[DOA2++] Moveset Editing Project

[leidoa]

A Quick Update:

I found where stage values are in the hardcoding - now we can have stages like The Miyama in the randomizer for time attack.
I'm still looking for level select, though. The goal is to enable The Miyama (and maybe other stages) for stage select during versus/training/other modes because it has its own unused stage select icon in the files.

During testing, I tried out stages that had the least errors, making them good candidates for actual stages:

Spoiler: Leon's Desert

Looks good, but missing collisions and the skybox doesn't cover everything, leaving visible holes in the geometry from too many angles.
I might be able to stretch the skybox down to cover the gaps in the geometry.

Spoiler: Bass' Truck Scene

Also looks pretty nice. The truck is missing from the scene when loaded as a level. Missing collisions on walls, can walk out of bounds, more viable than Leon's Desert.
Could be interesting as a stage with more invisible walls than The Island or something.
The scale of everything makes the characters look really small in comparison.

Spoiler: The Miyama

The Miyama and all variations work as they should -- however, something in the game randomizes the miyama stages even when you put the value of a specific one. This wouldn't be a problem, but the randomizer includes a stage that is completely blank, so adding the miyama to the stage randomizer makes it a possibility that you'll end up in a blank stage.

Spoiler: Notes

The rest of the stages are small cutscene levels with no collision+improper sky boxes -- so basically unusable. If I learn how to edit collisions, I might be able to fix Leon's Desert and Bass' Truck Scene to be complete stages.

I'm not sure what's causing the randomizer issue with The Miyama, but I'll keep looking into it, of course.

Spoiler: New Side Project

Spoiler: ?

Spoiler: ??

1: that's amazing that you found out how to make cutscene stage's playable they really look nice especially the bass truck stage i can imagine that stage as an infinite stage similat to tekken stage's , if you can somehow edit the stage to be infinite that will be sick

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2:as for the gameplay mod i think it's better to just keep it as is so it doesn't interfere with the opening cinematics and sparring mode
my ideal mod will be just to replace the old animation with the new ones like ( attacks / stuns / ground stuns / stance /....etc) so the
gameplay looks softer and more realistic like doa4 / doad but still plays like doa2

_______________________________________

3: for tag team stage's i would love to have

The Miyama spring (slope)
Bass truck stage (infinite)
rayhouse (square)
danger zone (explosive)
the burai zenin (slippery)

with this selection you get a variety of different stage functions
_______________________________________

4: last but not least is adding the ( scream voices ) to the stuns and the ( english voice ) from doa2h and doad i would love to have helena's french accent , donno if its possible but it will be a nice addition to the game

_______________________________________

p.s

what's with niki she look really good , is she going to be a test character similar to kasumi a and what kind of style she's going to have
and what about doa3 characters christie , brad wong , hayate ??

 

[usagiZ]

Hey everyone, quick update:

I still haven't figured out the stage wall coding. I'll keep trying though.
You can literally delete all data in the stage.bin and the stage will still work, just without any wall detection.
I have no idea how the game knows where to position the stage objects.

Initial tests to change [getting hit during backdash = hi counter hit] haven't worked, so I have to try something else.

Added another stun -- force backturn:

Spoiler: short video

I recommend watching at 0.5 speed

Everything that raises the combo counter after the stun is guaranteed - it also ignores the stun threshold.
The animation can be sped up if you try to stagger escape.

The characters in the video are the only ones with the stun at the moment.

Spoiler: Question about throws

Throws are pretty quick in DOA2, the slowest throws have an 8 frame startup I think?
I really like how DOA5LR handles the throw frames and It would be pretty easy to switch to.

Should I change it to something like 5-7-10-12 (4-6-8-11 for char's with faster throws) or leave it the way it is? Currently, you can just throw punish with your strongest throw in a lot of situations. Idk, just a thought.

