[Aug 25, 2012] GVN Summer Jam VI - Aug 25 & 26 - Philly,PA (Philadelphia, PA)

[N0rdicNinja]

Hype is high right now! Hope it continues into release.

Good showing from everyone, lots of good matches on stream this weekend! And thanks a ton to all the people who put this together! Much respect!

 

[Keylay]

It'd be the exact opposite of DOA4, we'd go from "nothing is guaranteed" to "everything is guaranteed after a stun, and everything stuns". That would have made DOA5 an even more crappy game than DOA4 in high-level play. I stand by my opinion that DOA5 is not perfect but is definitely the best in the series. I understand that some of us, like grap3 are still doubtful, more still when most players in the streams are simply playing DOA4 no matter what characters they choose.

I think high level players would like it more. Either way, we get a mix of both with some stuns that allow holds and some that don't.

faster CB, less string delay, more safety and frame advantage and a better Helena would make DOA5 pretty much perfect but as of right now, it's a very, very good game in every aspect. That Kasumi vs. Lisa gif is a terrible proof that the stun system is bad.

You forgot to mention longer hold recovery

 

[Vanity Assassin]

I knew he was going to win when I was there earlier today, Congrats!

 

[blasianpersuassion]

Congratulations Lopedo!!!!

 

[grap3fruitman]

It's not the damage, it's that some people in the internet (not speaking about grap3 here) want holds-out-of-stun to be removed completely WITHOUT remaking the stun system. If you have unholdable stuns out of 95% of counter-blows then everything would guarantee everything, even PP strings and that would make the game a 3D iteration of Marvel vs Capcom 3.

THAT'S NOT IT AT ALL. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, LEARN TO READ.

You're arguing against a point that NO ONE EVER MADE. Show me where someone asked for holds to be removed from stun and specifically said not to change the stun system. Show me one post where someone said that. Everyone that has been arguing to holds to be removed from stun has argued for the reduction of stuns.

I would still like to see that happen in DOA's future but it's too late with DOA5 and I know that, that's why in my posts in this thread I've specifically stated that "I want the few "un-hold-able" stuns we have to actually be un-hold-able."

Did I or anyone else ask for all the stuns to be un-hold-able and nothing else touched? Because that's what you're upset about except that no one iterated that thought here or anywhere. Where you keep getting this idea from is beyond me.

You'll never change your opinion no matter what so I'll just stop discussing this with you dude. I dunno if you really like the game and are trolling but I seriously think that if you have so many doubts about it you should simply not buy it and be done with it. It not like the 3D version of MvC3 you seem to want is gonna come out anytime soon.

Why is wanting to make this game better so frowned upon by you?

Also at the lil gif you made trying to explain something Grap3

What did you explain? You re-iterated the things I said. How is that explaining anything?

 

[Game Over]

I'm pretty sure they would want the stun system reworked. Fewer moves stunning and a much smaller stun threshold.

I think the theory is that if you're gonna completely remove holds from stuns, then you also need to have SIGNIFICANTLY fewer attacks cause critical stun, with the bulk of attacks simply leading to various amounts of hit-stun granting the attacker various amounts of frame advantage for following attacks. And the stuns left in should grant some window for landing a guaranteed launcher or knockdown or something. Critical burst would then need to be taken out as well, since it would be pointless and overkill in such a system. Sidesteps would also need some buffs ... and the game ends up becoming something closer to a VF clone.

If what you want is not a VF clone, then you leave holds from stuns in. Now, personally, to improve the system here, I think it would be nice to see extended stuns have some unholdable properties, and attacks landed during the frames of a whiffed hold putting the opponent in an extended stun state (up to max threshold). For example ... opponent gets stunned, immediately low-holds, gets hit by a mid to extend the stun, is now unable to hold for ~15 frames, and the attacker can either go for a critical burst (if fast enough), a fast launcher or knockdown, or jab to extend to max stun threshold and finish however they like. This kind of setup provides a "penalty" for whiffing holds, granting certain guarantees to the attacker. Also, I think the deeper a stun goes, the longer the opponent should be prevented from holding (~15 frames on 1st extend, ~20 frames on 2nd extend, ~XX frames on critical burst).

 

[MasterHavik]

He did well. too bad my black queen couldn't bring hoe the gold.

 

[MrMoon360]

No, that Kasumi was in recovery from the attack that led to the sit-down stun.

