DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread
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UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
To steal your method this is how I'd see it.I'm bored. So I decided to create my own tier list. Thoughts?
SS (Overpowered): None.
S+ (Top Tier):
S (Strong):
S- (High Tier):
A+ (Above average):
A (Balanced):
A- (Below average):
B (Situational):
C (Weak):
D (Unviable): None.
Honestly I wouldn't say any character is unviable or overpowered at the moment. Some characters need buffs/nerfs more than others, though.
SS (Overpowered): None.
S+ (Top Tier):
S (Strong):
S- (High Tier):
A+ (Above average):
A (Balanced):
A- (Below average):
B (Situational):
C (Weak):
D (Unviable): None.
Something like this, I feel people still underestimate Eliot and Kokoro simply because of their flaws, however, I do agree that Alpha and P4 are two of if not the worst two characters in the game simply for how they can be interrupted and destroyed, P4 has her HiC combo damage and wall game but that's the only thing that's truly strong about her.
As for Marie Rose, I admit i'm basing my rank on her 5 Ultimate data so I could be proven wrong, I'm not 100% sure how much better she got in Last Round
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Pretty solid list overall, though I'm interested in a few placements. Firstly, I agree that Kokoro & Lisa are a little on the low side. Ayane is pretty good, but is she really "S+" tier... particularly compared to the characters in the "S" tier. Christie & GenFu are bonafided top tiers but I find that they tend to be more effective in the long run that someone like Ayane. LeiFang I think is likely closer to "S+" tier than Ayane but of course it's subjective. Phase-4 & Leon could also be a little higher too thanks to how well they can capitalize on a correct read or an opened up opponent. But all in all, it's a fair list!I'm bored. So I decided to create my own tier list. Thoughts?
SS (Overpowered): None.
S+ (Top Tier):
S (Strong):
S- (High Tier):
A+ (Above average):
A (Balanced):
A- (Below average):
B (Situational):
C (Weak):
D (Unviable): None.
Honestly I wouldn't say any character is unviable or overpowered at the moment. Some characters need buffs/nerfs more than others, though.
Destructionbomb said:
This is definitely a possibility and debatable and don't really doubt it.
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KING JAIMY
Well-Known Member
I put him on 6. That's not too bad, eh?
Character needs to be explored a bit more IMHO to get a more accurate evaluation overall, but I think I have Akira pegged at the #3-6 slot. I realistically can't see him lower than #7 at the moment.
Black Dragon
Active Member
I thought Ryu's low-mid tier.
I'm seeing more people rate Bass higher on their personal tier lists in contrast to how he was rated a year ago when people still hadn't figured out his full potential.
After further assessment of his Match ups in the past couple months, I'd say his placement right in the middle is fitting, though I would rate him higher than average above Tina and Bayman, around the same level as Leon (Bass does have a better range game and superior whiff punishers) and slightly below Lisa.
The reason why people don't use him is how he plays unlike any other character with how he uses momentum and he can also get boring if you expect something you can constantly play around with. What you see if what you get and he functions as described on the fine print, so the fun ends up being mostly involving the mind games you can enforce.
I've been using Tina for a few months and Tina is closer to the regular archetype of a DOA character and she can't control her offensive momentum as well as Bass can. He's also the best character to force into nitaku with.
However, I find him to be very limited in terms of tools compared to a character like Lisa. They're complete opposites in that regard and that signifies Bass' issues in neutral open space where he requires a patient approach.
Despite these issues, he actually does possess all he needs and if he ends up unchanged in the next patch, that would be perfectly fine as he's pretty much complete. Anything else would be the cherry on top.
After further assessment of his Match ups in the past couple months, I'd say his placement right in the middle is fitting, though I would rate him higher than average above Tina and Bayman, around the same level as Leon (Bass does have a better range game and superior whiff punishers) and slightly below Lisa.
The reason why people don't use him is how he plays unlike any other character with how he uses momentum and he can also get boring if you expect something you can constantly play around with. What you see if what you get and he functions as described on the fine print, so the fun ends up being mostly involving the mind games you can enforce.
