Team NINJA's Mishandling of DOA6

[human013]

I'd like to know what shit you're smoking because DOA6 not only didn't try catering to the competitive scene, but is the least competitive DOA game in the series history, with the most anti competitive, scrubiest mechanics TN could come up with.

Reducing tits size and jiggling doesn't mean catering to the competitive scene.

Trying to cater to the competitive scene

• "I'm a fighter"
• Interview responses and outfit decisions
• Censorship mode for who exactly?

Surely these things had no connection to making the game look legitimate and get into Evo... Reducing tit size and jiggling... It was all for the fans...

Trying and failing aren't mutually exclusive. And just like you guys losing your shit over a one frame change, the other side of DOA loses their shit over a one pixel change. Stop acting like the fanservice side doesn't matter when it's always the first thing people talk about and has the ability to hurt DOA the most. DOA having shit gameplay is the norm to people so no one cares about that because it's not news. Where were all the articles covering DOA6's bad gameplay? By the time DOA6's gameplay was considered shit by you guys, people long stopped caring about DOA6. Most of the damage occurred when people here were still saying "Meter adds depth".

I don't ever see a vast majority of competitive SF5 and SC6 players crying foul over sexy costumes (seriously, have you seen some of their stuff?)

lol. I said the same thing not too long ago. And I have seen them but DOA has outfits as risque or even more risque too.

Spoiler

At least that is what I'm told. DOA5 is full of stuff like this.

why would competitive DOA players be so easily bothered by sexy costumes even now?

Asking the same question I had. lmao. Because DOA was never about fanservice and sexy costumes/ never had them until DOA5

Spoiler

is what I'm told and have been told countless times

Yes, the prices on the season passes are outrageous, and the hair color incident was FUBAR, no doubt. But as someone who actually is a competitive DOA player that knows others of my ilk, the costumes and the T&A itself not as big a deal to most of the DOA competitive scene as you think it is. Like the OP said, there's a time to show off the fanservice, and there's a time there is not, such as that US division of the Evo stream.

Mind you, Evo was sanctioned by ESPN at the time, and given that certain costumes (like Rainbow Mika's default costume) couldn't be used in SF5 matches at Evo, it was simply not a good time to show off the camera feature's, ahem... "capabilities". And even if that incident never happened, there were plenty of appropriate costumes in DOA6 to work around with in spite of the availability of sexier costumes, so your point about "catering" to the competitive scene is moot. To my knowledge, competitive DOA players never needed to be "catered to" with cosmetics. Most of them are either indifferent to it or embrace it, including me. But that doesn't mean a FAMILY-FRIENDLY network like ESPN has to.

As for that skin-covering screenshot you posted to back up whatever claim it is you're trying to make, that skin-covering feature was added WAY later after launch, and it couldn't have been to cater to the competitive scene, much less E-sports... no, that ship already sailed by the time that happened. The most logical reason that happened was to sell the game in China, given the fact the DOA5 mobile game was not only exclusive to China, but also had the same kind of censorship with certain character art portraits. It wouldn't make sense to have that skin-covering feature specifically for E-sports, because there were plenty of appropriate costumes to work around that if DOA6 actually had a shot at Evo. China has a huge market, so if any reason, that feature was made to cater to that market.

Again, nothing to do with "catering" to the DOA competitive scene. That is business.

You know how when fighting game players see the term auto combo and instantly go "Game has no depth, it's casual, no point in playing" without ever playing it? It's the same thing but from the other side of DOA. The side that actually gets people talking and gets attention. The damage was already done not long after the reveal of the game.

Sure ESPN and all that stuff, but was DOA, before that day, a game the FGC respected and took as a legitimate fighting game? And all it took was core values to make it fall from grace? I'm not saying what happened that day was fine. I'm saying don't pin the issues in DOA to that one day when DOA still has the same reputation it has always had. DOA6's issue started way before that.

You say TnA is not a big deal to the competitive scene but that doesn't make it any less important. You guys aren't the only people into this series. Mishandling DOA6 means mishandling both sides, and the competitive scene does not have greater importance than the fanservice side. Again, more damage was done from the fanservice side than the gameplay side. It's also business to keep the established fanbase coming back and that includes the fanservice people. Saying things and doing things to turn them away doesn't help anybody.

 

[Sotherius]

Mishandling DOA6 means mishandling both sides, and the competitive scene does not have greater importance than the fanservice side.

Model sizes didn't change and the fanservice side can screw off. Doa5 is the fanservice outlier in having too much, DOA 6 isn't tame at all compared to doa 1-4.

