The lack-of-stagger-escape glitch poll

[Nightpup]

I wouldn't call it "East and West" exactly. From my understanding most of Asia agrees with us, too. It's just Japan.

Do we know exactly why Japan players have such opposite viewpoints?

 

[Russian-chiropractic19]

fine Japan question is would it work?

 

[Rikuto]

Do we know exactly why Japan players have such opposite viewpoints?

Two pages back.

There is a school of thought that everything in every fighting game is a guess, but when you create big damage situations you theoretically give a lower level player a higher opportunity to win because he has to guess fewer times to do so. And on the flip side, if you create a situation like we have in DOA 4 where nothing is guaranteed, you force people to guess more often but in so doing also force them to keep track of every minor deviation from a persons pattern, which allows the "true" higher level player more opportunities to capitalize on how well he's been keeping track of his opponents bad habits.

I can't argue that this is completely wrong, but it was executed horrendously in 4. Furthermore the game becomes so convoluted that it literally isn't any fun to play for the average competitive player. It's like a giant game of Flash Cards.

At the same time we have our school of thought which says "fuck guessing" and focused more on spacing and reaction based rewards. Less emphasis on Yomi, more on the characters, the attacks, the stage, the game itself. The big damage for one critical mistake school works far better under this kind of game.

In the highest levels of VF (to which the US is not really privy) there is a shit ton of guessing, so the Japanese players are forced into the yomi school of thought. It's not really impossible to see where they are coming from with their preferences to mutate DOA into something similar to VF in that they can micro-manage themselves and not have to deal with the stress of guessing wrong just once and losing everything.

That doesn't mean the rest of the world has to like it, though.


edit:
It's also worth mentioning that people who support the pro-guessing format for DOA also tend to be genuinely horrible at every fighting game they touch. Not a blind insult, but a frighteningly accurate stereotype.

Just thought I'd put that in there.

For Russian...

fine Japan question is would it work?

It's unorthodox, but yes. I believe it would.

 

[grap3fruitman]

It's simple: we kill the Japanese players.

 

[deathofaninja]

We wouldn't need the Joker to do that...

(oh nvm I get it)

 

[rximmortal]

I seriously cant get why you guys even play DOA.
Why you play a game and say see Tekken is better; SF4 is better; Pink Ponnys is better.
Ok go and play tekken and SF4. Noone stops you.
But why you flame about the game you play comparing it to other games , it is pointless.
You want guaranteed damage? OK. Go and play tekken where after each connect you can watch nearly 10-15 seconds how you die.From all fighting games you cant find a single one that is moved by basic and understandable rules like DOA.Thats why i play it.
I played tekken but The game is just tooo broken and hard. It dont deserve its time.
So i seriously doubt why most of players come here.
How i come in the chat , to discuss the game i love, and start flaming it???

 

[Chris Harris]

I seriously cant get why you guys even play DOA.
Why you play a game and say see Tekken is better; SF4 is better; Pink Ponnys is better.
Ok go and play tekken and SF4. Noone stops you.
But why you flame about the game you play comparing it to other games , it is pointless.
You want guaranteed damage? OK. Go and play tekken where after each connect you can watch nearly 10-15 seconds how you die.From all fighting games you cant find a single one that is moved by basic and understandable rules like DOA.Thats why i play it.
I played tekken but The game is just tooo broken and hard. It dont deserve its time.
So i seriously doubt why most of players come here.
How i come in the chat , to discuss the game i love, and start flaming it???

The common answer to any type of substance to DoA.

 

[Raansu]

I seriously cant get why you guys even play DOA.
Why you play a game and say see Tekken is better; SF4 is better; Pink Ponnys is better.
Ok go and play tekken and SF4. Noone stops you.
But why you flame about the game you play comparing it to other games , it is pointless.
You want guaranteed damage? OK. Go and play tekken where after each connect you can watch nearly 10-15 seconds how you die.From all fighting games you cant find a single one that is moved by basic and understandable rules like DOA.Thats why i play it.
I played tekken but The game is just tooo broken and hard. It dont deserve its time.
So i seriously doubt why most of players come here.
How i come in the chat , to discuss the game i love, and start flaming it???

You clearly never played DoA prior to DoA4.

 

[Doa_Eater]

I seriously cant get why you guys even play DOA.
Why you play a game and say see Tekken is better; SF4 is better; Pink Ponnys is better.
Ok go and play tekken and SF4. Noone stops you.
But why you flame about the game you play comparing it to other games , it is pointless.
You want guaranteed damage? OK. Go and play tekken where after each connect you can watch nearly 10-15 seconds how you die.From all fighting games you cant find a single one that is moved by basic and understandable rules like DOA.Thats why i play it.
I played tekken but The game is just tooo broken and hard. It dont deserve its time.
So i seriously doubt why most of players come here.
How i come in the chat , to discuss the game i love, and start flaming it???