I've been using Tina for a few months and Tina is closer to the regular archetype of a DOA character and she can't control her offensive momentum as well as Bass can. He's also the best character to force into nitaku with.
However, I find him to be very limited in terms of tools compared to a character like Lisa. They're complete opposites in that regard and that signifies Bass' issues in neutral open space where he requires a patient approach.
Despite these issues, he actually does possess all he needs and if he ends up unchanged in the next patch, that would be perfectly fine as he's pretty much complete. Anything else would be the cherry on top.
MaxiKilla
Member
Vi
Leifang so high... all because she can spam parry. Besides that akira should be op or Gen fu level since he gets guaranteed combos off of guard breaks. Just seen some akira in action and it's scary.
Don't underestimate how much "spam parry" can work in high level play with someone like Leifang. That's not even the most annoying shit to worry about if you've faced a true Leifang player before, which are her obnoxious crush moves and numerous moves and strings that are safer than they should be. This is only a chunk of what makes her aggravatingly good too. Akira is a Top 5 quality character. "Guaranteed combos" off of guard breaks is a regular thing in VF, and it translates into brutal pressure in DOA5LR.
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
Don't know where you get the idea of Leifang's safety... Her best moves are EXTREMELY unsafe.
9KK: -15
3P+K: -15
2H+K: -18
66K: -12
1P: -12
6P: -12
3P: -13
46P: -12
She has small mixup options within her strings to kind of make up for how unsafe they are, but generally those are also unsafe;
You can mix up 9KK with 9K for -12 or 9KKK for -13
3P+K can be done from multiple strings, like from P2P P+K. After P2P, you can do P for -8 or 2K for -19. Not only are all options unsafe, one sidestep beats everything.
66K can be followed up with another K that's -15.
After 1P you can either do another P being -11, or go into unshu which has high risks against any good player.
After 6P you can go into unshu, do another P for -8, go for K to be at -14, and follow that same K with another P that leaves you at -15 and can be interrupted by i10 jabs. All unsafe options, except the K after unshu, but the opponent had to be sleeping to not react to the unshu.
3P has a bunch of options after it, but only the 3PPP and 3PPKK options are safe.
Her best safe move is 1P+K. Although it's arguably slow, its evasiveness makes up for it. Other than that, she either has to be extremely close for safety (7K, second punch in 4PP), the moves are extremely slow (H+K, 6H+K, last punch in 4PPP), or they are highs (PPP, KK, 8P, 64P).
What makes fighting against Leifang difficult is that she can make people both afraid to block and afraid to attack. All that goes out the window when you space against her though. She is definitely NOT safer than she should be.
9KK: -15
3P+K: -15
2H+K: -18
66K: -12
1P: -12
6P: -12
3P: -13
46P: -12
She has small mixup options within her strings to kind of make up for how unsafe they are, but generally those are also unsafe;
You can mix up 9KK with 9K for -12 or 9KKK for -13
3P+K can be done from multiple strings, like from P2P P+K. After P2P, you can do P for -8 or 2K for -19. Not only are all options unsafe, one sidestep beats everything.
66K can be followed up with another K that's -15.
After 1P you can either do another P being -11, or go into unshu which has high risks against any good player.
After 6P you can go into unshu, do another P for -8, go for K to be at -14, and follow that same K with another P that leaves you at -15 and can be interrupted by i10 jabs. All unsafe options, except the K after unshu, but the opponent had to be sleeping to not react to the unshu.
3P has a bunch of options after it, but only the 3PPP and 3PPKK options are safe.
Her best safe move is 1P+K. Although it's arguably slow, its evasiveness makes up for it. Other than that, she either has to be extremely close for safety (7K, second punch in 4PP), the moves are extremely slow (H+K, 6H+K, last punch in 4PPP), or they are highs (PPP, KK, 8P, 64P).
What makes fighting against Leifang difficult is that she can make people both afraid to block and afraid to attack. All that goes out the window when you space against her though. She is definitely NOT safer than she should be.