 

[crapoZK]

What's the point of stating whether you are a competitive player or not? You don't need to be one to see the issues in DOA and DOA's gameplay isn't the thing keeping the series alive lol. Trying to cater specifically to the competitive scene is what got DOA into this mess.
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People are really overplaying the core values event like if it didn't happen then DOA would have been this well respected game or something. As if DOA1-4 and DOAX don't exist, or the DLC people happily supported didn't exist. There's a reason why the main game after Itagaki left had a "I'm a Fighter" slogan. If DOA was always a respectable fighter everyone took seriously then that slogan would have been redundant and not needed. That alone already says a lot about DOA as a whole and Itagaki.

After DOA5LR, people respected DOA and saw it as a legitimate fighter and DOA6 was the game that ruined it? Now that's just wishful thinking.

DOA6 was already doomed when the game whose main appeal was fanservice announced it was going to tone it down and then covered up the poster girl's default outfit. People who actually played the games rose up in arms and the people who don't play it just got more reasons to avoid it/ spread negative press. And that was all before the trash gameplay and horrible launch. Then, even if the gameplay was perfect the game wouldn't have been salvageable because of the DLC practices.

The issues start at the core of DOA.

I know everybody’s entitled to their opinion, but;

Oh brother, this guy stinks.

If you actually read the whole thing (I know I said you didn’t have to, but you probably should’ve) you’d know I mentioned there was more than the Core Values debacle that made DOA6 flop, and also stated that what was done wasn’t the issue. It was WHERE. Stop straw manning so that you can twist the narrative to be a community issue. DOA has and always had it’s abundance of fanservice and times where they go too far. Still isn’t the only reason why DOA6 failed critically, commercially and competitively. DOA6 being a bad game is why DOA6 did terribly. There was no content good enough for the casual players to get, and the gameplay was garbage for the competitive players. Why do you think the casuals fucked off to DOAXVV and the competitive players are going back to DOA5LR. Do the maths.

Failing to deliver satisfaction to both ends of the customer base results in a bad product. Simple.

The main point is that TN were starting to build said “serious” reputation for DOA6 SPECIFICALLY, up until EVO Japan. This tarnished the press run for DOA6, SPECIFICALLY. Not the franchise as a whole.

DOA tries(d) to cater to the competitive scene in the early stages but never once did they stop doing the shit that they’ve been doing since DOA1. For the most part other than your average troll and people rightfully disliking the DLC manoeuvres, DoA5 up to LR was quite a respected game. Respected =\= Highly Played Competitively, nor does it mean large competitive community. There’s a reason why there’s been so many Core Fighters downloads.

While I can agree there were tones of them “catering” when framing the marketing run (As I said in the OP), you can see that the voice being used was “Hey, we want to be serious” but delivering the antithesis, while having the shittiest brain dead version of itself out, quite obviously negates that.

When it comes down to it, they wanted to have as much people playing as possible for their world tour and they thought making it this boringly easy was the best way to do it. We all know this went horribly wrong.

Censoring was for selling the game in China since it always gets banned there, and was included way after release.

You gotta stop being so adamant about acting as if we collectively as a competitive community hate the fanservice as well. We (in the case of competitive players [as a majority]) just don’t care about it in the same way others do.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Still isn’t the only reason why DOA6 failed critically, commercially and competitively.

People who are 'far off' like to believe that their reason for not purchasing the game is the reason the game failed.

The main point is that TN were starting to build said “serious” reputation for DOA6 SPECIFICALLY, up until EVO Japan.

I'd still argue that that 'build' ended after Evo 2018 Demonstration 8 months prior.

 

[crapoZK]

I'd still argue that that 'build' ended after Evo 2018 Demonstration 8 months prior.

I can agree with that notion, actually. Things suddenly started to go in different direction (definitely left) closer to the game’s release.

It really almost seemed like something went down for them to change the tone of voice in order to drive sales at a random point behind the scenes, since DLC and F2P numbers for DOA5 pointed towards what people were buying the most out of what they offered.

 

[Matt Ponton]

It really almost seemed like something went down for them to change the tone of voice in order to drive sales

Yeah after that point you never heard the I'm a Fighter slogan, and the only people getting beta builds were vtubers for a 30 minute stream. Cold shoulder was given to tournament organizers looking for beta builds to run free events on.

 

[human013]

If you actually read the whole thing (I know I said you didn’t have to, but you probably should’ve) you’d know I mentioned there was more than the Core Values debacle that made DOA6 flop, and also stated that what was done wasn’t the issue. It was WHERE. Stop straw manning so that you can twist the narrative to be a community issue. DOA has and always had it’s abundance of fanservice and times where they go too far. Still isn’t the only reason why DOA6 failed critically, commercially and competitively. DOA6 being a bad game is why DOA6 did terribly. There was no content good enough for the casual players to get, and the gameplay was garbage for the competitive players. Why do you think the casuals fucked off to DOAXVV and the competitive players are going back to DOA5LR. Do the maths.

