DOA5 and Sexualization: Too Much?

[KasumiLover]

Spoiler

Ok, forgive me if i sound harsh, but you've made pretty clear in a bunch of posts and threads that you basically only like/dislike things based on how sexually appealing they are to you. It might not be truth, but is what you show, that nothing else besides how attractive something is to you matters. Again, it might not be the case, but is what you show. And that is pretty different from liking a design for other aspects, or liking a character for other reasons, like playstyle, background or anything else.

Back on topic, Honoka has potential, Marie has potential, even Misaki has potential, TN just needs to give its characters proper attention and development.

I like characters based on playstyles too, if any of you hadn't noticed I play up that aspect since regardless on me being serious you'll just sexualize everything I say when it's not always like that and assume that's all I know(Even tho I do discuss gameplay of characters I enjoy and have contributed, but everyone seems to turn a blind eye to that xD) thus I play it up much how Liu Shan from Dynasty warriors plays up his childish ignorance to his advantage.

And yeah the potential for Marie and Honoka could be shown if they didn't make their storylines seem to basically be just going to the beach and being cash cows for TN without any established stories besides their bio. Honoka has that Honoka fu thing but if you just play X3 you wouldn't even know and would probably think she's just your typical pink haired big boobed airhead

 

[Crazy_Chin_Guy]

Ok so if you see a character you're interested in in a magazine and you like their design and appearance, then that's "shallow"....so everyone here must be then, since liking their appearance and design is a part of you using said character XD

It's just a picture of a new character, I'm curious about her but I'm not like "OMG NEW MAIN" because i know nothing of her besides her appearance. As far as I'm concerned she's just big tiddy lady number 400.

 

[KasumiLover]

It's just a picture of a new character, I'm curious about her but I'm not like "OMG NEW MAIN" because i know nothing of her besides her appearance. As far as I'm concerned she's just big tiddy lady number 400.

Then again you don't like most of the DOA girls anyway XD from what I've seen you post you only use Jann Lee, Eliot that one time when you said you'd learn him and you use your day one Akira so I can't honestly see you using her tbh

I'm hoping she'll maybe be sporty and use some sort kickboxing or something like akido, anything that's easy and not a collage like Honoka was. I like her design but her fighting style could've been done differently

 

[Mayor-Of-Mustard]

It's just a picture of a new character, I'm curious about her but I'm not like "OMG NEW MAIN" because i know nothing of her besides her appearance. As far as I'm concerned she's just medium tiddy number 1.

fixed lol. she looks like a c or maybe a d at the biggest. then again i don't understand the japanese bewb system so who knows

and damn these arguments. i'm getting late 2015-early 2016 hot guy/gal thread flashbacks.

 

[KasumiLover]

I'm not arguing, people just seem to like to just basically come at me all because I genuinely like the new girl and have accepted that this is the route TN is gonna take. We probably won't see a male character until DOA6

 

[TRI Mike]

More than the sexualization. DOA5's problem seems to be that the overall theme and artistic integrity went down the toilet long ago. Which bothers me because they seemed to be going in a good direction in DOA5 vanilla. I honestly don't care if they make sexy costumes for the girls as long as they fit with their personalities and fighting styles. Which is why I'm annoyed by Helena, the most elegant girl in the series having one of those Xtreme gemstone swimsuits. It looks hot, of course it does, but it doesn't fit Helena. Maybe Nyotengu, Christie or another one with a slutty attitude. But Helena¿ Come on... And that happens with a lot of costumes like Jann Lee's dragon furry thing or Bayman's absurd Frankestein costume that just make them look retarded rather than funny. And don't even get me started on the collaboration packs.

I've always thought that DOA's bad reputation as a sexualized fighter is unfair because pretty much every japanese fighting game is guilty of this. Street Fighter has Cammy's ass, KOF has Mai's boobs bouncing since the 90s, Soul Calibur's Ivy has costumes that would make any DOA girl jealous. Especially in SC4. I believe it just started as a joke back in the DOA1 days and it just kinda stuck, people got used to bashing the series for that without actually giving it a chance and they kept playing their other japanese fighters that also has sexualized girls.

Personally, I've seen Marie Rose and Honoka's arrival as something amazing because I do like the moe art style and gameplay-wise, they're two of the most interesting fighters the series has. But especially in Honoka's case, she definitely needs more casual clothes and fighter outfits. I think she only has like... five of those¿ out of like 60 costumes. Most of her selection just doesn't fit with the game's fights and while she kinda looks cute in a magical girl outfit or a sexy maid dress, it just doesn't seem to fit with the game to me.