Spoiler: Question about Hayabusa

I'm working on Ryu's moveset, but I don't really know what to do with his handstand stance.
In later games, the handstand isn't really a full stance anymore. I'd appreciate some suggestions for what to do with it.
-Should I try to get it close to the way it's used in later games, or just leave it the way it is?

I also won't be able to mimic his teleports properly. Basically his moveset has been the most difficult so far, which is why I saved it for last lol.

-------------------------------------------------

@leidoa The opening cinematics and exercise in sparring don't work with the new movesets - there's no way around that unfortunately.
The character screams can't be added the way they are in later games, so I won't be doing that :/
I might be able to make an english voice pack eventually, now that I know more about the in-game voice files.
I like your idea for team stages.
Thanks for the suggestions~

Spoiler: about Niki:

I don't really have a solid plan of what her fighting style will be, but I do have a few ideas:

The base character will probably be Helena
I plan to use the unused animations from all the other characters
She'll probably have a few moves from Zack, but edited slightly to fit her more
Holds will be parries/resets or end with the opponent standing or stunned

I would really appreciate some suggestions for this moveset.
Anyone can contribute - this moveset probably won't be done for a long while.

I'm open to costume suggestions as well. Maybe I should just make another thread for Niki? Idk.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

Throws are pretty quick in DOA2, the slowest throws have an 8 frame startup I think?
I really like how DOA5LR handles the throw frames and It would be pretty easy to switch to.

Should I change it to something like 5-7-10-12 (4-6-8-11 for char's with faster throws) or leave it the way it is? Currently, you can just throw punish with your strongest throw in a lot of situations. Idk, just a thought.

Keep it. Throw punishing has always been strong in DOA, and I personally like it a lot.

I'm working on Ryu's moveset, but I don't really know what to do with his handstand stance.
In later games, the handstand isn't really a full stance anymore. I'd appreciate some suggestions for what to do with it.
-Should I try to get it close to the way it's used in later games, or just leave it the way it is?

DON'T YOU DARE TO TOUCH IT
The handstand stance and his break dance moves are the sickest shit ever ask any DOA1/2/3 'busa player. The fact that they dared to remove them in DOA4/5 is a tragedy. The only bad replaceable handstand move in DOA2U is probably 4K imo. The only reason to use it is... by accident lol
P+K is also another useless/never used move

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

I agree with WAZAAAAA about leaving the throws alone. It's too much fun being able to take out half of a life bar as Tengu with just a 6 frame throw. lol

 

[Matt Ponton]

Leave the throws alone. Don't forget that the 7 frame throws allow you to punish whiffed holds easier as well.

And 7 is the slowest startup for throws, 4 being the fastest. But someone who has a 4 frame neutral would have a 6 frame slowest throw.

That doesn't include catch throws (offensive holds) as those are all around the 16 frame mark.

 

[grap3fruitman]

The fact that they dared to remove them in DOA4/5 is a tragedy.

Hayabusa has been dead to me ever since they got rid of the handstand. He had it in early versions of DOA4 too... Ugh

 

[usagiZ]

Thanks for the input everyone~
I'm keeping throw frames the way they are, and leaving hayabusa's handstand where it is! lol


-----Another quick update-----

I've hinted at this in videos, but haven't made a post about it until now:
One of the smaller changes I've made has been removing invincibility from half-wall splats.

Spoiler: Example 1

As you can see, after Ayane slams Bayman into the half-wall, she gets in a few hits of extra damage before he finishes falling.
The way you do this is, slam the opponent into a half-wall with an attack that has quick recovery.

You can then get some extra damage with lows or mids. (High attacks usually whiff, mid/low attacks are more consistent. Quick mids are the best option)
Once a character hits the half-wall, they can't get wall splat again until they touch the ground. This prevents infinites (as far as I know).

Though it was a small change, it made a big impact on the gameplay, allowing combos to be extended in interesting ways.

Spoiler: Example 2

Notice how the 7K ender doesn't re-splat.