What everyone you needs to understand from this gif (I'm hoping this was taken into consideration) is that Lisa countered after the immediate end of the sit-down stun (yes, both her feet were on the ground).

Grap3 man, you're losin' it.
Not your mind, but your credibility, as far as I'm concerned.

It just seems your out on some vendetta to prove DOA5 won't be solid.

Edit:
The only thing that really needs to be up for discussion at this point is hold recovery. The stun in this iteration is fine.

 

[Game Over]

Grap3 man, you're losin' it.
Not your mind, but your credibility, as far as I'm concerned.

It just seems your out on some vendetta to prove DOA5 won't be solid.

DOA5 isn't what he wants it to be. So he's gonna keep blowin' up these stun and hold situations until ... maybe until people just stop responding to him.

 

[blasianpersuassion]

I had a GREAT time at GVN, I'm 100% sure i will be attending GVN in the winter as well Oh and GG's to Allan Paris, and Rikuto even though i got my ass whooped multiple times lol

 

[grap3fruitman]

What everyone you needs to understand from this gif (I'm hoping this was taken into consideration) is that Lisa countered after the immediate end of the sit-down stun (yes, both her feet were on the ground).

Yes, it was taken into consideration: IT WAS IN THE FIRST SENTENCE WHEN I POSTED THE GIF.

Hey Team Ninja, I know you were going for that whole "can't hold until two feet are on the ground thing" but can we please cut the semantics and just make the entirety of the animation on those holds un-holdable?

It just seems your out on some vendetta to prove DOA5 won't be solid.

I want the entirety of the few un-hold-able stuns in DOA5 to be un-hold-able for the entirety of the animation. How is that a "vendetta to prove DOA5 won't be solid?"

DOA5 isn't what he wants it to be. So he's gonna keep blowin' up these stun and hold situations until ... maybe until people just stop responding to him.

Oh look, another retard that can't fucking read.

 

[WiZzYx]

Congrats to Lopedo. It's strange but I never played with him, on Live...fortunately

 

[Game Over]

Oh look, another retard that can't fucking read.

NOTE TO EVERYONE: If you are hellbent on getting a point across, be sure that, in the process of posting your thoughts, you insult people and use colorful expletives. That really serves well to draw more attention to what you are saying!

 

[chocogerman777]

It just seems your out on some vendetta to prove DOA5 won't be solid.

Haha! Does seem that way doesn't it.. but I think grap3 is just trying to keep his expectations really low and he wants others to do the same. Can't say that I blame him. TN hasn't exactly been making the best decisions lately imho.
But one thing is for damn sure.. this game can't be any worse than DoA 4. LOL.

 

[Keylay]

I think the theory is that if you're gonna completely remove holds from stuns, then you also need to have SIGNIFICANTLY fewer attacks cause critical stun, with the bulk of attacks simply leading to various amounts of hit-stun granting the attacker various amounts of frame advantage for following attacks. And the stuns left in should grant some window for landing a guaranteed launcher or knockdown or something. Critical burst would then need to be taken out as well, since it would be pointless and overkill in such a system. Sidesteps would also need some buffs ... and the game ends up becoming something closer to a VF clone.

If what you want is not a VF clone, then you leave holds from stuns in. Now, personally, to improve the system here, I think it would be nice to see extended stuns have some unholdable properties, and attacks landed during the frames of a whiffed hold putting the opponent in an extended stun state (up to max threshold). For example ... opponent gets stunned, immediately low-holds, gets hit by a mid to extend the stun, is now unable to hold for ~15 frames, and the attacker can either go for a critical burst (if fast enough), a fast launcher or knockdown, or jab to extend to max stun threshold and finish however they like. This kind of setup provides a "penalty" for whiffing holds, granting certain guarantees to the attacker. Also, I think the deeper a stun goes, the longer the opponent should be prevented from holding (~15 frames on 1st extend, ~20 frames on 2nd extend, ~XX frames on critical burst).

I don't want holds removed from stun but I do want changes similar to yours. Right now, if a person does the wrong defensive hold, nothing happens. It would be nice if they get put into an unholdable stun. And I want more recovery frames for whiffed holds. Enough so that if you see someone whiff a hold, you can punish before they recover. And a lower stun threshold. The longer the stun threshold, the more guessing is required. That's bad for the attacker and the defender.

 

[MrMoon360]

Yes, it was taken into consideration: IT WAS IN THE FIRST SENTENCE WHEN I POSTED THE GIF.