And if you read the first 8 words I wrote in regards to that then you would know what I was addressing specifically. Stop doing math and just read what's on the screen. No one is denying that DOA6 is shit.

Failing to deliver satisfaction to both ends of the customer base results in a bad product. Simple.

No shit Sherlock, that's what I'm saying.

The main point is that TN were starting to build said “serious” reputation for DOA6 SPECIFICALLY, up until EVO Japan. This tarnished the press run for DOA6, SPECIFICALLY. Not the franchise as a whole.

DOA tries(d) to cater to the competitive scene in the early stages but never once did they stop doing the shit that they’ve been doing since DOA1. For the most part other than your average troll and people rightfully disliking the DLC manoeuvres, DoA5 up to LR was quite a respected game. Respected =\= Highly Played Competitively, nor does it mean large competitive community. There’s a reason why there’s been so many Core Fighters downloads.

While I can agree there were tones of them “catering” when framing the marketing run (As I said in the OP), you can see that the voice being used was “Hey, we want to be serious” but delivering the antithesis, while having the shittiest brain dead version of itself out, quite obviously negates that.

When it comes down to it, they wanted to have as much people playing as possible for their world tour and they thought making it this boringly easy was the best way to do it. We all know this went horribly wrong.

Censoring was for selling the game in China since it always gets banned there, and was included way after release.

You gotta stop being so adamant about acting as if we collectively as a competitive community hate the fanservice as well. We (in the case of competitive players [as a majority]) just don’t care about it in the same way others do.

DOA5 used the "I"m a fighter" slogan and then quickly turned to a dress up game. The main point is that people were already shitting on DOA6 before core values because TN was just pulling the same stunt. No one was believing what TN said about being "serious".

 

[crapoZK]

No shit Sherlock, that's what I'm saying.

If we can at least come to this agreement, then say less.

“DOA5 used the "I"m a fighter" slogan and then quickly turned to a dress up game. The main point is that people were already shitting on DOA6 before core values because TN was just pulling the same stunt. No one was believing what TN said about being "serious"

Watching what people outside the community were saying, besides your obvious troll or people with grudges on DOA, there were some people were being wary about it rather than it being trashed before it dropped. Rightfully so.

From an external point of view, there was a large amount of people who were down to at least get the game / learn it based on what they were seeing, which is why it’s grace period (First 2-3ish weeks) a decent number of people from other 3D fighting games were on the game. It’s why you could run into the most random known FGC figures on the game in ranked. For some, before 6 was revealed it was “DOA Kappa”, and then the same people turned around and said: “DOA6 looks okay, might try it”. Again, it’s because it was abundantly shit which is what didn’t keep them playing.

We can’t say “No one” about it when it’s quite clear that we have 2 different sides to the pizza. We obviously saw different things and talking about people’s perceptions will have us talking for days and nobody’s trying to do that.

I’m not acting as if I don’t know what this game is / has been and the place it has in the FGC. I didn’t expect DOA6 to be some main stage game with 3,000 people playing constantly each platform. If the game was good, it probably could’ve done half that at most. I’m not speaking in ultimatums for human beings.

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

Yeah, funny thing is I literally was telling the "DOA is going SJW!" crowd that the serious stuff was just marketing and that DOA6 would have boobpads and shit on release and fetish DLC in the first month and that's exactly what happened. But they were so adament in their minds that DOA6 was on this anti sexy costume policy and just ignored what I said. Even when I mentioned that they did this same exact thing with DOA5 which ended up being the game with the most fanservicey stuff ever lol.

It's also really funny to me how their logic is flawed Samus Aran in a skin tight suit that covers her whole body is lewd and sexy but when Kasumi has a skin tight body suit that covers her whole body it's "sjw" pandering and censorship.

 

[Onryoki]

Imagine going on a fighting game for TnA. Isn’t it the entire point of a competitive game to be more focused on the competitive side? I don’t understand the people that are complaining about the lack of fanservice. The DOAX series was made for exactly that, so play that.

I always try to see things from the fanservice community’s perspective, but I honestly just can’t. I really don’t understand the obsessive sexualisation of fictional characters from a fighting game. The incessant whining and complaining, about so called breast size reduction and censoring, it’s just too much. To me it doesn’t even seem about the “fanservice” anymore, but it lies deeper within.

I honestly think, these types of people are trolls, deliberately trying to ruin a game, because they got the power to do so. I really don’t think cleavage shots, panty shots, Ryona, etc are a part of DOA. That’s something the Ryona community brought to DOA. DOA always had sexy costumes, nobody is complaining about that. But at the end of the day, DOA is and always will be a fighting game, which should be it’s main priority.