Spoiler: Example 3

Caught him during the startup of 9K, so he launched a lot higher. The BKO 6PPK ender doesn't re-splat.

DOA5LR did some interesting things with wall splats and I was inspired. Maybe this could add something dynamic to DOA2U.

Spoiler: Here's a short half-wall-splat combo video

I'm still working on Ryu's moveset. Probably gonna be a week or so before I finish it. If you have any requests, feel free to let me know~

----------------------------------------------------

Spoiler: Last but not least, some recent issues with the patch

I've run into a few cases of the game freezing, and don't really know why that's happening.
My guess is that I've inflated the files too much and it's causing some sort of temporary memory error or storage issue.
It's pretty inconsistent, so I'll try to pinpoint the cause, otherwise woops this will be a lot more broken than I had hoped.

Also, I'm running this on a modded 360 for YT upload reasons. I don't remember any freezing issues when I played it on an original xbox.

It could also be the new costumes and inflated costume afs container files.
Whatever it is, I hope I can find the solution soon.

Sharing this info with the thread because I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking there haven't been issues with adding this much content to the game.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Holy shit DOA2 looks beautiful with more fluid walls. That is some amazing work. How are you making all these move changes? You've managed to port over DOA4/5 moves like Hayabusa's teleports? Holy crap! If that's possible, would it be possible to restore some of the grapplers' locked away moves like this one? Or their air and ground throws? Since you've been able to mess with the wall stuff... have you played at all with the ground? This isn't a request list, I'm just wondering what kinds of other things are possible. When I was trying to rebalance DOA4, trying to give the grapplers tools that weren't just juggles was a challenge, but you and your tools are much more capable. I'd be curious what kind of neat results you could find. Kudos on all your work. I love watching all of this even if I'm too lazy to log in and comment every time.

 

[usagiZ]

How are you making all these move changes?

I've been using hex editors for the moveset changes. There aren't any dedicated moveset tools that I know of :/
Porting animations from compatible games is basically an elaborate copy-paste.
The other stuff is just by studying the way the moves are coded and figuring out which flags do what so I can code custom moves.

Spoiler: A move coding example

Here's a move I'll just make up:
00 00 95 00 01 00 02 00 0A 00 01 00 0D 00 21 00
01 00 1A 00 01 00 0F 00 05 00 1B 00 39 00 01 00
1F 00 2A 00 01 00 45 00 00 00 0A 00 FF FF

This move uses animation 0x95 starting at frame 1 (95 00 01 00)
Uses normal speed (02 00 0A 00)
And at frame 0xD initiates an all-body hitbox (01 00 0D 00) , (21 00 01 00)
Then at frame 0xF, the hitbox is terminated, and allows a string follow-up (01 00 0F 00) , (05 00), (39 00)
At frame 0x1F the rest of the coding is misc things like rotation after the animation ends, and open vs closed stance etc.
The move finally ends (at the end of the animation, not at frame 0x1F)
Move coding is always terminated with FF FF

If that's possible, would it be possible to restore some of the grapplers' locked away moves like this one? Or their air and ground throws? Since you've been able to mess with the wall stuff... have you played at all with the ground?

I could probably make a ground throw at this point, but I still don't know much about air throws - even after looking at Genfu's in 2U.
It's coded more like a combo throw rather than a true air throw. I re-allowed standing throws during his and I was able to connect standing throws with the falling opponent, so it seems to be a "fake" air throw ._.

When I was trying to rebalance DOA4, trying to give the grapplers tools that weren't just juggles was a challenge

Yeah, same :S
Porting throws inflates the moveset file too much, and there's a file-size limit I can't remove, currently. The weird part is, it's different for each character, and switching around moveset files seems to change the limit.

I'd be curious what kind of neat results you could find. Kudos on all your work. I love watching all of this even if I'm too lazy to log in and comment every time.