If I had complete creative control over a possible DOA6. I definitely would continue exploiting the sex appeal of the girls, because that sells and if done correctly, looks cool (Tina's C1, Honoka's yellow bikini, Leifang's orange dress, etc) but paying close attention to giving each of them costumes that complement their styles and personalities. Enought with the bath towels, clothers from unrelated characters, Halloween and Christmas bullshit.

 

[Mayor-Of-Mustard]

If I had complete creative control over a possible DOA6. I definitely would continue exploiting the sex appeal of the girls, because that sells and if done correctly, looks cool (Tina's C1, Honoka's yellow bikini, Leifang's orange dress, etc) but paying close attention to giving each of them costumes that complement their styles and personalities. Enought with the bath towels, clothers from unrelated characters, Halloween and Christmas bullshit.

I APPLAUD YOU!!! THIS IS IT! THIS IS IT BAYBEEE! WHERE'S DA LOVE BUTTON??
I also wouldn't mind having the classic 4-costume packs back. It was so exciting, like a lotto ticket to see who got a costume next, lol.

 

[TRI Mike]

It's just the logical thing to do. I've always wondered who actually pays for those lame costumes they keep releasing¿ I was watching a stream the other day and it had Bayman dressed as Frankestein vs. Hayate in a Christmas outfit. It was impossible to pay attention to the matches (they were good players) because of the utter stupidity of the clothes. Same with the girls' when dressed as Senran Kagura or Atelier characters.

I love Senran and Atelier but they just don't fit with the DOA fighters. Team NINJA needs to realize this before it's too late.

 

[Chapstick]

I think SK and DOA are a good fit with each other. The outfits just about all fit the characters they chose (even if personalities weren't similar they still worked well like with Nyo, Mila, and Helena) and Ayane's inclusion in SKEV felt completely natural.

Atelier I agree with you

 

[Sotherius]

Ayane doesn't fit senran kagura at all... or DOA. DOA is about ninjas, and over the top fighting with sexyness, and Senran Kagura is just pure fanservice with no substance whatsoever, and with an artstyle that is too cartoonish for the DOA aesthetics (even the old artstyle).

Anyways, i'm together with @TRI Mike on the subject in general.

 

[Chapstick]

Ayane doesn't fit senran kagura at all... or DOA. DOA is about ninjas, and over the top fighting with sexyness, and Senran Kagura is just pure fanservice with no substance whatsoever, and with an artstyle that is too cartoonish for the DOA aesthetics (even the old artstyle).

Senran Kagura's about ninjas and over the top fighting with sexyness lol

& saying it has no substance makes you like the people who say DOA doesn't either because they take it at face value

 

[Sotherius]

Senran Kagura's about ninjas and over the top fighting with sexyness lol

& saying it has no substance makes you like the people who say DOA doesn't either because they take it at face value

Well, i tried to research about Senran Kagura, but the games have nothing, like, they seem like musous, but shallower and the game seems to be just around the girls getting naked while transforming. DOA as a fighting game is incredibly deep gameplay wise, and the same goes for the Ninja Gaiden series as action games, and Senran Kagura has not showed anything gameplay wise so far.

Saying to me that the ayane in senran kagura is faithful to this or that Senran Kagura fits any of this:

Or this:

Or this:

Sounds just absurd to me.

I don't know, i can be wrong, and i am willing to admit that, but i would need some proper proof that Senran Kagura can deliver gameplay in the first place, and that it has interesting characters and not just fap designs.

That would be off topic, so, if someone willing to do that, we can exchange ideas via PM or something.

 

[werewolfgold]

I like characters based on playstyles too, if any of you hadn't noticed I play up that aspect since regardless on me being serious you'll just sexualize everything I say when it's not always like that and assume that's all I know(Even tho I do discuss gameplay of characters I enjoy and have contributed, but everyone seems to turn a blind eye to that xD) thus I play it up much how Liu Shan from Dynasty warriors plays up his childish ignorance to his advantage.

You believe this is to your advantage somehow? Well...okay.

I'm not excited for her possible fighting style because if Marie and Honoka are the new world order, then that means it's just going to be some nonsense.

And even if it's done seriously, what are we going to get? Momiji is already supposed to be some manner of aikido and that will likely get fleshed out more in the next game. It could be straight judo, which would be interesting given the nature of the game. But, you know what would be more interesting? Someone from a country that we don't already have 10 other characters from. A design that doesn't look like the last one they just cranked out. A design that displays a hint of self-awareness. But, I guess all this doesn't matter unless they actually intend to port her to the fighting game side.