Other fighters also have “fanservice”, but the difference between them and DOA is the fact that other fighting game communities don’t make such a big deal out of it when a character isn’t wearing something skimpy anymore. it’s just sad how, grown ass adults take it so seriously if a fictional character wears something less revealing. Like, get it together.

 

[UpSideDownGRUNT]

A big part of it is probably how DOA as a whole relies on the fanservice to sell it's game, which has been a thing since DOA1 marketing material always focused on the girls and CG renders of the girls in bikinis. The EU version of DOA2 had Helena in a bikini ON THE DISC! and anytime it was featured in OPM it was usually Tina, Ayane or Leifang in a bikini. So I understand why it's such a big deal for only DOA and nothing else, SC6 has bikini armours that barely leave anything to the imagination and 2B the most lusted after video game character in recent memory (until Alcina Dimitrescue) yet nobody bats an eyelid because SC6 wasn't marketed around that but DOA usually is.

Which is why the whole "I'm a Fighter" promo stuff genuinely doesn't work because at the end of the day fanservice is such a huge part of the game that the fighting game always takes a back seat and I don't think that will ever change. It also doesn't help that DOA6 had 2 marketing schemes for the West and East, TN telling the Western journalists DOA6 is shying away from fan service and going eSports while simultaneously telling the East that DOA will still have fanservice and DLC costumes etc. It's almost like they expect people to not follow any news on the game at all or pretend we don't have the internet and can't see all the JP marketing stuff lol.

Just be honest and market the game as a fanservice game but also highlight it's genuine fighting game stuff. like DOA has had WiFi indicators, in game frame data and a substantial tutorial since DOA5/5+ in 2012/2013. Yet bigger titles like Tekken and SF only just recently got these additions.

 

[Fiend Busa]

Seems like Team Ninja decided it was time to give DOA the gold ole Ninja Gaiden 3 treatment. Give it about 8 years and Team Ninja might remember to do something with DOA.

In all seriousness...I dropped DOA6 a month after release as it just felt off and empty....years later, I didn't realize it was this bad 0.0

 

[Awesmic]

Imagine going on a fighting game for TnA. Isn’t it the entire point of a competitive game to be more focused on the competitive side? I don’t understand the people that are complaining about the lack of fanservice. The DOAX series was made for exactly that, so play that.

I always try to see things from the fanservice community’s perspective, but I honestly just can’t. I really don’t understand the obsessive sexualisation of fictional characters from a fighting game. The incessant whining and complaining, about so called breast size reduction and censoring, it’s just too much. To me it doesn’t even seem about the “fanservice” anymore, but it lies deeper within.

I honestly think, these types of people are trolls, deliberately trying to ruin a game, because they got the power to do so.

What you described are clout-chasin' anti-SJWs who miss the point and get caught up in their self-imposed social media crusade against internet puritans doing extra where it's not necessary, not actual fanservice community folk like myself.

The difference between us and them is that we don't lose sleep on social media posting x amount of videos/tweets over x character not having our favorite x game costume - in my case, the red coat from DOA3 - for the umpteenth update of the latest DOA game. There's a thin line between asking for something and being obnoxious. We improvise, bring effective awareness to our favorite costume where it's due to the appropriate social media accounts, keep it moving, vote with our wallets when the costumes do come, and hope for the best. If playing DOA4 for 7 years without updates taught me anything personally, it's patience.

 

[Rikuto]

The right hand did not know what the left was doing.

Shimbori was not doing what marketing wanted, marketing was not doing what the team wanted, the team was not doing what nakamura wanted and nakamura was not doing what shimbori wanted.

 

[deathofaninja]

Well we got a DOA5 tournament starting soon. Looking forward to it.

 

[XxNoriakixX]

"The FGC laughed at the fact the penguin-looking and now world reknown pedophile and groomer "Mr. Wizard" cut the EVO stream"
I can smell the burn up here in Germany lol

 

[crapoZK]

"The FGC laughed at the fact the penguin-looking and now world reknown pedophile and groomer "Mr. Wizard" cut the EVO stream"
I can smell the burn up here in Germany lol

Fuck that guy man lmfaoooo

 

[Seigen]

Those with a guilty conscience are the most prone at virtue signalling.

 

[Rikuto]

Those with a guilty conscience are the most prone at virtue signalling.

Probably not untrue, but at the same time, fuck Mr. Wizard.

 

[Onryoki]

"The FGC laughed at the fact the penguin-looking and now world reknown pedophile and groomer "Mr. Wizard" cut the EVO stream"
I can smell the burn up here in Germany lol

How the tables have turned for him. It still baffles me that he went after underage boys when he’s that much older. I am glad we live in a time where these type of things get spread worldwide.