Thank you~ I'll keep looking for things.
Honestly your DOA4 rebalancing project was a huge inspiration to start looking at the moveset files, even though I couldn't figure anything out until much later.

I'm glad I can bring some interesting things to show here. Also, I'm just happy to have an audience that's interested lol. Comments are nice, but certainly not a requirement. (they do encourage me to post more, though)

 

[dee4doa]

Wow, it's amazing how so much has been discovered since I left. Amazing work usagiZ! simply great how you can convert character movesets from one game to the other.

I have a few questions:

Will you make a tutorial on how to convert movesets? (DOA3->DOA2, DOA4->DOA3 etc) (I'm a derp and still don't really understand it all yet)

Have you tested out this with the Dreamcast version of Dead Or Alive 2? I'm guessing the inputs are different in that game too, though it would be awesome to import Phase-4, Alpha-152, Christie, Brad-Wong and updated movesets back into the Dreamcast.

 

[usagiZ]

Wow, it's amazing how so much has been discovered since I left. Amazing work usagiZ! simply great how you can convert character movesets from one game to the other.

I have a few questions:

Will you make a tutorial on how to convert movesets? (DOA3->DOA2, DOA4->DOA3 etc) (I'm a derp and still don't really understand it all yet)

Have you tested out this with the Dreamcast version of Dead Or Alive 2? I'm guessing the inputs are different in that game too, though it would be awesome to import Phase-4, Alpha-152, Christie, Brad-Wong and updated movesets back into the Dreamcast.

It's nice to see you back~
Well, I haven't been doing total conversions for the movesets, I've just been copy-pasting bits and pieces between games (it's more elaborate than that, but that's the general idea)

I have some tutorials/info here in the thread, and yeah they're kinda lengthy and convoluted ._. but I hope they help~

Spoiler: links to some of the tutorial stuff

Porting Animations
Viewing Unused Animations
Coding Moves (Animation-Definitions)

These methods would absolutely work with the dreamcast version of DOA2
Maybe even the PS2 DOA2 games if someone really wanted to do that - as long as the file types are similar. (character.mot / character.bin)
The games with similar files are DOA2 (all versions I think), DOA3, DOA4 (some byte flipping is necessary for animations), DOA Dimensions (animation files are the exact same format as 2 and 3)

DOA5 and all versions of it have very different motion file formats and I haven't seen any converter for the animations to get them to .mot format yet. (though they reused a lot from Dimensions, so there's gotta be a way...?)
What I really want is something like [.fbx to DOA2 Animation] converter to make animations from scratch! But that'll never happen~ lol
The people making tools for DOA modding really only seem to care for 5LR and DOAX3 :/
(Which makes sense, bc it's current gen and ppl still play it)

 

[DestructionBomb]

I just ran games for DOAO not too long ago. Hit me up for games.

 

[dee4doa]

A Quick Update:

I found where stage values are in the hardcoding - now we can have stages like The Miyama in the randomizer for time attack.
I'm still looking for level select, though. The goal is to enable The Miyama (and maybe other stages) for stage select during versus/training/other modes because it has its own unused stage select icon in the files.

During testing, I tried out stages that had the least errors, making them good candidates for actual stages:

Spoiler: Leon's Desert

Looks good, but missing collisions and the skybox doesn't cover everything, leaving visible holes in the geometry from too many angles.
I might be able to stretch the skybox down to cover the gaps in the geometry.

Spoiler: Bass' Truck Scene

Also looks pretty nice. The truck is missing from the scene when loaded as a level. Missing collisions on walls, can walk out of bounds, more viable than Leon's Desert.
Could be interesting as a stage with more invisible walls than The Island or something.
The scale of everything makes the characters look really small in comparison.

Spoiler: Notes

The rest of the stages are small cutscene levels with no collision+improper sky boxes -- so basically unusable. If I learn how to edit collisions, I might be able to fix Leon's Desert and Bass' Truck Scene to be complete stages.