This is true. I'm addressing anyone that has seen the gif outside your post so they understand why it was even created; you're being a cry baby and want what you want, despite the solidity of what Team NINJA is doing.
I want longer hold recovery myself because I think it would help balance the overall system, but the unholdable stun as is, is fine.

I want the entirety of the few un-hold-able stuns in DOA5 to be un-hold-able for the entirety of the animation. How is that a "vendetta to prove DOA5 won't be solid?"

As previously stated. This is preference.

You seriously need to step back and ask yourself, "What the f**k am I doing here? I'm surrounded by idiots and I'm not going to get my way.. why do I even bother continuing to spew my infallible suggestions?"

There are games out there that have implemented what you suggest. No holds to worry about at any given time (before or after unholdable stuns recovery)
No one is forcing you to stay here grap3, although I'd hate to see the person responsible for bringing me here to leave on an account of a pet peeve.

Edit:

Right now, if a person does the wrong defensive hold, nothing happens.

That statement is not entirely true and this build is not final.
I saw plenty of counters punished at GVN. Its all about the metagame and understanding the new game fully, which no one at this event has shown expertise in. How could they in so little time? DOA4 was played, but until this game can be broken down by the masses, we need to hold our tongue.
One or two perspectives is too few to go off of.

 

[TRI Mike]

Things.

You very well know that many fans on the internet talk about games without really knowing exactly what they're talking about. I was one of those when I arrived here many months ago but I've learned to understand. What people have always complained about in DOA, especially 4, was the defender's ability to hold out of everything. They wanted that taken out without really knowing the consequences of not touching anything else, except for the people who actually knew the game, like the posters here in FreeStepDodge, that's the reason why I stated I wasn't talking specifically about your opinions in the post you quoted before screaming at me.

I will say the same thing I said the last time I had an argument with you. I've come to really like you a lot and respect your opinions about the franchise and I understand that since I'm "relatively" new to the DOA community and haven't proven myself in the game yet, you simply won't take my opinions seriously. But you have to understand that what you are doing is like a very silly journey to prove that the game is bad. Even though the people who have actually played the latest builds and are actually popular for their skill, like Bryan, Erik, Vanessa, NinjaCW and RyuJin have already stated that DOA5 is nothing like DOA4 and that it's probably the best game in the franchise and one of the most solid 3D fighters out there. So it's only logical that most of us here won't take your hate journey seriously.

Besides, I just don't understand why you keep trying to prove your point when the logical thing to do would be to simply not buy the game. I'd also say not post in the forums but that'd be extremely rude and retarded coming from me who, again, still haven't proven myself in the game. I remember when I posted a lot in the MvC3 forums in SRK until I realized I hated the game and simply left the community instead of keeping on hating every day. Besides, I'm pretty sure you're still much better than me but you're not exactly popular for your skill in the game yet. And I see that as another reason to trust other people's opinions over yours.

I just don't want this argument to end in both of us hating each other because ironically, you're the FSD member I speak the most with outside the forums and as I've told you several times in Twitter, I actually agree with the changes you want TN to make but I criticize the fact that you seem to refuse to acknowledge the tons of positive things the developers have made with the game and are extremely focused in trying to prove a point that is simply wrong. I agree with your opinions but not with the way you're stating them. Dead or Alive 5 will be a good game, not perfect, but a VERY good game.

 

[Chris Harris]

Grap3 I'm not going to argue with you anymore. I showed you exactly what happened and why it happened. Evil had 2 opportunities to hit him for FREE with no fear of the counter but he opted for something else. You are using a gif of someone doing the wrong thing and trying to make it seem like the game system FORCED him to do it.

Just go play VF no one is forcing you to play DoA. Why are you here trying to ruin everyone's image or make people not even try the game. We have MANY people who want to try the game and all you do is spend your days thinking of ways to take away from that. If this was my site you would be banned a long time ago because it's obvious you don't want the game to succeed and you aren't going to support a better version of the game that has made progress.

So why are you here again?

 

[chocogerman777]

YI remember when I posted a lot in the MvC3 forums in SRK until I realized I hated the game and simply left the community instead of keeping on hating every day.

You hate Marvel?...

Things are getting heated in this thread. *grabs popcorn*

 

[TRI Mike]

You hate Marvel?...

I don't "hate" it. I probably used the wrong word but I definitely don't like it one bit.