Says a guys who runs away from a lobby when he see's 4 S+ players inside!

 

[rximmortal]

Yes I never ever played other Doa than this one. So whats the problem ?

Says a guys who runs away from a lobby when he see's 4 S+ players inside!

And i run from lobby because i dont have time to wait 5 other peoples. Otherwise i dont care about they ranked status.

 

[Murakame]

Yes I never ever played other Doa than this one. So whats the problem ?

How do you make a statement like "I seriously cant get why you guys even play DOA." When you have never played a DOA before this one? How do you know what a competitive DOA is when you have only been exposed to DOA 5?

 

[Blackula]

The other person can easily step to avoid the situation getting reversed, keeping the other person backed against the wall. It's just a lousy way to start of the match and it shouldn't be necessary to try to get yourself out of a shitty situation before the match has even started.

I had a very long conversation with Winback about the stage designs in DOA5. I brought up that I hated that we could move before the match starts. No other 3D fighting game does that except DOA5. Then he brought up the issue of on most stages, player 1 is almost always at an advantage because most of the danger items are always behind where player 2 starts. At least with moving around each would be able to change that issue before the match starts.

If Team Ninja only designed their stages where a danger zone wasn't immediately behind either character from the very start, then it wouldn't be an issue. I personally would love it if characters wouldn't move before the match starts because of the speed issue. Some characters will already be at an attack advantage because of how fast their attacks are. If no one is able to move at the start, then that isn't an issue and both characters are on equal footing. But until the stages are designed to where there isn't an immediate danger zone behind either player, this may not happen.

 

[Raansu]

Yes I never ever played other Doa than this one. So whats the problem ?

And there you have it folks. Stop jumping into conversations when you have no real experience with the franchise. The things we talk about are features that older DoA games had prior to DoA4. Every time someone brings up Tekken and how DoA is so "unique" it becomes painfully clear they have never played an older DoA game.

 

[d3v]

There is a school of thought that everything in every fighting game is a guess, but when you create big damage situations you theoretically give a lower level player a higher opportunity to win because he has to guess fewer times to do so. And on the flip side, if you create a situation like we have in DOA 4 where nothing is guaranteed, you force people to guess more often but in so doing also force them to keep track of every minor deviation from a persons pattern, which allows the "true" higher level player more opportunities to capitalize on how well he's been keeping track of his opponents bad habits.

I can't argue that this is completely wrong, but it was executed horrendously in 4. Furthermore the game becomes so convoluted that it literally isn't any fun to play for the average competitive player. It's like a giant game of Flash Cards.

IMO, 3rd Strike (and the SFIII series in general) is a good example of a yomi heavy game with alot of guessing.

EDIT: Here's an example of a good competitive game with "guesses."

J makes a bunch of good "reads/guesses against Kokujin. This is all he needs really since Makoto is designed to be able to capitalize of a 1 or 2 guesses with big damage.

 

[rximmortal]

And as i can see . You still dont get the point.
I am talking about DOA5 not older DOAs.
How can i play a game if i dont like it. And how i can come in forum of the game i like and start flaming about it being stupid....
It has nothing to do with that if i have played DOAs or no, before.
I played many 2d and 3d fighting games , professionaly and not.
And i stopped to this one. And i will never blame myself for this decision!!!

 

[d3v]

And as i can see . You still dont get the point.
I am talking about DOA5 not older DOAs..

So are we.

We're talking about how the lack-of-stagger-escape glitch makes DOA5 1.03 a better game.

 

[Raansu]

 

[rximmortal]

So are we.

We're talking about how the lack-of-stagger-escape glitch makes DOA5 1.03 a better game.

The Guaranteed BIG damage combos dont make the game unique , it makes it just one of the other.
And on the fact that Combo starter moves in this game are pretty easy applyable , This glitch just break the game fundamentaly. I just hope TeamNinja know this.

 

[Raansu]

The Guaranteed BIG damage combos dont make the game unique , it makes it just one of the other.
And on the fact that Combo starter moves in this game are pretty easy applyable , This glitch just break the game fundamentaly. I just hope TeamNinja know this.

There is nothing about this glitch that breaks the games fundamentals, NOTHING.

 

[Doug Nguyen]

After seeing what Kasumi can do in the Home stage, i think the SE glitch needs some re working. But its a good start though, just needs tweeking.