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She's safer than most of the cast especially considering that she can do dumb shit like 3P+K, 1P+K, 46P, etc. after moves that tend to keep her safe. Citing 6P, 66K, 1P, etc. as unsafe is misleading because those moves all have follow-ups (like you mentioned), meaning that you need to punish them on "read". Should I list Ayane's, Kasumi's or even Christie's unsafe moves in comparison? I'd probably fill out an encyclopaedia. Leifang is definitely one of the safer characters on the roster compared to most.
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Chapstick
Well-Known Member
I thought all her 66P's got changed to -7. You mentioned P2PP and 6PP being -8
NightAntilli
Well-Known Member
I've been out of the loop for a while due to building my house and moving a bunch of times, so this might be true. It's actually a good change if it's the case.
A little overdue but here we go. I don't know names to all stances so I just call them what I refer to them as and hopefully you get the idea.
A blanket statement can be he has access to 2 in 1s on hit and guard, guaranteed damage on hit and guard, super heavyweight class forces juggle modification, chargeable CB (it gets even the best players), superior damage over the vast majority of the cast, a stun to launch game that few characters can match, forced guess hold situations, and matches take place in Dojo (anywhere else he gets 5-5s at worst except for 4-6 against Christie and Gen Fu, stage dependent) but I will put what edge the winning character has.
His biggest disadvantages are his speed and his guard breaks (yes, they are a disadvantage). His charged Guard Breaks require 42+ frames to charge to become positive and only his 44 frame 236P finishers grant him only one strike and only against a wall, making them extremely easy reads in stun and out of it. Uncharged and partially charged most of the GBs are -1, combined with his speed that puts him below any character on Block except Bass and Nyotengu. The biggest disadvantage of his chargeable strikes are that he can be thrown out of the strikes, even if just a simple input is used to use the strike as an uncharged strike (startup frames stay 0 until right before they go active).
Leon is a very underplayed character that has huge potential to be top tier, over the past two years the Leon community has found tech we never thought Leon was capable of and it has put him in a position to be reckoned with. I believe if enough people sit down with him long enough to get to his better tools they can start to see he is a significant threat to face in proper hands.
In actuality his "tier" fluctuates based on the environment, in some stages he gets (what could be argued 8-2s) more 7-3s than even Christie or Gen Fu. In Dojo type areas (Air Field and even Neo Tokyo) this list remains as stated below.
If I say a matchup is 5-5 it's because I see the match being able to go either way. If you believe it isn't and is favored in one way or the other, be specific but don't write entire essays on it. Make the point and move on as based on Dojo stages.
Leon vs:
Akira is an arguable 5-5 but I can see it remaining 4-6.
Alpha 5-5. Largely due to superior whiff punishment and damage overall. Arguable 6-4.
Ayane 5-5. Low OH and 7P reactions to BT transitions, a handful of strikes (one in particular is a kick that puts opponent into bound on Counter, is it 4H+K?), and her hold 3/1 spinspinspin stance.
Brad 6-4. Arguable 5-5 but Low OH on lay down and his (is it 4P?) bend over backwards stances is the biggest advantage.
Christie 4-6. Not as bad as made out to be before. Still a bad matchup but not 3-7 bad.
Eliot 6-4. A character with a Parry that has guaranteed options off them is not a 7-3 in any matchup.
Honoka 6-4, arguable 5-5. She kinda needs to be added to the list but she has superior speed but not much else as far as I know. I don't know much about her tools. Honoka players, tell me why it's 5-5, I don't see it as in her favor.
Jacky I believe is 5-5. Arguable to remain 4-6. My Jacky knowledge is not that great so this one is a welcome discussion.
Kokoro 6-4. If I ever said it was a 7-3 I don't know what I was thinking. Kokoro is a better character than people like to say. There are extremely few 7-3 matchups in this game and I would argue they only belong to Bass but he is also better than that.
Lisa I want to discuss. What does she have to make this a 5-5? I think it's 6-4 Leon because all I see that she has over Leon is her running stance mixups and her backflip mixups.