I've always thought that DOA's bad reputation as a sexualized fighter is unfair because pretty much every japanese fighting game is guilty of this. Street Fighter has Cammy's ass, KOF has Mai's boobs bouncing since the 90s, Soul Calibur's Ivy has costumes that would make any DOA girl jealous. Especially in SC4. I believe it just started as a joke back in the DOA1 days and it just kinda stuck, people got used to bashing the series for that without actually giving it a chance and they kept playing their other japanese fighters that also has sexualized girls.

I think other games are able to "get away with it" more (though whether SC really did is questionable) because they were better at not having the sexy women be the "point". They were able to control the narrative better and they didn't treat the rest of their characters as second-class citizens so to speak. As a minor example, while DOA2 had an art gallery that was just the female characters in bikinis, SC1-4 had an art gallery filled with anything and everything. There's a way to have it be more "balanced" with the girls still being sexy.

 

[KasumiLover]

You believe this is to your advantage somehow? Well...okay.

I'm not excited for her possible fighting style because if Marie and Honoka are the new world order, then that means it's just going to be some nonsense.

And even if it's done seriously, what are we going to get? Momiji is already supposed to be some manner of aikido and that will likely get fleshed out more in the next game. It could be straight judo, which would be interesting given the nature of the game. But, you know what would be more interesting? Someone from a country that we don't already have 10 other characters from. A design that doesn't look like the last one they just cranked out. A design that displays a hint of self-awareness. But, I guess all this doesn't matter unless they actually intend to port her to the fighting game side.


I think other games are able to "get away with it" more (though whether SC really did is questionable) because they were better at not having the sexy women be the "point". They were able to control the narrative better and they didn't treat the rest of their characters as second-class citizens so to speak. As a minor example, while DOA2 had an art gallery that was just the female characters in bikinis, SC1-4 had an art gallery filled with anything and everything. There's a way to have it be more "balanced" with the girls still being sexy.

Not advantage, basically people can make of me what they will, I'll play whatever role you feel I am if it amuses you. And tbf Marie Rose brought a unique style and appearance to the table with no copy paste, Honoka was a rushed attempt to cash in on Marie's popularity so they used her same general design but gave her big boobs and a more voluptuous figure, pink hair and gave her that weird move thief power. Her actual fighting style is not at all unique bar her one special stance and maybe her idle pose.

In terms of style they could give her anything, although it'll likely be some Japanese martial art. It could also just be street fighting but it'll likely be something they can do quickly, assuming they even add her. For all we know they could be saving her for DOA6 and she's just exclusive to that new PC X3 game for the time being

 

[werewolfgold]

I don't want to go too far off the deep-end in regards to focusing on Misaki, but insofar as she is related to how TN is treating their characters, I'll mention that the Famitsu scan says that she's some kind of student who is close to the "owner" (you) and claims to be your "exclusive supporter/helper." So, I guess she helps you out around the island. She is "energetic".

I assume more will be revealed on Saturday, but...it doesn't seem promising. My gut feeling is that she'll just be for this DMM game. Maybe she's the lifeguard or something.

 

[TRI Mike]

I think other games are able to "get away with it" more (though whether SC really did is questionable) because they were better at not having the sexy women be the "point". They were able to control the narrative better and they didn't treat the rest of their characters as second-class citizens so to speak. As a minor example, while DOA2 had an art gallery that was just the female characters in bikinis, SC1-4 had an art gallery filled with anything and everything. There's a way to have it be more "balanced" with the girls still being sexy.

Yeah, this actually makes sense. But still, DOA has always been a very good fighter and I've seen time and again how people who made fun of the series ended up liking it once they tried it. Trust me, I've seen this a loooot of times. The problem is not the the sexy girls and fanservice, it's the players doing whatever in their power to pretend they don't like it.

I admit that Team NINJA's approach at marketing the game hasn't been the best as well. They focus too much on the girls while giving nothing to the guys. I suppose it's because the girls' costume sell way more but it really annoys me that TN just seems to make whatever they want with those. They forget that the roster is supposed to be a group of martial artists and we end up with the things I mentioned that simply look retarded. Like Jann Lee's dragon furry thing, Leon's werewolf costume or Raidou's golden statue form.

It's impossible to take the game seriously, even as a fan that I am, when I see those. Again, I'm totally OK with them exploiting the sexyness of the girls. I personally like that aspect of DOA and there's nothing wrong with it. I'm a fan of Honoka and Marie myself (the pink-haired copycat has been my main for more than a year now). But I'd rather have her wearing... I dunno, a karate suit like Hitomi's, or a sexy dress like the ones Christie and Kokoro have than a god damned Mahou Shoujo costume that doesn't fit at all with what's she's doing while fighting.

