frames until the move ends, let's just say it's -10 on block. At max distance the 5th active frame will connect and there will be 25 frames until the move ends making it -7 on block.

 

[tokiopewpew]

I lack of knowledge about Alpha, though I've never seen this before so I'm asking:

Why is she able to teleport out of the blue when I just walk close to her? I wanted to grab because I was expecting a parry. As you can see in my move details, my punch came out after she teleported. Does Alpha have this option with her back to the wall?

I can't check the move list because the game dies when I turn them on in the replay due to the 1.04 bug and her move details just display the teleport.