Rig stays 5-5. His best pressure is in Crane and in that are highs. 33P that shit.
Tina 5-5. 12 frame half health throw on explosive floors Hi Counter (when Bass' was nerfed to 16 frames). Not the real reason but a good one. Overall damage exchange puts her as even matchup.
Zack 5-5. Zack has superior speed and mixups. Another lack of knowledge one but playing against Gehaktbal at NEC has me thinking it's not 6-4.
A blanket statement can be he has access to 2 in 1s on hit and guard, guaranteed damage on hit and guard, super heavyweight class forces juggle modification, chargeable CB (it gets even the best players), superior damage over the vast majority of the cast, a stun to launch game that few characters can match, forced guess hold situations, and matches take place in Dojo (anywhere else he gets 5-5s at worst except for 4-6 against Christie and Gen Fu, stage dependent) but I will put what edge the winning character has.
His biggest disadvantages are his speed and his guard breaks (yes, they are a disadvantage). His charged Guard Breaks require 42+ frames to charge to become positive and only his 44 frame 236P finishers grant him only one strike and only against a wall, making them extremely easy reads in stun and out of it. Uncharged and partially charged most of the GBs are -1, combined with his speed that puts him below any character on Block except Bass and Nyotengu. The biggest disadvantage of his chargeable strikes are that he can be thrown out of the strikes, even if just a simple input is used to use the strike as an uncharged strike (startup frames stay 0 until right before they go active).
Leon is a very underplayed character that has huge potential to be top tier, over the past two years the Leon community has found tech we never thought Leon was capable of and it has put him in a position to be reckoned with. I believe if enough people sit down with him long enough to get to his better tools they can start to see he is a significant threat to face in proper hands.
In actuality his "tier" fluctuates based on the environment, in some stages he gets (what could be argued 8-2s) more 7-3s than even Christie or Gen Fu. In Dojo type areas (Air Field and even Neo Tokyo) this list remains as stated below.
If I say a matchup is 5-5 it's because I see the match being able to go either way. If you believe it isn't and is favored in one way or the other, be specific but don't write entire essays on it. Make the point and move on as based on Dojo stages.
Leon vs:
Akira is an arguable 5-5 but I can see it remaining 4-6.
Alpha 5-5. Largely due to superior whiff punishment and damage overall. Arguable 6-4.
Ayane 5-5. Low OH and 7P reactions to BT transitions, a handful of strikes (one in particular is a kick that puts opponent into bound on Counter, is it 4H+K?), and her hold 3/1 spinspinspin stance.
Brad 6-4. Arguable 5-5 but Low OH on lay down and his (is it 4P?) bend over backwards stances is the biggest advantage.
Christie 4-6. Not as bad as made out to be before. Still a bad matchup but not 3-7 bad.
Eliot 6-4. A character with a Parry that has guaranteed options off them is not a 7-3 in any matchup.
Honoka 6-4, arguable 5-5. She kinda needs to be added to the list but she has superior speed but not much else as far as I know. I don't know much about her tools. Honoka players, tell me why it's 5-5, I don't see it as in her favor.
Jacky I believe is 5-5. Arguable to remain 4-6. My Jacky knowledge is not that great so this one is a welcome discussion.
Kokoro 6-4. If I ever said it was a 7-3 I don't know what I was thinking. Kokoro is a better character than people like to say. There are extremely few 7-3 matchups in this game and I would argue they only belong to Bass but he is also better than that.
Lisa I want to discuss. What does she have to make this a 5-5? I think it's 6-4 Leon because all I see that she has over Leon is her running stance mixups and her backflip mixups.
Rig stays 5-5. His best pressure is in Crane and in that are highs. 33P that shit.
Tina 5-5. 12 frame half health throw on explosive floors Hi Counter (when Bass' was nerfed to 16 frames). Not the real reason but a good one. Overall damage exchange puts her as even matchup.
Zack 5-5. Zack has superior speed and mixups. Another lack of knowledge one but playing against Gehaktbal at NEC has me thinking it's not 6-4.