I suppose it's a matter of personal taste but well...

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Well, i tried to research about Senran Kagura, but the games have nothing, like, they seem like musous, but shallower and the game seems to be just around the girls getting naked while transforming. DOA as a fighting game is incredibly deep gameplay wise, and the same goes for the Ninja Gaiden series as action games, and Senran Kagura has not showed anything gameplay wise so far.

Saying to me that the ayane in senran kagura is faithful to this or that Senran Kagura fits any of this:

Or this:

Or this:

Sounds just absurd to me.

I don't know, i can be wrong, and i am willing to admit that, but i would need some proper proof that Senran Kagura can deliver gameplay in the first place, and that it has interesting characters and not just fap designs.

That would be off topic, so, if someone willing to do that, we can exchange ideas via PM or something.

...*Sigh*
I bet you only ever read up on Estival Versus or the Beach Party Splash and never actually read or played the actual games in the series, have you?

Because actually reading up on the story and the games actually show how bleak shit really is and how fucked up shit can hit the fan...despite having fanservicey and over the top characters.
Let me give you an example:
The game on the surface makes it seem like it's the typical good guy vs. bad guy nonsense you've seen before...except the "bad guys" are very much people who are just like the good guys except they went to the wrong school for many reasons, some of which is pretty close to Ayane-tier in how they was pretty much forced to do so(Homura in particular pretty much lost everything simply because she killed someone defending herself and became an "evil" ninja because her mentor tried to kill her first), the new set of "good guys" wants to kill anyone whose "evil" and after the original "bad guys" left, their replacements are just as normal as everyone else...except they actually WILL kill anyone and everyone to make their school the best(and do so in one ending).

Hell and their entire purpose is to stop creatures like these:

Spoiler

From wrecking everyone and anyone and to ultimately bring the very thing that spawns creatures like this into their dimension and end the threat once and for all...

Senran Kagura was obviously built for fanservice but if you actually peeped into the storyline and read along the context, you would realize just how absolutely fucked up that world is....just like Dead or Alive.

 

[werewolfgold]

Senran Kagura was obviously built for fanservice but if you actually peeped into the storyline and read along the context, you would realize just how absolutely fucked up that world is....

Going back to a point I made earlier, do any of SK's trailers even hint at this dark storyline or entice passers-by to want to find out more about the world or are they all just supercuts of clothes falling off and boob jiggling? (Not in the mood to fuck up my YouTube suggestions at the moment but maybe I will be later. lol)

There is the adage "Don't judge a book by its cover." But, if you're also responsible for the covers of your book as well as the content, then you still have to face the music eventually. No one's going to Wiki the individual endings to the game. You can't bank on someone trying to dig underneath 2 or 3 layers of smut to get to the serious commentary you may or may not be hiding. It may very well be srs bzns 50%+ of the time, but are they giving people any reason to believe so?

DOA at least up to DOA5 Ultimate did with most of the trailers I remember. Hell, even the LR launch trailer was pretty damn awesome. The problem is now any trailer they release is of more nonsensical costumes to buy. That's going to be what sticks in people's minds.

 

[Juihau]

Going back to a point I made earlier, do any of SK's trailers even hint at this dark storyline or entice passers-by to want to find out more about the world or are they all just supercuts of clothes falling off and boob jiggling? (Not in the mood to fuck up my YouTube suggestions at the moment but maybe I will be later. lol)

Yes.

 

[Sotherius]

I bet you only ever read up on Estival Versus or the Beach Party Splash and never actually read or played the actual games in the series, have you?

I haven't played the games, no, i got curious because ayane was in one, but then, from what i've seen they haven't made her justice at all, with dumb car flying moves and a raging mountain god that doesn't kill anyone, and making her doing submissive fanservice poses again, and, more important than that, i'm pretty demanding towards action games that i play, and the games seemed incredibly underwhelming gameplay-wise.

You can say: "oh, it is a fucked up story, just like dead or alive", and i'm still trying to convey, that it is not, it is fucked up in its own way, but it is a completely different artstyle, different type of over the top, that doesn't match the DOA series, in my opinion.

Most characters in DOA are awesome, unique, exceptional, and are really interesting on their own right, I haven't seen people saying anything even remarkable about senran kagura characters besides: "she is hot because she is a masochist" or "she is hot because she has abs" or "femjotaro looks cool".

Maybe i'm misjudging the series like i did towards DOA before getting into it, but i doubt Senran Kagura would deliver the kind of gameplay or character design/background/type that would make me change opinions like i did towards DOA.