I'm not sure what's causing the randomizer issue with The Miyama, but I'll keep looking into it, of course.

This is awesome! I found the original DOA2 (Dreamcast and PS2 versions) hardcoded stage selects in the 1st_read.bin (Dreamcast version of XBOX's default.xbe)

Do you have the offset where the values are stored? as I remember in DOA2 (DC and PS2) the stage values in the stage select are 2 number values (0A - Helena's opera stage as an example) and each value is seperated by '00' to seperate each stage value.

I changed one of the stages in the stage select to load some unplayable beta/test stages without file swapping (file swap crashes the game anyway) is this how the values are in DOA2U?

 

[usagiZ]

This is awesome! I found the original DOA2 (Dreamcast and PS2 versions) hardcoded stage selects in the IP.BIN (Dreamcast version of XBOX's default.xbe)

Do you have the offset where the values are stored? as I remember in DOA2 (DC and PS2) the stage values in the stage select are 2 number values (0A - Helena's opera stage as an example) and each value is seperated by '00' to seperate each stage value.

I changed one of the stages in the stage select to load some unplayable beta/test stages without file swapping (file swap crashes the game anyway) is this how the values are in DOA2U?

Yes, I remember this video~
You've figured out so much about DOA2 Dreamcast ._.

I've only managed to get results with the Time Attack stage lineup, the other modes are probably near this area too, though.
I'm also hoping to change some things in stage select, but I haven't done much research on it since then.

Spoiler: Time Attack stage data

(This is in the doa2.xbe)

The stuff circled are the time attack stage values, the other highlighted data is character select stuff, but I haven't been successful in reassigning character slots yet.
(I've edited some of these values, so it probably won't look exactly like this)

 

[WAZAAAAA]

And at frame 0xD initiates an all-body hitbox

holy shit is that how DOA hitboxes work? Hurtbox = hitbox?
DOA4's spectator mode seemed to have an hidden hitbox viewer, the only one in the history of the DOA franchise afaik... and I had no idea what I was looking at, but your brief explanation seems to make sense? See the red squares

(picture courtesy of Rikuto)

 

[dee4doa]

Yes, I remember this video~
You've figured out so much about DOA2 Dreamcast ._.

I've only managed to get results with the Time Attack stage lineup, the other modes are probably near this area too, though.
I'm also hoping to change some things in stage select, but I haven't done much research on it since then.

Spoiler: Time Attack stage data

The stuff circled are the time attack stage values, the other highlighted data is character select stuff, but I haven't been successful in reassigning character slots yet.
(I've edited some of these values, so it probably won't look exactly like this)

Managed to boot DOA2U! I tested your Phase-4 moveset and it works amazingly in the emulator too. Also thanks for the Time-Attack stage offset, with this I'll be able to see what every value corresponds to!

Here's a sneak peek at my progress, as you can tell I've managed to replace a stage value with one that's the wall test stage. I might make a new thread on here for Modding DOA2 (Dreamcast, PS2 and 2U) stages.

I remember with DOAO, a user made a blender importer for DOAO stages, with it you could make your own custom stages! I have an idea, if I can find the blender DOAO stage importer, make a simple stage and export it back, maybe I can figure out how to export it to DOA2U, meaning we could also make our own stages not only for DOAO but also DOA2U!

 

[grap3fruitman]

holy shit is that how DOA hitboxes work? Hurtbox = hitbox?
DOA4's spectator mode seemed to have an hidden hitbox viewer, the only one in the history of the DOA franchise afaik... and I had no idea what I was looking at, but your brief explanation seems to make sense? See the red squares

(picture courtesy of Rikuto)

That's just the camera mode and those red boxes are focus points like you'd find on an SLR camera. Nothing to do with the hitboxes.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

ayy lmao Rikuto lied to the people
but the full body hitbox thing is still interesting

 

[usagiZ]

Managed to boot DOA2U! I tested your Phase-4 moveset and it works amazingly in the emulator too. Also thanks for the Time-Attack stage offset, with this I'll be able to see what every value corresponds to!

Here's a sneak peek at my progress, as you can tell I've managed to replace a stage value with one that's the wall test stage. I might make a new thread on here for Modding DOA2 (Dreamcast, PS2 and 2U) stages.

I remember with DOAO, a user made a blender importer for DOAO stages, with it you could make your own custom stages! I have an idea, if I can find the blender DOAO stage importer, make a simple stage and export it back, maybe I can figure out how to export it to DOA2U, meaning we could also make our own stages not only for DOAO but also DOA2U!
View attachment 24893

This looks promising ++
I'm glad you were able to test out the moveset~

I made a backup of the blender exporter tool a while ago (I didn't make this tool)
This one lets you export your blender model to xpr format.

Spoiler: Quick install notes

You can install this by extracting all the files to the addon folder [Blender > (version number) > scripts > addons]

Then open blender, go to File, User Preferences, Add-ons and find it on the list, and tick the box.

If it's not there try refreshing - you can also choose install from file and find the io_export_doau_xpr.py file included in the download.

Making new stages with it is possible, but I've mainly used it to give costume edits that extra something:
(only works with doa2u at the moment, and sometimes has uv mapping errors - especially with oddly placed triangles in the mesh)

Spoiler: Costume examples

hat and broom are custom objects
-------------

swords on her legs were custom models
-----------

scarf / head cover
------------

backpack, wires, and helmet
------------

the giant pumpkin head, obviously lol

animated texture for the face (similar method as zack's alien costume)

I had a quick look at the stages wall data and didn't figure anything out at first glance, but you can delete all the data in the stage.bin and it will still work, but without wall / floor height detection.
Hopefully stage wall data can be figured out soon -- that, paired with the blender exporter, could make custom stages fully playable.

holy shit is that how DOA hitboxes work? Hurtbox = hitbox?

I'm not too sure about how the hitboxes work exactly, but the values after the 21 00 change which hitbox is active.

21 00 00 00 I haven't gotten to connect, except when used on hold animations
21 00 01 00 is for all-body hitbox
21 00 02 00 is one of the hands, I think
21 00 03 00 is the other hand - etc etc

(the 21 00 and the other value don't necessarily have to be right next to each other like that, iirc, as long as the 21 00 is before the other value)

It could be that the hurtboxes = hitboxes, but there's a few special hitbox values that make me unsure of that, and each character seems to have their own special hitbox list.
Tengu for instance has wing hitboxes, so you could presumably give tengu a move where he hits you with his wings - but I don't think Tengu's wings have hurtboxes.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Woah, CXBX works with 2U Now!? How about 3? does it still play at like 1/8th speed and have controller input locked to specific keys?

I'm not too sure about how the hitboxes work exactly, but the values after the 21 00 change which hitbox is active.

21 00 00 00 I haven't gotten to connect, except when used on hold animations
21 00 01 00 is for all-body hitbox
21 00 02 00 is one of the hands, I think
21 00 03 00 is the other hand - etc etc

(the 21 00 and the other value don't necessarily have to be right next to each other like that, iirc, as long as the 21 00 is before the other value)

It could be that the hurtboxes = hitboxes, but there's a few special hitbox values that make me unsure of that, and each character seems to have their own special hitbox list.
Tengu for instance has wing hitboxes, so you could presumably give tengu a move where he hits you with his wings - but I don't think Tengu's wings have hurtboxes.

The way the systems work is hitboxes are associated to the location of the bone (for animation). The question is really if the hitbox (hitsphere) is different from the hurtbox before it. The system plays animations, and it just turns a hurtbox into a hitbox at specific frames. You're getting values different per character because each character may have different bones than another, for example wings on Tengu, Ayane's bandana, Coats, etc.